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£2.5k setup? Samsung 1080i DVD?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by robbo24, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. robbo24

    robbo24
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    Hello,

    I'm another newbie poster so please be gentle with me ;) .
    About xmas time I'm looking to buy a Pj (my first) , screen and maybe a new DVD player as my panasonic A350 is looking a little aged after about 5years. My budget is up to 2.5k (including screen pulldown or electric)sound system I have already. Maybe stretch to a little more if signifcantly better, although any money less will be wisely invested in DVDs. It would be mainly used for watching DVDs about 75% Sky 20% PS2 5%.

    I think I want to go down the LCD route as when veiwing with freinds i would everybody to be able to enjoy and am a little worried about rainbows/headaches ect.. with DLP.
    I dont really want to go down the HTPC route either, well not yet anyway.

    Ive also been reading about the Samsung HD935 dvd player which supposedly outputs 1080 lines via DVI but the display device has to be HDCP? compatible? Would there a PJ that would benifit from this player?

    planning to maybe audition a HS10 and a Panny500 what else do i need to consider?, All replies greatfully recieved as i'm currently a little out of touch with the latest gear. ( will be swotting up before Xmas)

    cheers, Dave.
     
  2. GrahamC

    GrahamC
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    Just got the HD935 to go with the Sanyo Z2 I have on order.:)
     
  3. chris l.

    chris l.
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    I'm also new to PJ and I've just ordered the Sanyo PLV-Z2, which is a very good spec LCD projector for the price.

    I'm now toying with the idea of feeding it with a Denon DVD2200 (PAL and NTSC progressive via component) and have the benefit of DD,DTS, CD,R,RW DVD-A/D and SACD etc fed to my AMP) (£520 in total inc multiregional)

    or

    a Samsung DVD935 with DVI fed 480i/p, 720p 1080i (PAL progressive also) to Sanyo and digital fed DD DTS to my amp and also have a Pioneer 565 for NTSC progressive via component to Sanyo and DD,DTS, CD,R,RW DVD-A/D and SACD to my amp. (£364 in total, inc multiregional)

    The DVI feeds a digital direct in to the Sanyo with no digital /analogue conversion / loss in pic quality. But Samsung is noted (spec'd as HD931 in USA) as excellent in DVI mode but not so good in component mode etc. Thought the HD935 has just won the EISA DVD player of the year!.

    For a screen look at http://www.drhscreens.co.uk/index.html. I have just ordered the slimline (manual) 203 x 152, 4.3 screen (I can then feed NTL digital in 4.3 form also to the projector and many broadcasts / old films are 4.3 also). Remember the width of the screen is the limiting factor. If you get 4.3 screen you get a big image with 4.3 and when showing a 16.9 image, you only use a proportion of the height of the screen. If you went for a 16.9 screen and tried to display a 4.3 image you will be limited by the height of your screen when in 4.3 mode and have borders to the left and right of the image. Though if you will only feed modern DVD films to the projector then 16.9 will be ok.

    Have a look at http://www.projectorcentral.com for models, advise and projection distances / screen size help etc.

    Regards,

    Chris L.
     
  4. uczmeg

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    DVI is the way to go if you can.

    Obviously nothing is known about the Z2 capabilities yet, but having seen other projectors fed a DVI signal it has won by a mile over a VGA, component or s-video one.

    I know on my 1280x720 projector (which is the Z2 res) is, using the Samsung 935 in 720p mode gives a 1:1 pixel mapping and looks great!

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  5. Kramer

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    I can't follow your "a 4:3 screen is better" logic :confused:

    The only thing I can imagine is you're going to "zoom" your 16:9 panel "picture" to fill the screen width-wise for 4:3 material. This would result in 920x720 pixels actually being used. If I'm correct in my assumption, you'll have overspill on both sides :confused:

    IMO having a 4:3 ratio screen with a 16:9 panel projector is pointless.



    Up to £2.5k I'd suggest looking at models such as the HS10 (replacement HS20 due soonish), Z2, AE500 & possibly the HT1000 - DLP & XGA but a fabulous projector.

    I reviewed it recently here.

    :smoke:
     
  6. uczmeg

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    Kramer,

    I can see your argument against 4:3 screens. However I can't see how much different it is to watching 2.35:1 films on a 16:9 screen.

    I have a 16:9 screen yet a majority of the stuff I watch doesn't fill that as it seems most movies I own are 2.35:1.

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  7. Kramer

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    I agree lots of material doesn't even fill a 16:9 ratio screen but Chris is saying that he'll be able to "fill" his screen with 4:3 material. Only way I can see this happening is by zooming the Z2 with overspill on both sides :confused:

    Not alone does this seem very inconvenient, but he'll be left with an 8' wide picture at a resolution of 960x720 - less than XGA. Considering he'll be viewing mainly (relatively) low res material in 4:3 I for the life of me can't see the logic?

    The irony is I use a 4:3 ratio screen with my 16:9 HS10, but that's another story :)
     
  8. chris l.

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    Kramer,

    I don't think I made myself as clear in writing as it is in my head, so I've cheated and copied the anology used on projector central as below.

    Basically, a single 4.3 screen gives you the biggest screen sizes when viewing a mix of both 4.3 and 16.9 material.

    QUOTE - "Consider this for a moment. Most people will install the widest possible screen they can fit into the space available, regardless of its format. Screen width is almost always the limiting factor. For example, in my theater space I had two choices. I could install a 16:9 screen that was 8 feet wide, or a 4:3 screen that was 8 feet wide. If I installed a 16:9 screen it would be 8 feet wide and 4.5 feet high. But if I installed a 4:3 screen, it would be 8 feet wide and 6 feet high. The 8-foot width is limited by the room; the screen height is my option.

    Now between these two options, how big is my 4:3 image? On the 4:3 screen it is 8 x 6 = 48 square feet. On the 16:9 screen, it would have been 6 x 4.5 = 27 square feet. That's almost half the size! And that's the difference between being at the Eagles concert and seeing it on television.

    Meanwhile—and here is a key point—my 16:9 image size is the same either way— 8 x 4.5 = 36 square feet. So the only variable is how I want to display 4:3. Do you want to maximize the use of your wall space? The 4:3 screen gives you more viewing area since it uses more vertical space on the wall.

    I would never give up seeing the great classic films or music videos in the largest format I can manage. Especially if it was for a reason as nonsensical (to me) as making sure that all of my 4:3 material was displayed in a "smaller" format than a widescreen movie. So the bottom line is this: I personally don't believe that a 4:3 image should be smaller than a 16:9—I'm a Big Picture guy and I want them both as big as I can fit on the wall. In my case, that means they are both eight feet wide.

    Now. You may feel like I'm completely full of hooey. You may like 4:3 material in smaller format, and the widest regions of your screen reserved for widescreen material. And if you do, then by all means go with your gut. We are talking about YOUR entertainment here. The real purpose of this discussion is to get you to think about what you want to see and how you want to see it. Then set it up the way you want it. There is no "right" solution. There is only the right solution for you." - QUOTE

    I'm new to PJ (a 2 week learning curve so far) so if I'm missing something please point it out to me.

    Regards,

    Chris L.
     
  9. ReTrO

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    Provided you don't mind re-zooming your picture each time you switch between 16:9 and 4:3 material, and the projetcor has enough zoom range then this is acheivable.

    16:9 native projectors are designed for fixed height screens though, whereas 4:3 projectors work to fixed width, which would seem to be more appropriate for you.
     
  10. chris l.

    chris l.
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    I think I may be learning something a little to late here.

    I have been using "http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator.cfm?part_id=2239" to work out the throw / screen size and assumed that as it allowed me to set the throw to 3.62m and switch between 16.9 / 4.3 that the projector was capable of doing this. The resulting screen size of 203cm x 152cm being the one I have ordered from DRH Screens.

    I assumed that it would be a simply a flick of a switch / press of a remote control key to change between 16.9 & 4.3. I'm now assuming it will be a case of getting out the step ladders and reaching up to the ceiling and manually zooming each time I want 4.3 to fill the screen or I leave it alone and make do with a smaller 4.3 using only the middle 2/3rds of the screen (height wise) and have side borders also.

    I think my learning curve just got steeper.

    Chris L.:confused:
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    There are very few PJ's (16:9) with enough zoom capability to do what you want...and that are remote controlled. Yamaha's DLP is one. In fact, it's the only one I could find. You also need to have lens shift capability to do this trick as most fixed pixel devices have a shallow angle of projection. This means that as you zoom the image the height it appears on the screen shifts too.

    Using a 4:3 screen with a 16:9 projector, if you had one that fitted that criterion, would give you the biggest 4:3 image. It would, as has been mentioned, also give you the biggest image with the lowest quality source (4:3 BROADCAST tv). Blowing poor quality sources up to large viewing areas seems a bit silly to me.

    Gordon
     
  12. Noger

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    Will be posting my HD935 + HS20 thoughts this evening (if the couriers get their act together) :)

    chrisl - most pj's have a zoom on the remote AFAIK (I only found mine after wondering what the LENS button did) :rolleyes:
     
  13. chris l.

    chris l.
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    I'm in luck, DRH Screens will send me a 16.9 screen today instead of the 4.3 i initialy ordered. Sanyo PLV-Z2 in native 16.9 and only has manual zoom and so I didn't fancy geting the step ladders out evey time I changed 16.9 to 4.3.

    Look forward to your feedback Noger on the HD935 (ordered one today myslef) How far will you be runing the dvi feed. Trying to find out if 935 it will send DVI circa 15m without loss of quality as read have writen 7.5m / 10m is limit for dvi.

    Chris L.
     
  14. Noger

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    7.5m is the theoretical limit AFAIK. I am running 5m. But there are plenty of posts suggesting work-arounds if you have a search around.
     
  15. Peter Parker

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    Another point of view in the 4:3 16:9 debate - I feel that movies should always be bigger than tv viewing. If Coronation St is much bigger than a blockbuster movie, then the movie will lose it's impact. :)

    4:3 movies are in a minority, so with my pj I have the option of either zooming the image digitaly in exactly the same way as a widescreen tv, or I can use the non linear stretch. Final resort is to have the 4:3 in the middle of the 16:9 area with black bars either side. More often than not, I'll use the zoom function, as I can also move the image up and down so that I'm not looking at a center strip in the middle, but a little higher (doesn't cut the heads of so much).

    Sports are another matter of course, so the same zoom/stretch options still apply, but in my case, I watch DVDs 99% of the time.

    Just my opinion of course. :)

    Gary.
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The lower the resolution signal going down DVi the further it can go. The lower the quality of cable the shorter it can go.

    It's not so much quality as amount. IE If there is not enough signal there is NO picture. You might get an on the edge sparkly image but usually it's all or nothing


    Gordon
     
  17. chris l.

    chris l.
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    Gordon,

    Any particular makes of dvi cable noted as being beter than others ?

    It goes without saying that I will be aming for 720p / 1080i from my Samsung HD935 to Sanyo PLV-Z2, fingers crossed.

    I think I have to be realistic and move the 935 nearer the projector. Any limit on the length of a digital coax / optical lead back to the amp ?

    Chris
     
  18. GrahamC

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    Chris
    You and I are going for the same setup, are you going to use the DVI cable that came with the player or are you going to use another?
     
  19. Kramer

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    Nope, most don't!

    Very few actually offer motorised zoom/focus below £3k - the Sonys being the exception.
     
  20. Kramer

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    I've seen "sparklies" - look like mis-firing pixels quite a few times with overlength/poor quality DVI cables.

    7.5m certailnly seems to be the limit @ 1366x768/56Hz (HS10's res) but as Gordon says, depends on many factors - graphics card/DVD player output, resolution/refresh rate etc...
     
  21. ReTrO

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    Theoretically you can't go above 1280x1024 on a single feed DVI connection, which is what most DVI equipped pj's have. The JVC SX-21 has this but can support 1400x1050p fine. :D
     
  22. Kane D Williams

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    Hi chaps

    WoW, it's been so long since I've been actively researching AV stuff and hanging out here and over at AVS, but since my PJ has packed in AGAIN, I've decided to look for another and think I will go for the Sanyo Z2 as it sounds goos for the cash!

    I also like the sound of the Samsung DVD935, but can't find any info. Where can I read about this player and can I buy one in the UK or Europe? What is the price? I already have a nice Tosh SD950E which I paid £1200 for when it was 1st out (I was 1st in country to own one I think), and I will keep this one as well and just have the Samsung sat next to the Z2 running at 720p!!!

    Any help is appreciated - it's good to be back!!!!
     
  23. Kane D Williams

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    What is the difference between the Samsung DVD935 & HD931?
     
  24. GrahamC

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    Hi Kane,

    You can buy the HD935 from here Samsung HD935

    I'm not sure as to the difference between 931 and 935, some say it's the same but US/Europe but there are referances to the 935 being sold in US late November so....:confused:
     
  25. Kane D Williams

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    Thanks, I can't believe it is that cheap!

    It states on that site that it has DVD-A decoding, but I have not read any mention of this before, so is it true? Is it any good? I will still probably use my SD900E. Also, the US HD931 has DCDI processing, does the HD935?

    May be these are the differences, the 935 has DVD-A and no DCDI and the 931 visa-versa??
     
  26. Noger

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    Hmmmmmm. HD935 and HS20 talking via DVI. 5m Lindy cable.

    No problems, worked first time.

    Yes, much better blacks (so much so that I had to step down the black enhancement on the PJ).

    Yes, better colours. More realistic tones.

    Yes, much more detail.

    But .... there is some really awful edging/shadow on "dark-on-light" areas.

    Particularly bad on Gladiator, where our Russell is pictured against the sky. Almost like a bad TV reception, with a ghosting on the edge.

    Really noticable. And once you see it you just can't stop looking for it. S-Video was more watchable !

    Could be something in my set-up, so am going to have to have a search around for some clues.

    And yes, it is quite a "clunky" unit and the remote is poor, but coming from my Phillips 712 I am used to that sort of thing, and could forgive the cheapness if the picture worked OK.
     
  27. GrahamC

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    Somebody has posted that Lindy only sells computer DVI cables as against AV DVI cables. Now I post that statement as is, as all this DVI cable malarky is getting VERY confusing :confused:

    Have we any thoughts on the Component connections on the HD935. Have to agree with the way the HD935 takes its own sweet time about doing things. :rolleyes:
     
  28. ReTrO

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    DVI is DVI for what that matters, if you're only sending digital video down it there's no difference. You can of course get many makes of DVI cables, screened, unscreened, single data and double data ones (mosts PJ's only use the single ones, but no harm in running a twin cable).

    I have a 5m lead from Keenes (unscreened, double data feeds), that I have used very successfully from my HCPC to a JVC SX-21, 1400x1050p 60hz.
     
  29. GrahamC

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    So can I drive a computer TFT screen with DVI from my Samsung then?
     
  30. ReTrO

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    Probably, best to check before buying anything though. Provided ou don't need any HDCP stuff at either end.
     

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