Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by buns, Mar 8, 2002.
too good for you to appreciate
If the centre is a match then thats the neatest option.
Or you could just get the pair of A1´s and only use one of them as I´ve heard running two centre speakers can be problematic due to cancellations,acoustics etc I´ve not tried it myself though!!
I´d go for the A4 centre myself, but its worth trying the two A1´s if you can.
Why dont you just use one A1 as your centre and use the other for your rear centre?
Buns, have you contacted Mountain Snow for the Celestion A range? Very good prices.
I'd be inclined to get a pair of A1's and use just 1 for the centre. I heard an A4c once. Ok, but like the What HiFi review ages ago, (one that I actually agree with ), the A1's do outclass it by a long way.
As a side note, I don't think there are any other Celestion A range users here. Odd that as I think they are really powerful cinema speakers, even if a bit of a demanding load.
Remember I said I tried my HiFi ones in my front room and they nearly blew the house apart? Talk about Full On!
We should promote them a bit more and get people away from KEF, B & W, Tannoy etc. For a Big Cinema experience, the A Series have it in abundance. If you have the space, give them a look I say.
I talked to my local dealer today and the suggestion was, as mentioned, that 2 centres may be problematic. Though the final verdict was somewhat biased towards the A4c option. To buy a pair and use one for center sounds fair to me, but that does leave me one spare. It could as suggested become a center rear, but for now i havent got that option, and further, what am i meant to do when i need stereo rears for discrete??
The price that drew my attention was movement audio.....http://www.movement-audio.co.uk/celestion.html, £450 for a pair of cherry A1's sounds tempting!
The main difficulty at the moment is the amplification, or lack of! Im running one pair of speakers of a marantz integrated, but anything further is tricky! The remainder of power is from only a yamaha A5.....which cant muster the power so at the moment one pair of A1's remains in their boxes.
Basically, im in need of a full system makeover and dont know where to start! Having seen this offer, i'm tempted to buy the match.....albeit requiring the new purchase to go into temporary storage!
So on the question at hand, a preliminary verdict would be to try a single A1 for the centre.
To fire a question towards the General...... what do you think is necessary to power the A1's? I had recently taken the idea to buy some second hand naim power amps, and biamp each A1 in this manner. Then add the likes of a tag when funds allowed. But having talked to my dealer, this was kinda thrown out by him. His opinion was to avoid the slight hotch potch i was suggesting in favour of simple the tag processor and the rotel 5 channel £900 thingy. He was fairly confident the sound would be comparable if not better........im not sure of the validity of this, otherwise why dont naim users all buy the rotel!? So what might you suggest.....given a possible total expenditure of £3k???
As far as the sound of the A1's goes.....there is no doubt that they are a level above the majority of the other solution used.....but a terrible load......i cant imagine many amplifiers dealing kindly to all 5 channels dipping to 1 or 2 ohms! But if your amplification can hack it, they are wonderful! The depth, clarity and imaging are fantastic when they really sing! They look the biz too!
just so no one gets the impression im rushing to do this at the weekend, all this is about 3 or 4 month scheme......but given the lack of equipment available in this area, it will take that time to sort it al out!
I will answer Buns, but I'm busy spending your money on power amps, my favourite topic. So far you owe about £4K.
To add problems.....the crt guys are getting into my head and im starting to have crt yearnings too!
I think my number one plan is to find a power amp to do justice to the A1's.....the naim 140's being my fave.....2nd hand unfortunately! Then attempt to find 3 of them in order to power the whole system. Then I will worry about the next step when i get to it!
I'm trapped by studentyness.....i need more money! I definitely think ratepayers on this forum should push to have grants reinstated!
please do not buy A1 (or more of them) as centre before trying them at home. Here's why: I do not know how Celestion designs their centre speakers but I know that most companies do it pretty different way then they do "normal speakers"
If you use normal speaker on a centre you might get a headache pretty fast. They simply might be too revealing for the centre!
And two centres might only increase this. On the other hand check well if you amp is capable of driving two of them on one channel, even if you have double speaker ports on its back.
Anyway be carefull, centre speaker that matches the others is in most cases much better choice then main one added once or twice more
Simply be very carefull here
I prefer the '5 identical speakers route'. I have 3 pairs of Epos ES11.
I've also tried 2 Epos ES11's side by side for the centre channel (wired in parallel and then in series). When they were side by side they sounded awful - all echoey. With about 6 inches between them they sounded much better - they clearly need more space though.
A dealer recomended that I run 2 centres one on either side of the TV with the front surrounds further out. I can't try this yet due to space constraints. If this does not work then I'll have to make space for my spare ES11 as a rear centre.
I was thinking about going the same route as you with Naim gear so that I can combine my music and av systems. I had in mind 2 NAP140's or 180's, one to run the front surrounds and the other to run the rears. I have a NAP250 which I am using for the fronts at the moment but which I will transfer to the centre channel as I'm sure the dialogue will benefit more from a better amp.
Biamping Naims is apparently difficult due to their cabling. There is a whole thread about using Naim amps if you do a search.
I actually have a spair pair of A1's (which will become rears) lying about, so I will have no problem testing the theory. I'm in the process of getting together some more serious amplification, the thought of running two centres of one channel was not my plan, rather to take the centre signal and feed it to 2 separate channels, thereby causing no excessive strain.
Until I get hold of a power amp in the next week or so, I cant try it out.
I know all about the other thread.....if you search under naim, most of the serious threads about them recently have me either starting or questioning! I have not investigated specifics of biamping, but to this point you are the first to mention a difficulty. What specifically is the problem so that i can question my dealer???
I think, upon discussion, the idea of dual centres is out. It is potentially difficult and certainly under my current set up, i beleive the benefits would be limited. A consideration for the future.....but on that point I had thought above and below the screen......i'd need to do some work on acoustics before i could comment.
I was on the prowl today checking out the amp status. It looks alot like I will be buying a 140 and 42.5 pre very shortly, possible a 180 if i can stretch to it!
Until I get hold of 2 more reasonably priced power amps, the question of precisely which speaker, is not answerable. So if any one spots second hand naim 140's or 90's at prices blow £350 and £250, please tell me about it!!
Well, it's a toughie.
Firstly though, I know you are keen on the Naim approach, so I'll just ignore it and add a few other ideas to the pot. I say that as Naim is a very specific flavour, nd if that's what you really want, then nothing else really matters.
I'm assuming the full £3K could be available here.
1. The NAD approach. They really do have the power! There is a THX amp at http://nadelectronics.com/Amp/218THX.html I think they retail at about £900 each. A trio would drive your speakers with ease. There is also a Silver series 5 channel amp there you may want to look at. Until your next upgrade, you could use your current integrated as a pre amp. I can vouch for NAD stuff, having an old 3020 amp, have played with many others from the range, they can produce heavy duty goods when needed. Their '30 Watts' for example are like Naim, much brawnier than people think!
2. The Parasound approach. At http://www.parasound.com/products/amplifiers/images/hca2205atsm.jpg or http://www.parasound.com/products/amplifiers/images/hca1205asm.jpg Both of these amps are in my top 5 as it were. Good prices too. You'd have money for a goodish proc.
3. Bryston. At http://www.bryston.ca/9bstcov.html I think everyone would agree this really is the one to get. I heard it at the Event driving a whole bunch of B&W speakers - with ease!!! Top quality stuff. Ok it may nudge you over £3K, but it'd be worth it without a doubt. IMHO the No.1 amp to get if you ever had the chance.
Rotel you know about. Naim you know about. What about a few other often overlooked ones like-
TAG (2nd hand Audiolab?)
Or, I even look at www.densen.dk too as I use their HiFi Beat 100MKII for music. Their amps are very Naim - like apparantely. It drives my A1's very well, no strain. Their power amps go for £1K now I think. But they do have multi channel amps in the pipeline.
I know I've ignored the processor side as you're immediate need is power. If yuo are going to upgrade to that level, make the most your money and buy really high quality one step at a time.
As for CRT, good luck, once you go down that route wave good bye to your wallet.
well the naim route seems to be the way i am going. I had a listen to a stereo combination, there is no doubt that is is the sound i want. I dont rate the rotel in any wayt comparatively, its not a patch on the sound i heard!
I dont know where i will be led to eventually.....but for the money i cant see past a number of naim power amps.....giving the opportunity to upgrade a long way! It gives the potential to have say a 140 driving each of 7 channels.....thats going to cost less than 3K in total. I havent heard the bryston or anything else of integrated origin at that price, but I question whether it would manage to match a fully biamped naim system!
I would argue that in this application the Bryston would far exceed the Naim. It is actually a modular amp, ie, independent power supplies within the case. Very, very high quality stuff.
Call them for an info pack. They include a 'book' with all the reviews on their kit. Very interesting reading.
HCC did a special edition on it in 2000 I think.
HE love it too.
Ask Gordon for his opinion on it too.
As for power available, the Bryston will definately be a pile driver for what you want. Bryston actually measure each channel independently and tell you each channel's output. They are run in for you and come with a 20 year guarantee!
140 watts into 8ohm and 200 watts into 4 ohm. These are real figures with low distortion with 'all' channels driven.
Worth a listen maybe?
Having said all that, It'd be interesting to see how the Naim route pans out.
I cant deny what you say, it is a lovely neat route that could sound fantastic, but at the moment its a no go. It will be some months before i could muster the cash to go for a bryston, at which point i would be running it bloted onto a yamaha A5.....not exactly audio nirvana!
I would love a listen.....but im pretty sure that my local wont be gettting one in just for me to try for future reference! I'm pretty happy with the sound of the naim anyway and at low cost, so i think thats where i will stay. Incidentally, I considered a similar approach with linn, but somehow it didnt suit my tastes.
So I'm now definitely on the prowl for 2nd hand naim power amps.....buy a couple more on the cheap then hopefully can look forward to a processor to run it all off. The tag looks the most likely candidate.....but thats some way down the line yet!
I have rightly been put on hold about buying up more A1's.....no point in having them if i cant drive them! So anyone wanting to sell old naim amps......
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