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£350 for a sub - what are the options?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by evildonut, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Hey all, further to my previous post, my mate has gone for the m74i to complement his m7c2 and m7ds... but I think he's caught the upgrade bug!

    He's really impressed with the m74i's performance so far - mind you, after his 80's style Technics it's not a big surprise :blush:, and he wants the bass to go even deeper, so he's all game for a sub now.

    I reckon the use of his system is 2/3 movies 1/3 music, and his budget is of £350.

    Immediate candidates are the Rel Quake and MJA Pro50, but both seem to get mixed reviews...

    What do you guys think? Is there anything else I should add to the list?

    Thanks,
     
  2. Big Adam

    Big Adam
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    In addition to the usual suspects, I've seen the Kef PSW3000 available for £350 new.

    The Kef subs which came with the original 2005 package got a bad rap but once you get into the bigger units, I tthink things improve considerably.

    The PSW3000 is a COMPLETELY different animal from the new (and highly rated) PSW2010 which comes with the new Kef 2005.2 system.

    I asked Ben at Kef support on the relative merits of each and got this reply:

    Finding a dealer with the PSW3000 in stock will be tricky but if you can give it a listen then add it to your audition list. For a sub that was originally £600, £350 is a bargain.......oh and for pose value, it's remote control so no more getting up from armchair to alter levels!

    Big A
     
  3. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    You might want to look into the velodyne cht-10 for £325. It blows the rel quake away imo and will be hard to beat at this price point. It performs admirably with both movies and music offering a good lower end for those pant flapping movie moments.

    I've just noticed someones selling one for £250 s/h in the classifieds section on these forums a bargain imo.
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    BK Electronics may not be the first name on everyone's lips as subwoofer manufacturers but they must rank very high in the manufacturing stakes as they make for quite a number of other people.

    They also make a few of their own which are amongst the most cost effective subs that you can buy as there is no huge advertising and marketing bill to pay for.

    Have a look here to see what £279 buys you
     
  5. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Hi Ian,

    Indeed £279 seems to get you some interesting kit!!!

    But as you mentioned, I have neverheard of these fellas, and seeing as they come from a professional angle it's not surprising...

    How do you know of them? Have you tried some of their kit before?
     
  6. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Stick mission's M5AS on that list...



    Would match the rest of the Mission Kit rather well I'd think...
     
  7. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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  8. overfloe

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    add £50 on top of the MJ pro 50 and you'll get a Reference 100 ;)
     
  9. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Just in case people think that I am ignoring evildonut, I answered by PM :p
     
  10. MuFu

    MuFu
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    That'd definitely be worth doing if you have your heart set on the Pro 50, but the BKE sub is far superior and cheaper. Gets my vote too.

    :smashin:

    evildonut, I have something very similar and don't believe it can be beaten for the price. Even at twice the price it'd still be the best compact sub I have heard...

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76601

    The Velodyne CHT-10 is also worth a look if your budget is £350 and you don't mind something a bit bigger.

    MuFu.
     
  11. juboy

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    If you have £350 and want a branded sub, the Velodyne CHT-10 is as good as you're going to get - and it's pretty damn good too.

    Ian's recommendation of the BK Electronics subs is also worth paying close attention to.
     
  12. tan1415

    tan1415
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    Agree with recommmendations mentioned. Basically the BKE is like a DIY subpackage..but they have finished the kit together. The woofers and amp used are highly rated items in DIY. VIFA and Hypex.
     
  13. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Thanks for everything guys, after doing a bit of research on the forum I've decided to recommend the BKE in the end, and my mate has just placed the purchase!

    I'll keep you posted on the results, as I'm likely to come round and help him out for setting it up...

    Thanks again!
     
  14. MuFu

    MuFu
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    Excellent choice. :smashin:

    One word of advice - don't toggle the LFE switch when the unit on because it goes *BANG*. :D

    MuFu.
     
  15. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Thanks for the advice MuFu!:smashin:

    Whilst we're at it, I have little experience with subs - I once demoed a Rel Strata III over a couple of days and I just could't get it right -, do you guys have any tips for setting it up?
     
  16. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Hey guys,

    I'm at my mate's trying to set it up, but nothing happens :(

    On the amp end, I have one phono out and that's it. Setupwise all I had to do was redirecting the bass to the sub only. The amp is a Yam 630 BTW.

    On the sub end, I've plugged the phono lead, set the phase to zero and the frequency to the max (120), and I've tried the high & low level volume at min & max - to no avail.

    I can't use the speakon cable, as the other end of thecable has got three bare wires (L/R/Negative), and I've got nowhere to plug them :(

    Do I need another cable? Is the sub busted? Am I missing something stupid? Aaaaaaargh!!
     
  17. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Presumably there is power getting to the sub.

    You only need to connect a single phono from the sub out on the amp to an input on the sub but if the amp has previously set to "no sub" you will have to change that.
     
  18. MuFu

    MuFu
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    If you're going to use the receiver's bass management, make sure the unit is off and then turn the "FREQUENCY" dial all the way round so it clicks. This disables the crossover completely. Set the low-level gain to about 1/4 turn to begin with. Leave the high-level gain at zero.

    Does the red LED come on when you switch the sub on? If you want to check the unit isn't faulty you can hook any source up to the low-level input just for testing purposes.

    Edit - actually I'm not sure whether the BSB200 has a power LED on it or not. Mine does but it's a slightly different model.

    MuFu.
     
  19. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Hey guys,

    It works!!! Oh boy, what a beauty - the amp was playing up and wasn't sending any info to the sub. A good ol' restart solved it :)

    MuFu, I did as you mentioned - frequency all the way and low level at a quarter is about right.

    When it first worked I was next to the sub whilst a rocket was launched on screen. Needless to say, I was thrown to the other end of the room!!!

    Thanks guys, I appreciate!
     
  20. MuFu

    MuFu
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    Cool, glad you got it sorted. :cool:

    Like I said, with the Frequency dial in that position disables the crossover so the sub responds to all frequencies. This is a good starting point, but you might want to experiment with the LFE mode off and the dial in different positions - the crossover network acts as a frequency contouring circuit and boosts low frequencies to help acheive a flatter reponse in the lower register.

    I have my crossover set at 80Hz (I think those Yamaha receivers are fixed at 90Hz - could be wrong) and I find that the 12 o'clock position on the Frequency dial gets the most out of the sub and integrates nicely with the mains. Just be careful the sub isn't bottoming out/running out of cone movement in passages with a lot of sub-sonic content (Titan AE ice field etc). You might want to experiment a little with the phase dial as well, but I am yet to find a situation where anything other than 0 degrees is beneficial.

    Not bad for £280, huh? :D

    MuFu.
     
  21. evildonut

    evildonut
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    That's correct, the Yam output at 90 Hz. The frequency is at about 12 as well. The volume is a bit more tricky to adjust tho, there's a bit of trial and error there...

    I must admit, I struggle to hear/feel a difference whilst playing with the phase too.

    Testwise, we watched Daredevil afterwards, in its full DTS glory... woaaaah baby, the BKE definitely showed its talent there, i.e. it shook the room but the bass was tight like a vice!

    You betcha! My wife was there as well, and even she enjoyed it! :eek: Shame we live in a flat :(

    Thanks again!!
     
  22. Chester

    Chester
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    That's funny! I'm also looking at replacing my Schhhiiiiitttte Sony sub for something in that price range (£350, but possibly extending to the £500 for the Q150 if it is really that good as the webschite makes it out to be).

    My system comprises of:
    Arcam AVR100 (soon to be replaced hopefully)
    Acoustic Energy AE109 floorstanders

    The room is about 10 1/2' X 16'.

    Anybody make any recommendations?

    BTW... That BK sub looks very similar to a REL Q200, and probably not too far away in spec either. Is there much difference? If not, that's probably what I'll go for.

    In the meantime, I've just picked up [today] a Q150 to try at home. At least then I've got sort of benchmark/starting point for comparison.

    Cheers ;)
     
  23. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Don't believe everything that you read on a website. The BK website is very amateurish but it's subwoofers are not
     
  24. evildonut

    evildonut
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    Chester,

    After listening to the BKE I'd wholeheartedly recommend one! Pretty good price and understated looks, but it sounds like a million...:smashin:
     
  25. MuFu

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    They're a similar kind of package. IMHO, the BK sub is superior - noticeably better extension and perhaps a slight edge as far as overall output level goes (hard to tell without a side-by-side comparison though). The finish is much smarter too - again just my opinion.

    If you can afford a Q200E I think it's worth spending £50 extra on a B&W ASW675.

    MuFu.
     
  26. Chester

    Chester
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    I've had a test run of the REL Q150, and you can have a read of that here.

    The BK may just be the thing to go for. Can I expect it to deliver the goods like the Q150 did?
     
  27. Ian J

    Ian J
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    From what I have heard the Q150 is a hugely over rated subwoofer with a performance level that can be surpassed by a number of cheaper products and the BK should definately be one of them.
     
  28. MuFu

    MuFu
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    No!!! I've heard the Q150 in the same room as my old Q100E and the BKE XLS-10 I have at the moment. It was set up in a bit of a hurry but still - evidently the worst of the bunch by a fair margin.

    The BK sub *just about* gets you into the kind of performance range where you can hear almost nothing yet doors rattle, walls vibrate, people upstairs think there's a minor earth tremor etc. That's something I never noticed to any great extent with the Q100E or the Q150 and is a nice taster of what's possible with more expensive subs.

    MuFu.

    P.S. If you can stretch to £500, there are a number of options available that by all accounts should outclass these subs - Paradigm Servo 15, a s/h Velodyne CHT-15 etc.
     
  29. Chester

    Chester
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    Wow! Big difference in opinion.

    MuFu, it sounds like you were running far too much gain and not quite enough frequency. I did find that when setting up the Q150, you need time to listen to low bass in music so you can hear the notes cross over to the main speakers, and don't overlap too much or you just end up with mud. Too low a cut-off, you just get either nothing, or huge vibration without any real purpose. And then the gain should be set-up so it integrates well with the rest of your system without swallowing the performance.

    Of course, if you're trying to say that all it's good for is rumbling, then I'll steer clear. But I can't believe that all it wants to do is rip doors off of the wall. It's a sealed enclosure after all, not ported for pushing massive quantities of air like my bass guitar rig is! :)
     
  30. MuFu

    MuFu
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    No amount of careful setting up is going to be able to overcome an inherent failure to reproduce sub-30Hz content without intrusive levels of distortion. Of course, no compact sub under £750 is good in this respect but some are better than others - I doubt I'm alone in thinking the Q150 is a fine mid-bass machine but struggles with the very lowest frequencies.

    MuFu.
     

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