Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Screamer, Jun 18, 2007.
That does say with motion flow on though right? You can turn it off.
PS3 firmware v1.9 is out now, which allows you to force 24Hz output from the PS3.
Can anyone confirm whether the Toshiba 42X3030D does now indeed accept 24p input without any conversion?
I've got the Tosh showing an image with forced 1080p24 on the ps3. Can anyone tell me of good (or is that bad) scene to check if the Tosh is showing 24FPS or doing its own 3:2 pulldown.
On a second point my Speed Blu ray as an odd issue with 1080p24, check this posting in ps3 forum.
pick a movie with camera panning across scenery. Pure 24Hz will have no judder.
I have updated my ps3 today and thought screamer and all would like to know the Sharp LC42XD1EA does not accept 24hz, tv displays out of range.
From reading previous threads the person stating it does accept 24hz was looking at the ps3 status and wrongly quoting the audio sample rate of 48hz.
My sharp has never displayed anything but 1080p and 1080i at 60hz. As displayed by the tv status.
Shame as i got this tv because i thought it was 24hz.
Can anyone confirm 24hz works with this tv and ps3 1.9
Does anyone know how to show firmware on the sharp?
Searching with Toshiba x3030d ps3 1.90 force 24p i found a post in a italian av forum:
The source: (in Italian): http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showthread.php?t=71397&page=66
Translation with google translator :
[Begin of translation]
I have tried in sequence the following BD: * Siryana * Casino Royale * Underworld Evolution * The Spouse Corpse * Boot & Elliot * Hellboy Then: the images are not equal to that they are obtained not forcing the escape to 24p, therefore, of fact, the forzatura work. Releases? Bé said that the images continue to be properly fluid (for fluid images do not mean fluid like a dvd) although a improvement is and percepibile like if the microreleases they came ulteriorly aliquot. A enough calazante example can be obtained seeing the trailer dedicated to the BD of Sony, present in nearly all discs of Sony/Columbia: there is a piece, feature I imagine from the film Ultraviolet, in which a series of spherical objects they hit a glass skyscraper: bé without forzatura that sequence of images is characterized from light catcies while with the forzatura it seems all normal school that is lacking in uncertainties. One other scene: 007 Casino Royale in the scene begins them of the panoramic airplane in which an immense group of persons they encircle an arena => not is doubt that also can here be said that the images turn out more natural or however more cinematographic. Always Casino Royale: the scene in which 007 it takes to a machine (a ford grey metalized) and brings in a hotel => also is differences here. Insomma: the fluidity of the continuous reproduction not to be comparable to that one of a traditional one dvd, in any case the vision is sure more pleasant and less tiring.
[End of translation]
Seems to be ok....
Can anyone confirm this?
I am watching Casino Royale now with the PS3 switched to force 24fps and can see no improvement on the 42X3030 ;-( Looks like I'lll be selling it and geting the Z series in October.
B****X!!!! I was planning on buying this TV at the weekend!! The thing that swayed me toward it was the 48hz (2x24hz) support stated earlier on. Im not sure i want to "try" a tv which doesnt support this as i do have a good eye for things and the juddering would P**s me off something chronic!
So it looks as tho the alternative 42" the toshiba 42X3030 does work with 24fps now the 1.9 update is released. I hope this is true. It seems things just keep going round in circles
So does it still judder?!
Should i go for this one then? Any advice? Cheers!
Yep, it still judders, I knew it would and have stated many times before that the 42X3030 does NOT accept a 24Hz signal (it isn't listed as one of the available frequencies in the manual either). I will sell mine soon and buy the 'Z' set series in October as for me it makes watching blu ray etc impossible. Pity really as the set is superb otherwise (imho)
I think half the problem with these judder problems is people's expectations. Its only 24fps, PAL DVDs were 25fps so the framerate is lower than before, its now exactly the same as the cinema, where its not particularly smooth either. What the 1080p24 mode on a TV does is get rid of the judder caused by the 3:2 cadence where the 24 frames dont go into 60 fps so one is shown 3 times and another 2.
As someone who got into DVD at the start with a US player and NTSC discs these were always encoded with 3:2 pulldown, so I never notice any difference with bluray and HD, but if you've only watched PAL DVDs then it will be noticeable. After a while though you'll get used to it and never notice it until someone points it out.
An interesting point, perhaps I should perseevere and my eyes will get used to it?? I would like to see what difference a tv with 24hz compatibility makes though. Another thought I had was -how do I know the films I have been trying are filmed in 24hz as I read somewhere that not all are.
It's still worth noting that Screamer's first post stated:
Toshiba X3030 1920*1080 | Full HD (1080p):
- Advertised as being 24hz-ready, but currently doesn't have the correct EDID data to tell devices like the PS3 that 24hz will work, so juddery video shows instead (same problem that all pre-1013 Samsung M86/M87's have).
- All TV's can successfully be force-fed 24hz video from a PC.
- This TV has 'film mode deinterlacing' for smoothing out 1080i60 video - it's activated via the 'Cinema Mode' option in the TV's menu.
Logic would dictate that if you can force 24hz from a PC and the PS3 can now force 24hz too, that there should be no judder. Unless of course the Toshiba advertised "24p processing" means it just up-converts the 24Hz signal to 50 or 60Hz....?
I see his point but you can't even adjust the 'Cinema' mode when using an hdmi input so doesn't help. Also, if the tv can accept a straight 24hz signal - why does it make no difference at all using the PS3 set to Force 24 hz?? Try looking at Xmen 3 for example - the car in the opening scene seems to have a major problem as it stutters into frame. I do wonder if maybe Toshiba could fix the problem via a firmware update but doubt they would do so as are going to be pushing the Z series soon.
I think the Nine Inch Nails concert Bluray/HD-DVD were shot at 30FPS on HD video.
Oh Thanks for clarifying that as this TV was my 2nd choice!
In that case i am officially back to square one.
I am still really interested in the sharp 42XD1EA tho. I loved the picture quality when i saw it yesterday. More-so than any of the other ones but i cant have it juddering away while trying to watch films or play games.
What to do, what to do
If you can wait a couple of months then the Toshiba 'Z' series are supposed to be 100Hz AND capable of resolving a 24Hz signal. I'll be buying one for sure but ONLY after taking my PS3 to Hughes Electrical and plugging it in to test first ;-)
My mate, not having watched Blu Ray before, spotted the judder immediately and kept pointing it out in every scene. I notice it but it doesn't bother me.
So I tried watching soem obviously juddery scenes from PS3 with 60Hz and with 24Hz - I noticed the difference immediately. To my eyes, scenes that were VERY juddery are now slightly juddery and scenes that were a bit juddery are now perfect. Overall, the results are amazing...coming from a person that was not sensitive about it in the first place!
As for which films are 24Hz and which are not...this is probably a moot point as I'm sure that the PS3 (and other players) would play the films at the most relevant frame rate.
They should have made them 120Hz. The fools.
Can I ask which screen you are using?
LOL! yep i think i will be doing the same!!
Any ideas how much the 'Z' series is likely to cost? for a 42".
I did ideally want to get one this weekend. I have been waiting 6months so far, saving up and im not sure if i can wait even longer! lol. I might explode!
I know how you feel, I only bought the X as a stop gap because I knew I'd end up wanting the 'Z' series. I would guess the price to be approx £1400 - £1600 but it will drop very quickly - the 42 'X' was originally £1200 ish but can now be found for as little as £850 I think. I hate televisions... I'd far rather spend my hard earned on a new pair of speakers!!;-)
Yeah, it has taken a while to get the cash together and i really cant afford £1400 or cant afford to wait another 6months after release to see any dramatic changes in price.
I want a TV that i will have for 3+ years really.
All i need is to see one in action and see if i can live with the judder (if i notice it at all) if i can live with it, i will but it now.
LOL, i know what u mean!
Sorry if it's been asked, but I cant seem to get a definitive answer either way. Does anyone know whether a Sony KDL46W2000 can handle 24p?
I think my PS3 looks great running blu-ray at the moment, but If I can reduce the judder, happy days!
I may just be a little tooo critical but I personally cannot live with the judder. I'd rather watch any film on standard def dvd than in hi def looking like every thing was filmed by a camera man who had the shakes
LOL!!! Im exactly the same, thats what worries me about buying one now!
I take it the judders appear straight away when u start watching?
Yep, Xmen 3, the first scene is 'Judder' city - Casino Royal, Vertical Limit - just as bad. Kingdom of Heaven not as bad but that's more due to the style of filming than anything else.
Are you referring to Sony W2000 and PS3's '24Hz: On' setting? W2000 judders?
EDIT: You are probably referring to Toshiba 42X3030D?
No apollo11 was refering to the Sharp LC42XD1EA although people have also made references like this to the Toshiba.
Separate names with a comma.