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Verifying that PS3 is sending DTS vs Linear PCm

Discussion in 'PS3 Media & Streaming' started by Temujin69, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. Temujin69

    Temujin69 Member

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    Good day! long time reader, first time poster :) Bear with the n00b pls:D

    I read a bunch of threads and unfortunately I think it may have confused me a little more.

    I got a new rig (retired the 5.1 Sony receiver and Xbox first gen) for a PS3 slim and a new Sony receiver, STR-DN1000

    My old receiver did not have an HDMI input and the optical out wouldn't handle the Bluray audio

    My question: I have some MKV files

    The issue (I think) is that the receiver keeps showing 'linear pcm' vs what I thought it should show which was DTS. The almighty blue light comes on signifying at least a 5.1 environment.

    I'm running PS3MS from the pc and streaming through the PS3. Using HDMI connection for audio and video, no optical cable.

    Is it just going to show DTS on the receiver when playing bluray discs in the PS3?
    My old receiver would show whatever the file was encoded with, perhaps I just need to RTFM for the receiver or is there a simple thing I'm missing?

    What other info can I include to clarify this more if needed?

    Thanks so much for any help / advice.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2010
  2. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    PS3 can't accept DTS in a stream so both PS3MS and MKV2VOB 'trick' the PS3 into playing DTS by adding a PCM 2.0ch header on to the begining.

    Sounds like this is working as you are getting 5.1 not just 2ch stereo.

    So sounds like you just need to Change the PS3 audio output to HDMI bitstream.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2010
  3. Temujin69

    Temujin69 Member

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    Ok, so I guess I'm doing alright, I just need to 'grasp' what's going on. I play Bluray discs with full DTS-HD np, just when I stream, I thought the same would happen.

    I played several mkvs that said they were dts but the receiver displays Linear PCM and when I hit select on the PS3 while playing it says dolby digital 5.1 48 khz.

    I went to the main Sound - audio settings part on the PS3 and HDMI audio had pretty much everything under the sun checked off, there was no option for Bitstream there. I DID go to the BD audio part and selected bitstream there, did I get lost? :)

    If I'm able to play mkvs with no problem, is there a benefit to using that mkvtovob process? I'm hard wired so the bandwidth isn't an issue for large files.

    Thanks!!
  4. Temujin69

    Temujin69 Member

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    running mkvtovob on my Imax mkv has resulted in the receiver now showing it as DTS (yay!) and the Select option for the PS3 display shows it as 2CH linear PCM, is that the 'trick' you were speaking of?

    Long story short, I just wanna make sure I'm getting the best sound of the system.

    Thanks for your help:smashin:
  5. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    So are you streaming the MKV's 'as is' with PS3 Media Server or pre-converting with MKV2VOB?

    If your not pre-converting you need to make sure you have the 'Keep DTS audio in stream' option checked in PS3MS transcode settings tab
  6. Temujin69

    Temujin69 Member

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    I WAS streaming as is with no probs, but I JUST checked off that box :)
    But I had a few that were too big so I used mkvtovob.

    I will try it out using that DTS button checked off in ps3ms and leaving the mkvs.

    So many options to play around with!
  7. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    No that option needs to be ON if your transcoding on the fly with PS3MS.

    If your preconverting make sure none of the audio options are checked in MKV2VOB and it will add the DTS 'patch' automatically
  8. A320

    A320 Member

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    Great information here gang, just what I was looking for.

    First my setup:
    Using PS3 Media Server with TSMuxer to stream HD MKV's over to my entertainment setup in living room with hard wire. A/V Reciever is Pioneer 919AH connected with HDMI 1.3 to PS3 and out to 52" 1080i DLP TV.

    Just want to confirm, the fake or 'tricked' header added to the audio before it is sent to the PS3 in my case shows:

    Linear PCM 2.0ch 1.5MBPS

    I just want to confirm that the bitrate of 1.5kbps is ALSO a part of the fake header.

    Also, for the audio to make it all the way to my receiver to be decoded, I must set under video options on the PS3 for HDMI to send audio as "Bitstream" instead of "Linear PCM" correct?

    Otherwise if I have the PS3 set to LPCM, than the PS3 will do the decoding instead prior to my reciever, do I have all this right?

    :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  9. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    Yes your right the PS3 does decode before sending to the amp if it's set to PCM; however in the case of these patched DTS streams the PS3 actually thinks it's getting an already decoded PCM stream NOT a DTS encoded stream

    So it doesn't matter if it's set to bitstream or PCM. As the PS3 thinks it's getting a 2.0ch PCM stream there is nothing for it decode is there ;) (It thinks it's already decoded)


    So the PS3 will output 'as is' to your amp. Your Ps3 thinks it's sending a decoded PCM2.0 stream to the AMP, the AMP actually receives from the PS3 a DTS encoded stream and decodes it.
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  10. A320

    A320 Member

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    Thank you for the quick response.

    So in regards to my first question, the 1.5Mbps shown by my ps3 when using 'select' to view video information during playback is not necessarily representing the actual audio bitrate coming through then correct?

    Now my next question may come across as dumb but what exactly is the advantage of using this feature with PS3 Media Server&Tsremux to stream the DTS? If left un-checked, I'm assuming the PS3MS/Computer Will not decode the DTS itself and rather send a lesser audio format out to the PS3 is this correct?

    Also, what is occurring with this feature, either checked or un-checked, when playing MKV's with audio encoded in AC3? I noticed there are a couple of other features on the same 'settings' page of PS3MS and am simply trying to learn how each affects one another. Browsing through my NFO's of my MKV library I've noticed that some of my movies have DTS, others AC3, etc.

    [​IMG]


    Also, in reference to above settings, is 640 the max number I can set for AC3 audio bitrate?

    Bear in mind I can get my head around my electronics but am still learning a lot about the various formats/codecs and advantages/qualities to each.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  11. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    The 1.5kbps is the correct audio bitrate. The PS3 just thinks it's a high bitrate PCM2.0ch encoded stream.

    1.5kbps is the standard bitrate for DTS audio.

    The other options....

    Keep 'DTS audio in stream' this is the one that applies the PCM2.0ch header patch trick to fool the PS3 into passing through a DTS stream to the AMP. Keep this checked to get DTS streamed through your PS3. MKV2VOB does the same trick though so if your Pre-converting your MKV's with that then this will serve no purpose.

    'DTS/FLAC' remuxes DTS or FLAC into lossless PCM audio. Handy if you don't have a DTS capable receiver (Most panasonic all in one systems for example) or for streaming Lossless FLAC audio files. PCM streams can be bandwidth heavy though.
    Again MKV2VOB has an option to do the same if pre-converting.

    Remux when audio track is AC3...Have no idea what use this is ;). Even if your PS3 is connected direct to a TV (so no AC3 decoder) the Ps3 will downmix AC3 for you :confused:

    640 is the highest bitrate AC3 comes in so no point in setting any higher. compare this to 1.5kbps for DTs and you can see why some like DTS more.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  12. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    Sorry for being unbelievably pedantic, but isn't it 1.5Mbps for DTS ;)
  13. A320

    A320 Member

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    Again thanks for the quick response and good, concise information :lesson:.

    So, in my case, I have a Pioneer VSX-919AH with HDMI 1.3 capable of pretty much all decoding I think:


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    So having this Receiver, capable of DTS, I can CHECK to 'Keep DTS Audio in Stream' and let the receiver handle it, and subsequently, uncheck the one underneath for 'DTS/FLAC-->LPCM Remux, right? Otherwise, I am defeating the purpose of the first option if I have the second one checked off.

    I am assuming that it would be better to let my receiver handle the DTS directly rather than PS3MediaServer.

    Now take the following scenario for clarification purposes:

    Last night I watched "SawVI" MKV with the following info:

    Audio.....: ENG DTS 1536Mbps


    I had BOTH options checked:

    [​IMG]

    During Playback, when pressing 'select' the info stated "Linear PCM 2.0ch 1.5MBPS" therefore suggesting to me that the first option overrides the second one regardless of it being checked then. My receiver was showing DTS.

    I went back during playback and changed the PS3MS setting and unchecked to 'Keep DTS Audio in Stream'. The result when pressing 'select' during playback showed "Linear PCM 5.1 48mhz 4.6MBPS. My receiver was showing PCM.

    So as it shows right here:

    [​IMG]

    ....this is why it is showing the bitrate of 4.6 and the audio as LPCM.

    My question is, is this not better since it is a higher bitrate or should I be asking myself how can PS3MS actually take a source bitrate of 1.5 and make it to 4.6:confused:

    IE, how does DTS @ 1.5kbps going to receiver compare to PS3MS changing the audio to LPCM 4.6kbps and then sending it to receiver?

    Thanks again!!:rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  14. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    Can you remove the bit about the mkv details, you may well have ripped your own version, but i doubt it, and what you've shown on-screen is illegal.....

    Also, please refer to it as Mbps, it's doing my head in seeing 1.5Kbps all the time ;)

    You can't make audio better than it is originally, the same as video, just leave the first box checked and patch the DTS header.....to get DTS.....all LPCM is doing is bloating the file size...
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  15. A320

    A320 Member

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    Yes, thank you, I will edit and correct my references, although thats what I meant, I don't want to confuse others that may be reading this.
  16. A320

    A320 Member

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    You got it and you're right, I didn't rip it, BUT I DO own it on Blu-Ray, it's ordered from B.B. just couldn't wait till the 26th to watch it!
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  17. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    Spot on...




    Correct...
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  18. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    Thanks for the edit, can't be too careful.... ;)
  19. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    Oh how tempted i was to requote the full post keeping the filename referenced for ever....:D
  20. A320

    A320 Member

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    NP! and thank you both for the great info, to me this stuff is fascinating but requires a lot of attention to detail and knowledge of how one thing affects the other.

    So now that I know how to properly configure my setup for the best possible audio situation, this leads me to my next question,

    Is it possible to rip a Blu-Ray into an MKV container and somehow preserve the original/entire HD audio track for example DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD?
  21. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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  22. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    Yes, that's possible, but there's no way to get it to play on the PS3, as we think (still to be confirmed) that PS3 Media Server won't pass through the HD audio and mkv2vob definitely doesn't handle it.

    Only way is to use .m2ts/.mts and use AVCHD, we think....which will result in an increase in file size.
  23. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    Damn, beat me to it!
  24. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    and you used the AVCHD word. Yuck I'm off.....
  25. A320

    A320 Member

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    I'm assuming AVCHD is yet another way of ripping/encoding or containing an HD source?

    A quick google states it is a branded trademark of sony&panasonic.
  26. Uridium

    Uridium Active Member

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    Axum's yer man for AVCHD but in simple terms basically it allows you to re-create a BluRay disc structure on a USB stick/Drive. PS3 will then see the USB device as a BluRay disc.

    See the media guide as per sig

    As it's not streamable I don't use it as i find it easier to just put the BluRay disc in....;)
  27. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    It's very simple. When you rip the Blu-ray, keep the .m2ts files that are generated. These will contain the video and multiple audio streams (usually AC3, DTS and DTS HD). You then run these through something called multiAVCHD, this generates an AVCHD folder, with the .m2ts files split up into 4GB files.

    You then have to transfer this to a USB HDD or stick. Plug this into the PS3 and it fools it into thinking it's playing a Blu-ray. You then get 24fps playback, and selectable audio and subtitles, so you can choose either AC3 sound, DTS or DTS-HD.

    All this info is in the Media Guide.

    You cannot stream these .m2ts files, DTS playback (and i'll assume DTS-HD!) is NOT supported via anything other than disc playback or via AVCHD on a USB stick.
  28. Axum

    Axum Active Member

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    Double-drat, beat me to it AGAIN!!!! ;)
  29. A320

    A320 Member

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    LOL, thanks again. Good info here guys&gals and also explained VERY well and coherently.

    I've got tons more reading to do!

    Much appreciated.:smashin:
  30. A320

    A320 Member

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    Forgive my oversight, but with the latest PS3MS, there is an option to stream the DTS (not DTS-HD though) all the way through to your PS3 OR Receiver no?

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