~£500 for viewing from 4m with low judder/good motion processing

wutr

Novice Member
Hello everyone, first post but I have "lurked" for a long time and read the guides @Dodgexander has written.

TL;DR
My requirements in descending order of importance for a TV that's mounted about 50cm higher than ideal and with a 4m viewing distance.
  1. +/- £500 (or thereabouts)
  2. good motion processing
  3. good upscaling from 720p.
  4. HDR that can be turned off on individual HDMI ports
  5. reasonable performance in dark scenes
  6. Maximum 58"
The budget can increase if I don't "need" a soundbar, ie. if the audio quality is adequate, but is that ever the case?

I'm looking to replace a Sharp LC-37XD1E 1080p LCD that I was given for free about 5 years ago. I had it paired with an AV receiver and three speakers (front left, right, and center). In our new house we sit too far away from the TV. It is OK for TV series and films, but games that occasionally show text on the screen are not enjoyable because of the distance. I also find it has issues with motion judder/blur/processing which I have started to notice more and more. Last but not least, it doesn't handle dark scenes particularly well.

The AV receiver and speakers have gone (toddler liability) and the new TV will be wall mounted above a sofa. I will likely pair it with a soundbar with subwoofer to mount above it. It isn't ideal, but I'm hoping the viewing distance of 4m will make up for the increased height above eye level. If possible I'd like to get a high refresh rate VA panel to help with the motion issues, as I don't think I need a large viewing angle (IPS).

I understand HDR is not worth it at this price point and I would like to be able to turn it off on each HDMI port as I can use smart stuff via my Xbox one X. I don't watch terrestrial or SD content, but I mainly watch 720p and 1080p. For the distance I understand 4K is pointless but I may have no choice.

I would even consider a good quality used 1080p TV if they are still around.
 

tvdavid

Well-known Member
I would check any 50 inch TVs in budget from LG or Samsung.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
With cheaper TVs you tend to have to make a choice of panels between less motion blur but poorer dark room performance (IPS displays) or more motion blur and better dark room performance (VA).

Its hard to say without owning the TV, but most people are happy with motion on a VA panel, some people are more adverse to blur than others. If you feel like a VA panel is the way forward any 50" model will suit. Philips models and their P5 picture engine tend to have decent motion, but the Hisense U7Q is the standout for its HDR performance compared to other budget TVs (circa 750nits, local dimming). There's an argument to be made though that even then, the Hisense will fall short in some titles.
 

wutr

Novice Member
Thank you both for your input. I'm interested to hear why you recommend 50" over any other size. Is it to stay within budget, or does it have to do with the positioning of the TV? (above a sofa, about 4m away from where it will be viewed from). Or to do with the perceived quality of upscaled 720p/1080p content?
 
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tvdavid

Well-known Member
50 inch will most likely be a VA screen 49 inch IPS. unless the TV is a Sony XH95 but its much more. there some over Sonys that are VA and Doge will know.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Its to do with the panel type. 50" is always VA type, 49" tend to be IPS.

The recommended TVs are separated based on panel type here:

They are in order for best value (best>worst).

So for example, 50" Hisense U7Q is the best, but if you want a TV better with motion you could consider the 50" Philips models.

Decide on panel type first though, between IPS and VA. Should be explained in the guide.
 

wutr

Novice Member
I thought I was OK with a VA panel as the viewing angles will be very narrow, due to the distance from the TV. (As per one of the guides on here I read)

Maybe my motion perception is different to motion blur. I would describe it as judder maybe. It seems most prevalent in panning shots in car content like Top Gear or on YouTube.

At this price point, following the recommendations from @Dodgexander I think all TVs are 60Hz. Would IPS help over VA in this case, or does judder have nothing to do with panel type and only with motion processing algorithms?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Depends what you mean by judder, and what causes it. Some TVs have judder because they can't match the screen refresh rate with the film fresh rate. This is called 3:2 pulldown.

Some TVs have what's know as stutter, which is more constant and tends to be an issue more with TVs that have less, rather than more motion blur.

Some TVs have micro stutter which is a completely different problem, its best explained as irregular jumps or halts in motion.

If motion is a big concern then really you should consider looking at Philips or Sony models that do this best, other makes have more motion problems, and whilst they are not perfect, Philips and Sony have the edge over others.

But then again, a lot of people don't notice these problems even when they are there. I for one do not, so you may not too.
 

wutr

Novice Member
The only thing I really notice is the "judder" in panning shots in for example a car video on youtube when the camera follows the car driving past, I can see the "judder". I don't know which of the three (3:2 pulldown, stutter or micro stutter) this is :/ Maybe that says enough and anything will do :p
 

bydandie

Member
50 inch will most likely be a VA screen 49 inch IPS. unless the TV is a Sony XH95 but its much more. there some over Sonys that are VA and Doge will know.
49xH85/91 is also VA though?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
The only thing I really notice is the "judder" in panning shots in for example a car video on youtube when the camera follows the car driving past, I can see the "judder". I don't know which of the three (3:2 pulldown, stutter or micro stutter) this is :/ Maybe that says enough and anything will do :p
This usually isn't described as judder, but instead stutter. If you buy a TV that has longer response times (more motion blur) it will usually have more stutter. If you buy a TV that has shorter response times (less motion blur) you will notice stutter more.

Have a look at rtings.com reviews as they measure stutter, you'll see a trend in what I mean by comparing results there.
 

wutr

Novice Member
If you buy a TV that has longer response times (more motion blur) it will usually have more stutter. If you buy a TV that has shorter response times (less motion blur) you will notice stutter more.

I think something may have gotten mixed up there. Is it: longer response time == more stutter; shorter response time == less stutter?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I think something may have gotten mixed up there. Is it: longer response time == more stutter; shorter response time == less stutter?
No, its the opposite. At least on sample and hold displays.

That's why OLED TVs which have instant response times have more stutter, whilst low end LCD TVs, especially ones using VA panels have less stutter as they have longer response times.

There is of course irregular stutter, also know as 'micro stutter' which is reported on almost every TV to some degree, although the main culprits tend to be Panasonic, LG and Samsung compared to other brands.

Motion has so much too it you just aren't going to know how you get along with a TV until you own it, so whatever you choose, be sure you buy from a reputable retailer so you can return it if you have a problem.
 

wutr

Novice Member
Thanks again. It's all very helpful. Rabbit hole alert though!

@Dodgexander Talking about 49 and 50" TVs, it seems the Hisense U7Q is around £549. Comparing it to the following similarly priced models (some from your best buy guide):

LG 50UN7300 £429
SONY 49XH8096 £528 (XH80 over XH70 gets android TV for about £10 extra)
Philips 50PUS8535 £549 (in the Phillips overview the 85 series gets MDPro vs MD motion processing?)
SONY KD49XH8505 (100Hz panel) (ex display) £590

Is that still the one you'd recommend?

I can do as you say and test it for a while and return it if the judder is noticeable.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
The U7Q has a bug that requires the fast start setting to be disabled on the TV for it to remember your motion settings, either that or you have to turn motion settings on, then off (or off, on) depending on what you set each time you use the TV. Perhaps not a good choice if you want to avoid motion problems.

However in other respects its a lot better than the other TVs because it can get twice as bright and has local dimming allowing it to display some HDR content without troubles. Its for that reason that its top of the list. For similar prices of other TVs, it packs a lot higher specifications.

The other TVs may be better for different reasons/different people though. Perhaps HDR is something you intend to avoid on the TV, and instead you prefer a TV with better motion. In that case the Sony XH8505 you mentioned will be best, albeit wildly overpriced.
 

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