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Sky HD to another room using Homeplug?

Discussion in 'CAT5 Cabling' started by paonessa, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. paonessa

    paonessa Member

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    Hi, apologies as I'm sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find any recent comments.

    I want to send sky high def to my upstairs tv but can't use wireless senders as it's 2 floors up. Don't want to run new cables outside the house so am wondering whether I can use an HDMI to CAt 5 convertor into a homeplug and then back thorugh a convertor and into a sky box at the other end?

    If so do I need an AV homplug rather than a "normal" one?

    Cheers
  2. HDC Techie

    HDC Techie Member Assured Advertiser

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    Not possible.

    http://www.hdcable.co.uk/hdmi?cat=73HDMI over Cat5 products will not work over home plugs.

    AV home plugs might work for SD.

    Or there is a product out there called HD juice box which is power line based.
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  3. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    As Jamie says HomePlug is not compatible with HDMI over Twisted pair solutions and there are currently no HomePlug HD video options.

    https://www.homeplug.org/tech/homeplug_tech_apps/

    Do you have a single CAT5 or CAT6 cable going to the location where you require the second HDTV?

    Joe
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  4. paonessa

    paonessa Member

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    Thanks for both your replies. Not sure what you mena by a single Cat 5 but the plug socket upstairs is a double plug if that helps?
  5. paonessa

    paonessa Member

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    In fact there's no cat 5 cable that's why I wanted to use mains. I'll have to run a CAt 5 outside the house to get it upstairs. The hdmi to cat 5 convertor I saw runs 2 cables for one signal.
  6. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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  7. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    Hi

    Have you looked at the HDJuiceBox product

    JUST HDMI

    Seems to do just what you are asking
  8. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    With compression plus the unknown of what your home mains will support!

    HomePlug in our house is OK for PC connectivity in some bits of the house but not others - its an old house that's been extended twice in the distant past!

    Joe
  9. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    If you have no Cat5 or coax cable already installed and can't or won't install cable it still seems a viable option.

    You are of course right it won't work in every case and CAt5/6 cable(s) would always be better but sometimes it may be the only solution.
  10. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    of course if you have a coax cable running then there are now HDMI over coax solutions
  11. mnpantas

    mnpantas Member

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    Can anybody tell me if using video baluns with the cat 5 cables still apply in this situation, i.e. when you folks are using Homeplug?
  12. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    HDMI over Twisted Pair (CAT5 or CAT6) solutions are not compatible with HomePlug.

    Joe
  13. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    The HDJuiceBox uses PowerLine (HomePlug) technology to transmit TV signals but actually has no need for CAt5 cables.

    Can I ask what you are trying to do and why you are asking about Baluns. As Joe has said, though there are HDMI over CAT5 solutions they are not interchangable with HomePlug as it is 2 completely seperate transmission methods.
  14. Spenny_B

    Spenny_B Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Please bear with me, but I'm confused....

    I'm also looking to do what the OP is describing, just get (ideally) HD telly up to the bedroom TV.

    I'm currently getting the feed using co-ax run directly from the RF output at the back of the SkyHD box, outside the house, into the loft and then into the bedroom, then using a Magic Eye to control the IR.

    I've got as far as buying a couple of "baluns" and an HDMI splitter (powered)...1 to go to the AV Amp, the other to a balun.

    I haven't got as far as buying any powerlink/power networking gear.....I then stumbled upon this thread, which has confused me (I'm a simple soul!!)

    I thought the latest 200Mbps and 500Mbps (and Belkins 1Gbps) kit was designed to stream HD content throughout the house...how would you do this, if HD over Cat5 isn't "do-able"?

    The Devolo site, for their 500Mbps kit, state applications including HD streaming:

    dLAN® 500 AVplus ... Application examples ... devolo AG

    What am I missing?

    Would a better way to do this be to use a pair of Netgear Universal Wi-Fi Adapters (WNCE2001)?

    i.e., SkyHD > HDMI Splitter > Balun Cat5 converter (#1) > Netgear WiFi Adapter > Home WiFi Network > Netgear Wifi Adapter > Balun (#2) > HDMI into the TV

    I believe the latest Sky router I'm now using is 801.1n rather than just "g".

    (Willing to retain the coax and Magic eye for just the IR control)

    Please help, my head hurts!
    Spencer.

    ETA - the above mentioned solutions (Juicebox, etc) are far more than I wanted to spend, this is just a case of trying to improve upon the RF feed I have that looks like early 1980's US quality broadcasts!
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
  15. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    Devolo and others are being ‘creative’ with the wording!

    You can ‘stream’ files from a central storage drive to your Networked HD capable media player (PS3, Xbox etc.) over the HomePlug! The Media Player then has to decode the files and Output an HD video/audio signal to your Display/AVR.

    HDMI over Twisted Pair extenders are dealing with decoded video that’s not packetized and requires bandwidths HomePlug cannot cope with.

    The HDMI over Twisted Pair solution simply use the same cable as the Transport medium (CAT5 or CAT6) everything else is not compatible with your computer ‘Network’.

    Joe
  16. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    Hi

    As Joe says it's a common confusion that because a router and most IP networks use CAt5/6 cable then people assume that HDMi over CAt5 is interoperable. However they are totally diffent methodologies.

    Your other option is to use HDMI over Coax which also send IR as well, but still around £360.

    SO as I see it your options are

    1. Stick with Rf Quality signal
    2. Run 2 new CAt5/6 cables to the 2nd location and use HDMI over Cat5/6 Baluns
    3. Use a HDMi Over Coax kit
    4. Use HDJuicebox over PowerLine (homePlug)
    5. Get another SKy subscription and use Sky MultiRoom
  17. Spenny_B

    Spenny_B Member

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    Thanks guys, that does indeed make it clearer...b****y marketeers...grrr!

    So, in essence, HDMI routing uses "ethernet" (cabling) but does not make use of the TCP/IP stack or ISO transport model...the cabling is purely a conduit.

    This was only really a tinkering "because I can" (or now can't) project, deffo not in the market for hundreds of ££'s...I'm rebuilding an engine for the "toy" at the moment, that takes priority, haha.

    So, I think my favourite option from those above, is running a pair of Cat5e or Cat6 cables along the same route as the current RF cable.

    I can try this easily by moving the bedroom tv downstairs and rigging up temporarily, then if successful, route longer cables...I think I'm within the limits of the baluns I've ordered. Just.

    Cheers again,
    S
  18. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    Hi

    It's the question we get asked a lot and a lot of confusion.

    If you can run Cat6, and if you able and can afford run an extra one at the same time you can never have enough cables run!!

    Which Baluns did you buy, and do they support IR as well down teh same Cat5/6 cable ?

    Seb
  19. Spenny_B

    Spenny_B Member

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    Ah this is the bit where I naval-stare in shame...in the name of experimentation, I went for some eBay cheap-n-cheerful ones...not arrived yet, only bought the other evening; they have the HDMI tail hard-wired, so that saves a couple of HDMI cables (inconvenience of mess more than anything, as the bedroom tv is "floating" with hidden wiring), and they have 2 x RJ45 ports. I wasn't worried whether IR was supported so didn't look closely at that in the spec, but really bought them to try and test the theory, if it worked, then spend £60-100 on some decent ones....as we know, it's proving not quite so straightforward...or rather...as I'd initially planned.
  20. mnpantas

    mnpantas Member

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    I see :)
  21. mnpantas

    mnpantas Member

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    You'd use video baluns on both ends of your home mains to avoid signal loss if that's the case right? i.e. for HDJuiceBox transmission method.
  22. Aclass Technology

    Aclass Technology Member Assured Advertiser

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    Hi

    Unfortunately I am not sure you have completely got the technicalities involved.

    1. If you are using an existing HomePlug Solution you cannot use this for streaming from Sky, BluRay etc as this is an IP type network and used for streaming from exisiting network device such as PC, Xbox, media player.

    2. If you are using HdJuiceBox this is seperate to an existing HomePlug you may have and if it will be suitable will be down to the bandwidth available on your Powerline. Adding baluns does not help as they are not interoperable. Any exisiting HomePlug will use up available bandwidth and could affect the performance of the HDJuiceBox.

    Sorry if this is confusing but if you look above at my earlier post regarding the methods available it should help, as a rule of thumb the different methods do not work together and you should chose just one.
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  23. mnpantas

    mnpantas Member

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    Thank you for your explanation. You're right, each method you've given above is really clear and straightforward. I better just choose one method and go with that entirely.
  24. Spenny_B

    Spenny_B Member

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    Evening guys,

    Well, my cheap-n-cheerful baluns finally arrived from Hong Kong. Quickly unbolted the bedroom tv from its mount to bring it downstairs for some experimentation using some spare Cat5e cables.

    After some initial head-scratching (feed from the AV amp worked but directly from the Sky HD box didn't), and a couple of power cycles, it worked really well, and I'm struggling to detect any picture quality drop on the Panny 50" with the HDMI splitter in place.

    Have to be honest an say I'm amazed that HD content can be converted and piped down these baluns, and the picture quality of the Samsung isn't too shabby at all, 10x better than what I was used to with RF feed.

    But..... I am getting "jittering" on the HD channels. Quite bad, every second or so.

    Now, I'm not too disappointed or surprised, this *was* an experiment.....if I were to now invest in some pukka baluns, is this likely to remove the jittering, or is this a trait of any balun that's converting HD > Ethernet?

    If not, then which brand of balun seems to be a good bet?

    (I may also now try and simplify things by including IR control rather than retaining my "magic eye" RF cable run).

    Thanks in advance fellas

    Spencer.
  25. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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  26. skytvwatcher

    skytvwatcher Member

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    Hi guys just joined the forum today as need to rack your intellectual brains for an ideal solution.......

    I see these options listed above and they seem fair but i have yet to reach a decision on how to play it. I am re-decorating at the min and while given the opportunity to i would like to wire the whole house as best i can for media purposes. Money isnt too much of an issue as i would rather do it right rather than have to do it again which i am sure someone very wise once said. I like the idea of the juice box but would rather have a permanant wired solution of high quality with as little connections to preserve quality as possible.

    First let me tell you what i would like to happen:

    Sky Hd in living room

    tv in kitchen connected to hd content
    tv in bedroom connected to hd content
    tv in bedroom no.2 connected to hd content

    all with ability to switch channels on sky reciever downstairs (although happy to be watching the same channel)

    my original thought was to run a hdmi splitter from the sky box sending the signal throughout the house. i like this idea........

    But i have seen so so many posts about people having a nightmare with splitters failing and need something secure. also concerned about quality loss over long lengths of hdmi cables.

    Ive been looking into the cat5/6 options and i see how this would work for signal quality loss from the cable run by using the:

    Megaview 61 HDMI & IR over cat5 extender kit
    Keene Retail Ltd, Electronics making AV happen, Products and accessories for video, photography, home cinema and AV

    but surely if using this device or similar i will need a hdmi splitter for all 3 extra locations anyway to feed 3 pairs of these transmitter/recievers. but this cant be the most practical or cost effective way not to mention having
    4 or so junctions or connections in the cable when i am trying to keep extra connections to a minimum.

    there must be a solution for this without comromising quality or relying on too many devices.

    And as for the HDMIjuicebox it looks like it solves this problem on one hand but it seems a shame to use this system when i have the opportunity and am prepared to run the cables where needed......

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated guys am open to all suggestions....

    thanks in advance for your time

    wow sorry i rambled on a bit
  27. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    Hello skytvwatcher

    Were soon to announce details of a new 1x1+3 HDMI + IR Distribution Amp – the Distribution Amp will have 1 x HDMI (local Display or AVR) + 3 x dual RJ45 Outputs to connect to up to three of our PoC (Power over Cable) In-room receivers via dual runs of CAT6 – the system includes IR pass-back from each of the three extended Zones.

    Joe
  28. angusjack

    angusjack Member

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    Hi guys,

    Similar issue here, currently sending both Sky HD and Humax Freeview HD via Rf to a second TV in the family room. picture quality is passable but could be better. I'd also like to be able to send my other sources to this room.

    All my sources (SKY HD, Freeview HD PVR, Apple TV, Blue ray player and AV receiver) are located in a downstairs in a central location and fed (via the AV receiver) to the main TV in the living room via a long HDMI cable which was pre installed in the house along with the speaker cables.

    In the family room I have a single coax and single cat6 behind the TV so plan to use an HDMI matrix and either HDMI over CAT5 or HDMI over Coax to transmit the sources to the TV. Question is would be the best option.

    Main disadvantage of the Coax option seems to be cost (although the systems are becoming more affordable ~£350)

    The advantages I can see are:

    - Better quality / transmission distance
    - All the bedrooms have coax so it would be easy to expand to more rooms.
    - No need to trace the Cat6 cable (there’s ~ 30 un-terminated cables in the central location)
  29. skytvwatcher

    skytvwatcher Member

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    Thanks alot Joe i will be eagerly awaiting and i will hold off until i find a descent solution sounds like a winner. I will be stable i trust??

    thnaks again


  30. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    ‘I will be stable i trust??’ – I guess that depends on how many beers you plan to have :smashin:

    Joe

    PS The Octava unit will be ‘stable’ – it has four feet!!!

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