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‘Magical’ speaker correction?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Peter, Dec 18, 2001.

  1. Peter

    Peter
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    In the search to improve my speaker performance, I came across a company called Perpetual Technologies (http://www.perpetualtechnologies.com) who produce a device which seems very interesting. They claim that by putting their device between the digital source and the DACs, they will re-clock the digital input to remove jitter and “other digital artifacts”, and “correct the phase and frequency response of your speakers to near-perfection over your speakers' useful bandwidth”. They have downloadable algorithms for most speakers, or offer a facility to calibrate it yourself. They even claim to be able to correct problems in the room itself, and all for approx. US$1,500.

    Impressive claims; has anyone heard of them or had any experience with their products?
     
  2. Reiner

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    No personal experience but there are also companies which offer little magnets to be put around your cars fuel hose and promise less consumption - if you believe in it and you are willing to part with your hard earned cash.

    Well, I guess to really know means to try, but I would rather invest the money in a new DAC or better speakers.
     
  3. Peter

    Peter
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    That's the whole point of this device; to avoid having to buy more expensive speakers etc. by getting better performance from your existing kit. Take a look at their site for more info, but some independants seems to think it has value: Stereophile (January 2001) Does on in-depth, 8-page review of the P-1A/P-3A including comparative lab measurements and extensive listening tests. Bottom line: they loved these products, and in April 2001 rated it a Class A product. There are other reviews on the PT site, but as you'd expect they're all favourable.

    Anybody got any real-world experience of this or similar stuff they'd care to share?
     
  4. Couch Potato

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    Peter, are you the same Peter in HK who posts on the TAG site? If so if you've got the DVD32R and the AV32R can you get the jitter any lower than this combo using sync-link?

    As far as room correction is concerned have you seen TACT TCS, there was a detailed report in Stereophile magazine here a couple of months ago or TACT's site here, dont know personally if it works but if you're not able to play with acoustics using acoustic treatments it might be worth looking at.

    HTH

    Steve
     
  5. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    A 'friend' had one of these for evaluation a while ago, he wasn't impressed at all, jitter and all that. What it is proposing is a good idea but it needs to be implemented better. Don't bother if you have Tag.
     
  6. Peter

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    Steve, I am that very Peter from HK! To be truthful I'm scratching in the dark a little here: I'm not interested in lowering jitter between the TAG boxes, but looking for a way to optimise what comes out of my speakers, especially in the bass. I bought top notch hardware from TAG, spent stupid money on cables, and bought quality speakers from B&W, and for music, I'm feeling short changed by what reaches my lug 'oles (particularly unimpressed by the bass control). I'm using B&W N-802's for goodness sake: surely I can get some decent welly from them!

    I have a horrible suspicion that I bought the wrong amp (TAG 5x100R) - I can't help feeling it's too underpowered for my needs. When I heard the N-802's with bigger amps at demo, they sounded terrific. At home with the TAG, they don't.

    Trawling through the web I came across a review of the PT gear with the N-802, and the conclusion was impressive, so I'm wondering if this will be a cheaper solution I could try. Otherwise, it looks like I'm going to have to ditch the TAG amp and buy a couple of big buggers. Looking at the specs of the 250x3R it doesn't seem to match up with the specs of others in the same price range, so I'll audition it when a unit gets to HK (sometime in January) . Unfortunately, here the dealers won't let you take a unit out of the shop unless you buy it, and once you've done that there's no way you'll get a refund, so home audition isn't possible here.

    I'll certainly follow up the review you suggested, thanks. By the way, B&W have refrained from blaming the amp when I've quizzed them about this, but they're hinting strongly that it ain't man enough for the job. They also suggested that I look at room acoustics, which is how I got to the PT site.

    Mr Rhodes; I'd be interested to swap notes with your 'friend' - any way of making contact?

    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  7. Couch Potato

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    Peter,

    I would be supprised if the 250x3R isn't man enough for the job however if you feel it isn't have you looked at Bryston. Awesome amps with 20 year warranty's and they are allegedly well matched to the B&W Nautilus family. Brystons website is here

    Let us know how you get on with the 250x3R
    HTH

    Steve
     
  8. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Peter

    unfortunately the friend runs a rival hifi company hence the punctuation around the friend. He shipped a unit in from the states to look at the technology but when they played with it they found it wanting though they were obviously interested. The person involved is someone I trust and he gives where praise is due and regularly tests the competition to make sure his company is competitive. If he found a great product he does / will tell me but given a few months it is generally leap frogged by his gear!

    The kit you mentioned added quite a bit of jitter and made the sound worse though it did improve some aspects, re a Tag sync locked set up it made things much worse.

    Your situation isn't too dissimmilar to my own where my new Kef Ref 4-2 need more driving than my old Posselts. The Posselts were driven by SE 300B valve amps!

    The new speaker needs a serious driving force much like the 802 (which I have used in at least one demo looking for new amps). I am currently using two channel of my Tag amp. I am actively looking at new amps. I think the Tag amp is very good quality and is more than enough for 95% of most needs however both of us are in the 5% with more difficult speaker loads hence Tag new amps? I have yet to hear them however. I have experimented with bi amping with the current Tag and this was beneficial. Something to try over christmas?

    To date I have tried Bryston, Parasound, Rotel, Classe, Bonnec (special) and I hope to try the new Tag asap. The Bryston was equivalent quality to the Tag, the Parasound not quite as good. The Rotel was outclassed (but great value). The Classe was very good (and worked well bi amped) and the Bonnec was excellent. I have also had good results from the Audio Synthesis.

    There is definately benefit with a better amp re these speakers and I would concentrate your efforts here.
     
  9. Peter

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    Nic, I think I've reached the same conclusion: I need more amp power. I already bi-amp the N-802's with the 100x5R; it was always my intent to do this when I bought the gear (spare channel goes to HTM2 centre), and use separate amps for the rear channels in HT. Bi-amping definitely makes a difference, but unfortunately not enough. I heard the speakers with Classe monoblocs attached to them in the B&W distributor showroom in Hong Kong, and they were spectacular. I heard them with Brystons in a dealer shop, but was less impressed. To be truthful, I haven't truly heard a comparable demo as the amps were different powers and the listening facilities were varied, to say the least - very hard to find dealers here who carry a full range of higher-end kit.

    I appreciate the comments about the PT stuff. B&W said that they too once developed a similar product but didn't put it to market despite significant R&D expense, as it sounded little better than just adjusting bass in an EQ device!

    Many thanks again for your constructive help.

    Cheers,
    Peter
     

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