1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

USA no longer supports us over what it now calls the Malvinas question

Discussion in 'Politics & The Economy' started by la gran siete, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    9,321
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,397
    Yes, the USA is neutral. There were some intersting things loaded into car boots near the British embassy in Washington at the time though. :rolleyes:
    And Argentina don't have oil.
  2. la gran siete

    la gran siete Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    23,062
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,305
    erm yes it does. its an exporter of oil
  3. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    8,950
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,158
    You really are something, aren't you?

    Who are the bigger misfits? A few thousand Brits on a previously uninhabited rock, or descendants of Spanish imperialists who settled on tribal lands?
  4. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    21,909
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    Any word on when Argentina will grant independence to Patagonia?

    Instead of teaching Argentine school kids that most of South America is theirs by divine right why not get them all to watch Blessed By Fire?
  5. Stinja

    Stinja Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Messages:
    8,481
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,343
    I'm waiting for an Inca tribe to wander out of the woods and demand all of Argentina back, and send them back to Spain ;)

    It's sad people keep bringing up "we used to own..." claims, as who has the right is dependant on how far back do you go? Mongolia demands China, Korea, Russia, India etc back? Not going to happen is it, but they ruled over those for a good few years. So apart from short term invasions of recent history (eg: Iraq claiming Kuwait), all historical claims should probably be dropped.

    Then we can get on with the world we do actually live in. Given scaricty of resources, i guess this is too niave, but one can hope...
  6. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    21,909
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    BBC News - Rockhopper optimism on Falklands oil development

    A British company searching for oil off the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic says it has made further significant finds.

    The company, Rockhopper Exploration, said it expected to start pumping oil by 2016.


    On Wednesday Rockhopper said it had found further oil in its Sea Lion prospect, where it announced substantial quantities in March.

    The company estimates there are 350m barrels of recoverable oil in the field it has been exploring - enough to turn the Falklands into a significant oil production centre.

    It said it expected production to peak at about 120,000 barrels per day in 2018.
  7. icstm

    icstm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,196
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +66
    Yeah, I saw the oil story, but it was only because you posted that this thread popped to the top and I saw the whole USA thing.

    What is it with the special relationship that the yanks cannot even, on something like this (where it is pretty clear to everyone, inc the UN that the Falklands are under Queen and country), come out in support of us.

    I did not see the UN sounding the alarm in the 80's?
  8. Rasczak

    Rasczak Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,101
    The USA, like any nation, will do what is in there own national interest. Supporting us, over a fellow American country, isn't.
  9. Jamezinho

    Jamezinho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    8,950
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,158
    True enough. Perhaps we should do what's in our best interests in future and not follow the US into wars that don't concern us.
  10. icstm

    icstm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,196
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +66
    I would have to check, but I would have thought trade with us is larger and from a policital and military perspective, the UK is a key partner. So on what axis is this actually true?

    Is it not like they ear an invasion or terrorism from south america?
  11. MikeTV

    MikeTV Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,588
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +802
    The "Special relationship"? Believe me - it's unrequited love. The US regard the Brits as sinister, suspicious, snobbish, imperialistic, and deserving of a bloody nose. Remember, most of the US population are descendents of non-British Europeans, and who were most likely from nations that were perpetually at war with Britain. Couple this with the fact their country was founded as a direct result of defeating British imperialism, and that this part of history is woven into their sense of identity from an early age. It's kind of inevitable. Whereas the brits just want the big playground bully to like them. That's the special relationship, I'm afraid.

    But mostly, their view on the Falklands is that it is a tiny insignificant island which is much closer to Argentina than Britain, and that Britain's claims to it are merely british imperialist sentimentality.

    In a way, I don't entirely disagree. However, I genuinely don't think Argentina has any historical to claim to it at all, and the proximity argument is bogus too. The Spanish colonised Argentina, and we "legitimately" colonised the Falklands. The Argentinians need to get over it, in my opinion.

    (ps. in case anyone thinks I'm attacking americans - I should point out that I believe their narrow mindedness and preconceptions are no greater than own towards them! We have that in common :))
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  12. travid

    travid Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,022
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +603
    Londonistan is a phrase I seem to remember from a prominant American politician. Donald Rumsfeld was it ?
  13. MikeTV

    MikeTV Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,588
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +802
    Or perhaps just Fox News and the Daily Mail.
  14. travid

    travid Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,022
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +603
    Not sure Mike, time for some research!
  15. Wild Weasel

    Wild Weasel Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,327
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +632
    It was the French. They were sick of all the moslem troublemakers our government allowed to fester in this country.
  16. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    21,909
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    Interesting.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/12108521-post381.html

    Which is it?
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,101
    :rotfl: I do find you amsuing Sonic. I wish I had time to sit at my PC all day resurrecting threads from last year when other current threads on the same topic are still ongoing. Alas I work for a living. Still, your active participation shows there is still plenty of scope fo cutbacks in the Army!

    To answer your queston though - perhaps you should trawl through and find how the submarines requirements have been modified since July 2010 when i posted that and now. What has happened to Submarine Squadrons 1 and 2? What will be happening to Submarine Squadron 2? What submarines have replaced the Swiftsure class? What submarines have replaced the Trafalgar class? How many Swiftsure class submarines did we have? How many Trafalgar class submarines do we have? How many Astutes are they building?
  18. IronGiant

    IronGiant Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    33,905
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +11,101
    And finally, which of those is the trick question?

    :)
  19. Rasczak

    Rasczak Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,101
    The trick question would be ask what is the difference between S, T and A boat cores and how will that impact upon the defence of the Islands. It's all public domain info so I'm sure Sonic can scramble about and ply us with the correct answers.
  20. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    21,909
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    :rotfl: And another dig at me having lots of time. It's getting a little tiresome now. As I have told you before I don't sleep much, and have a laptop, smartphone, PC etc all with an Internet connection.

    Also my posting is related to where I am and what I am doing. Sometimes I am busy sometimes not. Funnily enough people get downtime.

    Seems you are the same judging from your own prolific posting on the politics forum of an AV website. No wonder there is so much scope for cuts from our overloaded civil servants budget. A quick search reveals you have started no less than 495 threads on here. Only 5 to go for a magic 500 threads started!!! And not including all your posting within threads and all the gaming you do too! So is it a quiet afternoon for you then?

    I don't trawl through posts. I have a good memory of what people post. I remembered you being somewhat derisory of Typhoons maintaining a CAP at the time you posted. While looking for a post I had made I saw yours as to how the subs and aircraft around the Falklands could take an on anything. I also recently noted your comparison to Singapore as that stuck out as a poor comparison to be made.

    And to answer your question with another question. What has Argentina being doing between now and then that suggests they are a greater threat? Any major increase in training? New aircraft? New ECM? New ships? How about our Typhoons? Any combat experience that they have been involved in recently that could be beneficial for any action in the future?

    So many questions…
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  21. Dave

    Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    11,422
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +3,407
    [​IMG]
  22. Rasczak

    Rasczak Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,101
    I have no doubt - it is just surprising that you are always available to post on a forum during the working day. I certainly never had time for that when in uniform - especially not when the size of the Forces were being reduced. Still it's good that you get so much time stood down.

    Perhaps I should change my avatar to a computer gaming character as well then - just to match you :p But I fully agree about the reductions in civil servants :)

    I knew you wouldn't have a scooby-doo about the submarines. You should do a search - all the info is out there and would help you when you spend all those evenings tapping away on your beloved ARSSE. With regards to Argentina their military currently presents an insignificant risk when used in conventional methods as it is largely out-dated and underfunded. What of course has changed is the growing - and enduring- economic and politcal isolation of Great Britain over the Falklands issues. How this will impact upon the islands security is something we will have to monitor closely over the next decade.

    BTW: the pilots who flew the Typhoons and Tornados in Libya were experienced individuals (most were pulled from the training wings) who had significant combat experience. ;)
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  23. Scotteh

    Scotteh Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
    Messages:
    566
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +73
    Islanders consider themselves part of Britain, they want to remain so.

    This should be the end of the debate, Britain has already said if the islanders change their stance and want to leave then they are open to discussion. As it stands they don't want to leave and everyone else getting involved should keep their noses out as long those living there do not want to be controlled by Argentina.
  24. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    21,909
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    Well working days can consist of shifts and these days there is such technology such as smartphones and wifi as well. It’s good that now you are a civil servant you have so much more free time though. Every day must seem like a holiday for you now. Good that you have personally have so much free time especially now so many are in danger of being reduced.
    As I’ve said before, I’ve been in the forces for years, know a lot of people from various services, been a member of a military book club for a few decades, done numerous postings and tours. I did note your increasing desperation to try and look for stuff that wasn’t there though. I’d also say how you don’t know a Scooby doo about Afghanistan. Cromwell etc.

    Oh and the 'Sonic' is because someone in Bosnia thought my hair was like a hedgehog. The nickname stuck. :)
    I’m surprised you never post in a forces website if debating military stuff is so important to you. This is an AV website. Is it because on here you can feel like a big fish in a little pond?
    And something we can match. If they ever increase their threat then we can increase the defences. And far easier for us to do too.
    And if there ever was a threat could be sent south. Note that Typhoons have now dropped ordnance in anger too.
  25. phil t

    phil t Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,868
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +170
    Handbags at dawn!!!

    :laugh:
  26. la gran siete

    la gran siete Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    23,062
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,305
    a very salient point

    and a particular person sense of priorities - guns and ships to defend a pair of islands over much needed schools and hospitals:rolleyes:
  27. Sonic67

    Sonic67 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    21,909
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,164
    I'd look for what the first duty of government is, this might do though others say similar.

    Kenneth Jupp / The Duties of Government

    The prime duties of government are three. First, to protect the national territory; secondly to preserve peace within its boundaries; and thirdly to ensure that every family unit of the nation has space in the nation's territory for a home and a means of livelihood.

    I'd question your priorities.
  28. Rasczak

    Rasczak Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,101
    I do enjoy the way you ape my comments - its like having a forum pet.

    Given my position it would be inappropriate. As you have seen from the likes of phil t, JamesL and my own posts, we all tend to pull our punches when posting because we need to be whiter than white when engaging on social networks/forums.
  29. phil t

    phil t Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,868
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +170
    This seems to be your latest stance, but it’s not really correct.

    As an example, a hypothetical nuclear submarine costs X a day to operate, this X doesn’t really vary that much whether the boat is deployed around the Med, in harbour or sitting off the coast of the Falklands.

    The X will be spent regardless, so doesn’t really take money from schools or hospitals.
  30. Dave

    Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    11,422
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +3,407
    If Argentina hadn't invaded there would be no need for the defence requirements of the islands. Very selfish indeed of Argentina to do the Brits out of schools and hospitals don't you think?

Share This Page