SVS PB13Ultra & Velodyne DD15, a brief comparison.

Great thread, wish i could have made it on the day :(

The one thing I'm convinced of more than anythign else is that my dd is going nowhere! The pure size of the SVS puts me off from having it in my living room :eek:
 
Great thread, wish i could have made it on the day :(

The one thing I'm convinced of more than anythign else is that my dd is going nowhere! The pure size of the SVS puts me off from having it in my living room :eek:

Wuss :)

Actually it makes a great put me up type bed, in case of emergency :D
 
As a DD15 owner I would like to thank all the usual suspects for their contributions to this thread. From the review (I have never heard any form of SVS Ultra) I would suggest that the TVR/Porsche analogy is extremely valid (as long as we are not talking about soulless Boxsters.)

With regard to Tony's sad picture of his Griffith (IMO the only pretty TVR ever made) I wonder whether the damage to the fibreglass could be roughly replicated with either of these subwoofers in a Barrett "home?" Could repeated playing of Flight of the Phoenix or WOTW (God Forbid, both terrible Hollywood crap) reduce those flimsy stud walls or ceilings to a similar state? Improbable, but let me dream!

What is the link between subwoofers and fast cars, power presumably? Most of the regular contributors to this forum seem to be serious car enthusiasts.
 
I'm tired of waiting for my pre-ordered SVS cylinder to arrive (no sub) so I have been reading this thread with interest.

Looking at the photos, the PB13U looks huge and yet the measurements say not: 27" D / 20.5" W / 22" H. Is the picture deceiving me or are the measurements wrong?
 
The dimensions are correct, IMO.
I don't have a tape to hand, but have a good eye, it's part of my job ;)

It's a big box, no doubt about it, when you see it in the flesh :)

Don't know what you had before, but it is big mate.
 
I'm tired of waiting for my pre-ordered SVS cylinder to arrive (no sub) so I have been reading this thread with interest.

Looking at the photos, the PB13U looks huge and yet the measurements say not: 27" D / 20.5" W / 22" H. Is the picture deceiving me or are the measurements wrong?

Create a mockup with some old cardboard boxes and tell me it looks small :D
 
TBH the PB13 Ultra is looking smaller to me now in my room, or else I'm just getting used to it...
 
Slight aside here, but I have to say as an SVS fanboy :rolleyes: that the SBS speakers can not match the PB13 Ultra, IMO :rolleyes:
 
Anytime this year?????:mad:

Only joking mate :)

If it's worth it, this is my next move.

To clarify things, when my ears are being hurt by my system, the SBS are a tad harsh, having run out of steam. It's really not good enough :nono: :rotfl:

It's incredible that they can handle this serious abuse, really.
The AVC-1AD certainly can't catch them out, for power :D

Richard, rather than interfering with this thread, can you let me know the score re: the mutts via PM mate? :smashin:
 
Having predicted I wouldn't commit another “Russ Ramble” to the internet, I'm going to do so anyway.:rolleyes:

Description

The fundamentals (size, shape, orientation, raw specs) are well enough documented but there are a number of features that never seem to get mentioned and a lot of the interesting ones are on the amp.

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Sporting a baffling array of controls compared to most subs, the connectivity is very comprehensive with the single exception of high level inputs. Present on even modestly priced subs, I find their omission strange. Their absence precludes use by pure stereo setups lacking (enough) pre-amp outputs. Okay you say, but it's a little odd given that two set of low level inputs are present and in stereo which is clearly not an AV requirement. The nod is clearly given to non AV use, so I'd have thought high level inputs may have been a more sensible inclusion than the balanced connections, which only tend to find their way onto AV processors and decent pre-amps. Then again, affordable processors (Integra, Anthem, etc) sporting such connections are more common in the States and lest we forget, we're a minor market in comparison.

That said, the low level inputs include a nice feature which is switchable high passed outputs which allow you daisy chain one sub off another, rather than having to use ‘Y' splitters and run two runs of cable all the way back to the amp.

The single band of parametric EQ is well enough documented and can be extremely effective in a room only suffering from one truly dominant response peak, but new to a big SVS is the room compensation control. In an effort to compensate for excessive room gain, this tilts the frequency response downward from about 30Hz in one of three preset rates. Even in my room which comfortably fits into SVS's classification of ‘Medium' using any of the compensation settings seemed to result in a curtailed response, even before I'd applied any EQ from the SMS-1. I would however suggest you tune to taste, because between the room compensation, port tuning options and the PEQ, I imagine there's something to suit most rooms, especially if they fall into the ‘small' category where excessive bass is easy to achieve.

Build.

Generally very good, there are some finishing/detail compromises being made to fit such performance into such an aggressive price point.

The one area clearly clear from compromise is that glorious driver/amp combination. In-spite of abuse way beyond the levels at which I would ever normally listen at (in the interests of research you understand;)) I never once heard any noises or hardening of it's sound indicating that it was coming close to it's limits, or even breaking a sweat. Even test tones couldn't elicit any nasties, at least not in my 6x4m room. Someone, somewhere may disagree, but they will be a nutter in a really big room and probably American. Or in a playground.:)

There is however, clear evidence of where the compromises have been made to meet this extraordinary price v performance ratio and it's in the finishing touches. This will seem like nit picking, but I'm going to list them non the less. I will add that this is in the budget Grittex black finish and I haven't had a chance to compare it to a veneered example, which on the other SVS subs I've played with have always been absolutely flawless.

The ports are strictly functional and as I never heard them, they seem to be working well. However, gone is the flush fit of the PB12/Plus & Ultra with their nicely pointless styling details (I like stuff like that), replaced instead with non rebated plain ports, that in the case of the right hand one, doesn't fit quite as neatly as the other two. This is visible below and more obvious in the flesh. This is a shame, because this is the first SVS where the ports are on the front and therefore are a styling issue. On the old PB12s, they're on the back where you don't even see them.

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The rebating of the driver shows cost cutting too. Completely un-radiused, it not only displays the grain of the cabinet material, but the spraying doesn't make it all the way into the rebate either. Compare it to the same detail in my BK XLS-300/PR review.

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And finally, so I get all of the gripes out of the way, that big dab next to the crossover knob isn't one of mine - it's glue/sealant from the amps manufacturing process. It should be noted that all controls operated smoothly and positively and I never felt anything was in anyway likely to fail during normal operation.

I must reiterate, these are finishing touches on the cheapest of the finish options. They in no way affect structural, operational or performance integrity and nobody was ever pretending this is a cost no object sub. It's clear the money is being spent where SVS feel it will affect performance first and foremost and again, you really should see the veneered stuff. It's razor sharp.

Right, that's it – Gripes over. From here on in, it's all good. Really good.

Setup.

The bottom of the PB13 is equipped with six conical feet to stop it wandering around during normal (?) playback. This is a pain in the arse when ‘tuning' as they do exactly what they were supposed to, extremely well. However, a spare blanket allowed it to be maneuvered with comparative ease and unsurprisingly, the PB13 worked best where every other sub has worked best thus far, regardless of which way the drivers point. I hope the picture below gives some idea of it's size, which the basic black finish does nothing to disguise!

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Setup proved to be painless, quickly establishing that the 15Hz tune provided the smoothest natural response and best in room extension, but I tried all of the options anyway. If there was the slightest soupçon of preference for the sealed option with music (and if tested blind I wouldn't have sworn to it), it was negated by my being too lazy to keep changing back and forth, so 15Hz it was. I did try using the onboard PEQ, that had proven so effective on the PB12/Ultra, but was unable to achieve a similarly satisfactory result. As stated the room size compensation was left switched to defeat and after relatively little twiddling, a nice flat response (which seems to suit my room) was achieved using the SMS-1.

Listening.

Suitably happy, I proceeded to listening and found that beyond turning the sub up by about 3dB for movies, I left everything pretty much where it was. I would probably experiment more in the long term if the sub were my own, but honestly I didn't want to waste time listening to test tone sweeps, when I could be battering my senses (and the houses structure) with real program material.

If I had to single out one moment that made me giggle like a schoolgirl, then the HD-DVD of Transformers was the one that had it. During the final showdown toward the end, there's a brief moment where a 'bot' somersaults over a woman cowering on the ground. As it does so, what is already turning out to be a fairly momentous bass moment, drops down well into the infrasonic in response to the on screen action going into slow motion. Now, if the belly wobbling solidity with which the sub drops into effortlessly pulsing the room isn't enough, it's the lack of sound that was so impressive.

Push any sub hard and it'll start to emit sounds other than that of the soundtrack. Cabinets will start to chime in, ports chuff/whistle, drivers start to cry or simply output so much distortion the sound just simply changes character. There was simply none of this. Ok, at the very deepest extremes there was a hint of port noise, but as long as the speakers were playing too, you couldn't hear it. I suppose the lower tunes may elicit noises sooner, but in my room that would have been a pointless exercise.

This is all very well and probably enough for a lot of people and if it is, turn it up with a big phat house curve and go have some fun. I guarantee you'll have loads and I can't think of anything as capable of this level of hooliganism for this little money. I'd buy it for this alone, but more of that later.

For me, it's only one of the combination of tricks that make this sub such fun. Another it's vice like grip on dynamics both micro and the more obvious macro. Sure, it goes damn loud and fast (Children of Men), but it's the micro dynamics that give the individual links in a tanks track (Saving Private Ryan) such visceral, tactile reality as they roll past.

It's this same talent that gives a low frequency plucked string a fibrous quality that makes it sound less like a tone and more like the vibrating mechanism that it is. Double bass in particular benefits from this ability to separate out the texture of the string, from the resonance of the instruments body behind it, preventing the whole from sounding like a soft thrummy thing. It plays notes too, shifting gears between fast bass guitar notes in a fashion that would leave any number of supposedly faster, smaller subs floundering. As such, fast rhythm based tracks don't drag their heels - they bounce along prompting a flurry of tapping feet that would make Ivor Tiefenbrun a happy bunny.

The best thing though was the way it handles kick drum. I regularly finding myself turning subs down until, what was a happy setting for film frolics, stops making kick drums sound thudding and muffled and slow. The PB13 just made it feel like a bigger kick drum, sacrificing none of the leading edge of the thwack and rounding it off nicely with the tone of the drum itself. Nice.

It's perfect then? No, not quite. From a purely personal preference point of view, the PB13 lacks that nth degree of dryness found in subs like the Velodyne DDs that add a bit more detail still, but that's hardly a negative. That it bears comparison with subs costing at least twice as much is praise indeed and even the DDs still don't come close to delivering that magnificent, apparently bottomless bottom end that once sampled is hard to give up.

And that's where I am now; I've had to give it up because it isn't mine and that's the way it will stay, because I have the same problem that will confront most people. Not that I don't want it - believe me I do. No, it's just that as long as I'm in this decidedly average size room, it's just too big and no amount of throws, doilies, reading lamps, bald eagles etc, etc will hide it's brutal proportions.

Dammit.:(

Russell
 
Nice follow up review Russ:D

It brings back happy memories of the Saving Private Ryan movie we demoed at the av sales day a few months ago.

I must get over to Badgers sometime soon for a bass nutters day out now he has his PB13 set up.

Regards

Keith
 
Nice review Russ, although, I might have a couple of issues, which I'm going to sleep on :D

I really haven't made my mind up totally, due to lack of listening.
 
Nice follow up review Russ:D

It brings back happy memories of the Saving Private Ryan movie we demoed at the av sales day a few months ago.

I must get over to Badgers sometime soon for a bass nutters day out now he has his PB13 set up.

Regards

Keith

You have PM ;)
 
Hello Russ.

First of all, thanks for your impressions :thumbsup:

I share my surprise with you regarding the lack of high-level inputs. Actually, it looks like a trend started with the SB12+, and I imagine the PB12+ is being re-designed and we will see a new model replacing it soon... without high-level inputs. I wonder if I should wait, or hurry up buying the PB12+ :confused::suicide:

Well, after spending 4 days in Spain working like a dog 12 hours a day, I have decided I deserve the subwoofer, and I do not want to wait any longer... We will see what the Missus thinks about an earlier-as-planned purchase ;)

So it will be a PB12+ in Black piano finish (I would kill for Mahagony, but these SVS guys are not easy to intimidate :D ).

Back to topic, I agree with you that looks are secondary and the price/performance ratio is unbeatable, but it is still a very expensive toy, and I would not accept such a glue stain even in a 100 euro device. Other details are a pity (specially lack of flush mount for ports on the front!), but not a shame.
 
**** ** that is one huge sub!!!!! :eek:

It looks impressive, but I'd have to agree, far too dominating for your room! The big question though is, which would you choose, the PB-13 + SMS1 or a DD-15? (given that you can get a 2nd hand DD-15 for the same price as an sms-1 and the svs).
 
Nice review Russ :thumbsup: but OMG it does look big in you're room :eek: In all honesty though I don't think black suits you're room :rotfl:

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It looks much better in mine :D
 
Someone, somewhere may disagree, but they will be a nutter in a really big room and probably American. Or in a playground.:)

:rotfl:
I wonder if you're referring to anyone in particular?:confused:

Nice review as ever Russell :smashin:
 
somewhere may disagree, but they will be a nutter in a really big room and probably American. Or in a playground.:)

Unlikely to be anyone in a playground as the sub you had was the very same one that performed so well in a playground recently.

PS - I'd have one like a shot but they are too expensive as it's not just a matter of buying it but the alimony I would have to pay my wife after she left me
 

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