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Velodyne DD+ : new flagship sub range

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Smurfin, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    See here:

    Velodyne

    Looks interesting - different driver, improved EQ, different cabinet.

    Also looks bloody expensive - probably £5000 for the DD15+, very limited finish options (although the ebony sounds interesting), and I don't get quite so excited about EQ anymore, as it's so easy to do off-board.

    Few pics to be found here:

    Velodyne

    Quite like the look of this:

    http://www.velodyne.com/news/hi-res_photos/DD1 Ebony_300dpi.jpg

    http://www.velodyne.com/news/hi-res_photos/DD3Front View_300dpi.jpg

    Edit: DD15+ = £4500 @ Kent Home Cinema
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  2. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    Ok ignore me, I'm late to the party on this one :suicide:
  3. recruit

    recruit Guest

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    Its a bout time they released a new range anyway :facepalm:
  4. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    Yep. Never mind me being late to the party, I can't help but think that Velodyne are. This range needed to come out 2 years ago, and as it stands I their biggest competitor is the Sub1 and Sub2. Obviously I've not heard either, but if I were a betting man I'd still be putting my money on the Paradigm Sub2 vs the DD+ range.
  5. Ian J

    Ian J New Member

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    The pound was much stronger against the dollar two years ago as well
  6. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    Of course, I hadn't thought about that and that's obviously had an effect on the price. I'm sure these subs will rock...but there's so much choice out there now (by comparison).

    I'd be interested to hear the new DD, but I won't be rushing to pay almost five grand for one :rolleyes:

    We need to get Rigman in here as a guinea pig and convince him that this will really complement his Sub2. What's another five grand when you've spent over 50? :laugh:

    *gets back in his Green-With-Envy box* :D
  7. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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  8. Member 96948

    Member 96948 Active Member

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    Reading between the lines, I can't see much over and above the old SMS-1/DD EQ, but if they've attended to the distortion issues and added an auto EQ that was little better than a graphic EQ, then that is a worthwhile improvement.

    I wonder how the DD15+ would compare to the Paradigm SUB 25 that I will have in-situ at the end of February? I suspect we'll never know....

    Russell
  9. Member 639844

    Member 639844 Former Advertiser

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    I think comparing it to the sub 25 is more fair than a sub2, which apparently will be pushing 9k rrp soon enough.

    The driver looks decent enough with a large roll surround suggesting a decent amount of excursion ability, and thus xmax. I cant really see why I would consider paying 5k for one though.

    Russell, I cant wait for the sub 25 review :smashin: Ive heard peeps that a couple of those would be preferable to a single sub2, which would marry with my own personal speculation, so its one review I am going to be very interested in.

    AVF should put the gauntlet out to Velodyne, see if they dare let you review one in the face of the Paradigm. I personally would consider the response a decent indication of Velos faith in their own product, and possible comparisons could be surmised before a review, possibly.
  10. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    How much is the Sub25? Noticed a US review online from 2008? :confused:
  11. Member 96948

    Member 96948 Active Member

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    Indeed and that is why I consider the Sub 25 a fair comparison, rather than the Sub 2.

    Speaking as someone who buys raw and manufactured materials on a day to day basis is his real job, I too struggle to reconcile Paradigms price increases UNLESS they are purely as a result of limiting demand against supply.

    Virtually no audio products are actually worth what you receive in material terms. What you pay for is performance capability against the manufacturers ability to supply. At the end of the day, they're all businesses which means they need to make money and why supply something at £4k with a six month lead time when you can sell it at £6k with a four month lead time? You're still selling everything you can make and profit from it.

    That's business.

    If looks were everything.....

    I'm looking forward to it too. I've heard the Sub 25 several times before and know it to be a superb sub. It will be interesting to finally get it and the Room Perfect software, that I am also familiar with, in a different and slightly awkward room. It's not taken me long to get a handle on my new room and isolate the differences between this room and the last, in spite of their very different topology. I now have an open staircase at the far end, but it seems to make virtually no difference. I'm genuinely surprised at that, but due to the room's less than regular shape, it's a bit of a test.

    The good news is that the new room allows me greater space behind and to the the side of the speakers. This is definitely an improvement on the room you heard (my old one) and will work well with the Tannoy in-walls I've chosen to form the basis of the system I'm installing in it.

    I think that would be a very political decision, although I would note that I number the old DD15 as one of my 'top ten' subs and as such, any development of it to be automatically interesting.

    As an ex SMS-1 owner, I appreciated it's limits, thought it to be a superb example of user configurable design, with a few issues letting the side down. It sounds like Velodyne have taken this on board, although I reserve judgment until I have sampled the new fayre. If I may be so bold, the Velo "Auto" EQ wasn't worth a pig in a poke, but if the new version will actually target a frequency and actually vary the Q of the filter, then they're about to elevate their product into the elite league.

    Russell
  12. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    Russ, what Tannoy in-walls out of interest, and why did you go with those?
  13. Member 96948

    Member 96948 Active Member

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    I'm going with the iw 6TDC across the front and the iw 4DC in the ceiling above the seating position.

    Why? Well it's a combination of the constrained directivity a dual-concentric driver offers combined with the dynamic attack the tulip loaded tweeter delivers.

    Basically, the dispersion pattern of the Tannoy dual concentric driver is constrained which makes it relatively independent of the walls around them as they don't spread as much upper-mid and high frequency information sideways as a normal two way would. The fact that less energy is dispersed/lost sideways makes them more efficient and this in turn allows the tweeter to be crossed over at lower frequencies due to the efficiency of it's horn loading. In turn, this also allows the in-walls (specifically) to use low (first order) crossover slopes that are inherently phase correct that in turn impacts dynamic attack in a positive sense.

    The down side is that the midrange information does suffer from a certain amount of intermodulation as the treble driver is outputting frequencies across the cone of the mid/bass driver which, in the crossover region, is reproducing the same frequencies. However, on balance I feel this is a small price to pay for that quasi horn transient attack that the Tannoy DCs do so well. It's not like other speakers don't impose their own, different set of compromises on sound reproduction - they do, it's just that I like the Tannoy compromise enough to buy it.

    I suspect that now you're local again, you'll get to hear them soon enough...:)

    Russell
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  14. Member 639844

    Member 639844 Former Advertiser

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    Indeed, its just a shame us poor people would have to wait till prices drop to get hold of one, if one was so inclined. It might cut out some potential buyers, its good for the company, not so good for the end user with a budget to consider.

    Tell me about it, but if one hasnt heard a product, and wishes to speculate on it, then all you have to go off is a specs list and the looks. The looks arent completely useless.


    Does this mean your build thread is due an update? I hope so :D
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  15. Member 96948

    Member 96948 Active Member

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    There has been progress, but unfortunately to the outside of the outbuilding in order to make it watertight - It's a bit old. The Tannoys are for the floating wall I'm doing in the front room to try and cut down on the amount of overtly visible tech.

    Russell
  16. Member 96948

    Member 96948 Active Member

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    Just to get back to the Velodyne, am I alone in noticing a rather significant feature that is missing?

    <EDIT> Scratch that, I just notice the accelerometer glued to the back of the cone in one of the publicity shots - It's still a servo, even if the modus operandi has changed slightly. I wonder why they don't make more of it? It was and is one of the biggest factors in defining the Velodyne DD style of bass.

    Russell
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  17. wookie1

    wookie1 Member

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    Redline will be more than happy to supply a DD15/18 Plus for appraisal by AVF. Stock of these units is due to land with us in late February.
  18. Member 639844

    Member 639844 Former Advertiser

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    Now that just made things very interesting. A pro review of either for publishing would be golden :smashin: Come on Russell, I'm sure you have nothing better to do :D

    Out of interest, whats the proposed retails on the new models in GBP?
  19. wookie1

    wookie1 Member

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    DD-10 Plus £3100
    DD-12 Plus £3500
    DD-15 Plus £4500
    DD-18 Plus £5800
  20. Member 639844

    Member 639844 Former Advertiser

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    Do you have a link to the spec lists etc?
  21. Member 96948

    Member 96948 Active Member

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    I'll be in touch.:)

    Russell
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  22. wookie1

    wookie1 Member

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    Excellent. Looking forward to the challenge.
  23. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    That's a hefty price hike.
  24. recruit

    recruit Guest

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    Blimey, I did not realize VAT went up that much :devil:
  25. SBanga

    SBanga Active Member

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    Some more resources and pics here.
  26. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    Honestly? I'm somewhat underwhelmed, because other than a different driver and cabinet and some fancy one touch EQ'ing (which we can easily get elsewhere in an off-board capacity), what is there that's really different? Of course the driver can make a massive difference, but I think there are now other alternatives where high end performance in a relatively compact size (with nice finishes) is required.

    Given that an anti-mode costs a shade over £200 (and that the EQ in the Velo doesn't appear to be much different than the SMS1) that the amplification in the DD+ looks to be the same as the old DD series....I really can't see how a 50% price increase on the DD15 can be justified? :confused:
  27. wookie1

    wookie1 Member

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    The new driver is a substantial factor in the increased cost. The weak pound has also had a huge impact in the final price. DD Plus is quite a different product to the original DD. The EQ system is very well laid out and simple to use. The adjustable servo system, which is often overlooked, can deliver fast tight bass at its full sampling rate or a more 'chubby' bass when backed off.
    Output across the range is up by 4-6dB depending on model. DD Plus is more than a worthy successor for DD.
    To dismiss a product like this without hearing it is mad.
  28. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    To think anyone is dismissing the DD+ is mad ;) Proof is in the pudding of course, but I can't help but be skeptical given the 50% price increase.

    I say this as a historical fan of Velodyne - I've owned DD subs for the last 5 years.

    *edit* - Russ, when you do get one of these to review (please make it the DD-15+ :) ), I'll be more than happy to bring my DD-15 over...will be interesting to hear the difference between the two.
  29. wookie1

    wookie1 Member

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    A DD-15 Plus at £4.5K has to deliver substantial improvements over the old model or it is worthless.
    I have yet to hear the 15/18 Plus but 10/12 Plus units compared to the old models are massively better in all departments. I have high hopes for the bigger units.
  30. Smurfin

    Smurfin Previously MrGrumpie

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    Absolutely, hence my skepticism. I look forward to hearing the DD15+ if the 10/12+ are significantly better than their predecessors :)

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