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Yellow Box Junction Fines

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by Goooner, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Goooner

    Goooner Well-Known Member

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    Just reading in the paper this morning about how a council raking in nearly £70,000 in fines in just a month form a camera at a yellow box junction. Now I'm not at all in favour of cameras put in places purely to make money, but one a comment from a driver left me a bit puzzled.

    "It's impossible not to get stuck in the box, particularly in rush-hour. It's one of those classic money-making traps."

    Now, I now it's over 30 years since I passed my test, so things may have changed, but I always thought the rule for yellow box junctions was you don't enter, unless your exit is clear, unless you're turning right.

    In the picture I can see no sign of a right turn in the area covered by the box, so how is it "impossible not to get stuck in the box"?

    Surely, if you follow the rules and don't enter until the exit is clear, unless the person in front of you suddenly starts reversing, you shouldn't get stuck in it, should you?
  2. blue max

    blue max Active Member

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    There are places where it is very congested. The traffic may be moving slowly and then stop to let a bus out or whatever. You make a judgement when you enter the junction. That is only based on seeing traffic moving, not what is up front.

    In a perfect world, you would not enter until there is a space to move into, but with so many obstructions on some roads (lights, pelicans, crossings, bus lanes etc), it is very difficult to adhere to that. There is also pressure from drivers behind and people switching lanes in the junction and occupying the space you were going for.

    Of course, there are many roads where it is completely obvious and you deserve a fine if you block the road. But in some places it is almost inevitable.

    I do think it is hard to generalise.
  3. shodan

    shodan Active Member

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    Sounds a bit like people moaning about speed cameras generating revenue.
    There is a simple way to not get fined for speeding, parking where your shouldn't, using your phone whilst driving etc etc.
    Choose to not do it, rather than choosing to do it.
    I've had points on my licence ago but that was because of a decision I made. Since then I've made decisions to not risk getting points and as a result, I've not had any.
  4. Stinja

    Stinja Active Member

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    You do get stuck out of your control: waiting to turn right, cars going straight thru run the orange to red, and left into road you wanted to turn into, which is blocked further up by a black cab picking up a punter, and so on.

    Likewise going straight: you advance forwards as the traffic is starting to move, two cars in the left turn-only lane push up and cut in front of you = stuck.

    Generally it is impatience, and light phasing though. So I'm all for yellow box fines, IF the money goes into the road system, and IF the roads are designed properly (no yellow boxes on roundabouts etc) and not to generate money. Better yet fine the cause of the incident (maybe not always the car actually in the box).

    Better yet, legislate all cars to have a Faraday Cage, no driver's seat belt and a large metal spike in the centre of the steering wheel, I bet that would make cars and their drivers much better :smashin:
  5. Goooner

    Goooner Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's not always possible to avoid getting stuck in the box, but purely going by the picture

    It looks like it's just a single lane with a bus lane on the left, no right turn anywhere, to be honest from the picture I can't even see the need for a box junction anyway, so just going by the picture, I think it's a case of unless you can see enough space to exit the box, don't enter it. Subject of course to a bus deciding to randomly pull out of it's own lane into the general traffic lane :)

    Well there was supposed to be a picture attached but that doesn't seem to have worked :)
  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D Active Member

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    Don't see any reason for getting stuck in a box junction , simple wait outside until your exit is clear.

    They are about the most stupid thing out there on the roads though.
  7. Goooner

    Goooner Well-Known Member

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    Yes, unless you can see a clear space to exit the other side, you don't enter it, pretty simple really.
  8. alphaomega16

    alphaomega16 Active Member

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    No money collected goes to fixing roads, there have been big and deep potholes around my way for months and I have even notified them on several occasions.
  9. FruitBat

    FruitBat Active Member

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  10. phil t

    phil t Member

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    I choose, or at least I choose not, to speed.

    Thinking about a specific box junction on my way to work, it could be clear when you enter it and blocked before you exit it!

    That’s surely not my fault?

    Cars merge from the left, just after the box, straight into queuing traffic. They never enter the box and aren’t on lights, so they’re not doing anything wrong.
  11. Goooner

    Goooner Well-Known Member

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    ImageUploadedByAVForums1375769197.102245.jpg

    I'm sure there are cases where you can be blocked in one where its not your fault, but as far as I can see, if this picture has actually uploaded this time, I can't see where it could happen in this case, unless someone in front suddenly reverses.
  12. phillyd1981

    phillyd1981 Active Member

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    You can legally wait in a box junction if you are turning right and the road you are turning into is clear! and you have to wait for a gap in the oncoming traffic.
  13. Goooner

    Goooner Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but referring to the particular one in the picture, unless you're planning on driving into the bridge support, there's nowhere to turn right to:D

    My point was more about this particular one, rather than box junctions in general and the one driver saying that it's impossible to not get stuck in the box.

    I couldn't even see any reason for it to be there in the first place, but thinking about it, I suppose it could be to stop people from cutting into the main lane, where the bus lane starts.
  14. dejongj

    dejongj Well-Known Member

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    Generally I agree however I've had a few times where all of a sudden a car changes lane cuts you up and takes that space that you just engaged to crawl into and despite best intentions now I was stuck in the yellow box.
  15. shodan

    shodan Active Member

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    I agree that this is where the system is flawed. It seems you are describing entering the box as it is clear, then some dick pulls in front of you forcing you to stop in the junction box. Seems to me that that is your reason for contesting the ticket the next time this happens.
  16. Greg S

    Greg S Member

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    alphaomega16 I'm with you. The pot holes around my area have been terrible and not much has been done. Hopefully we can both see some road repairs in the near future.
  17. kevykat

    kevykat Active Member

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  18. DOBLY

    DOBLY Member

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    This isn't a box junction - there is no junction. It is simply a revenue trap.
    The driver of the car in front of the MPV which is in front of the Fiesta on the yellow box surely works for the local council ;)

    Also, how do they know that you are stopped, not just moving very slowly?
    If they take two photos a second apart, how can they be sure that you haven't moved 0.001mm in that time? If you are still moving, you are not stopped, surely?
  19. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

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    BBC News - CCTV road fines: Tackling traffic or raising money?

    I head for the Bagley's Lane box junction in Fulham, which is nicknamed the "money box".

    More than 29,000 motorists were fined here in the year to March, yielding £2m for Hammersmith and Fulham Council.

    I give myself a pep talk as I approach it, revisiting my Highway Code.

    You're not allowed stop in a box junction if it blocks traffic.

    If your exit road is not clear, you must not enter in the first place.

    There is one exception - if you are turning right and the only thing stopping you getting out of the box is oncoming traffic.

    As I am careful to abide by the rules, the other drivers around me see red.

    I refuse to creep into the box junction and I am shouted at and beeped as other commuters desperately try to move ahead.

    After resident Andrew Ashe got a ticket, he submitted a Freedom of Information request, forcing the council to reveal email exchanges in their traffic department.

    There were emails that highlighted talk of financial targets rather than of improving traffic flow.

    "Another record for us," read one email.

    "The late shift penalty charge notices helped matters so well done everyone," read another.

    In fact, there is even an internal email which appears to show council frustration that drivers are obeying the law because that would mean fewer fines and less money for the council.

    "A worrying start as penalty charge notices seemed to reduce," said the email.

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