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Sky HD and Triax 333112 wiring mess....!

Discussion in 'Sky Forum' started by Maxil, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    Quite right, and again I was agreeing with you, so you now have credit for it in my post. ;)
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  2. Maxil

    Maxil Member

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    Thanks to everyone for their kind advice and insights into my dilemma, it's always good to have a healthy debate! :thumbsup:

    My original concern was that the system that has been set up would work at all, as the renovation works had been completed and all the cables had were already buried in the walls- hence my horror when it was suggested 3 cables were necessary, when I had only got two in the main TV room.

    Incidentally, I have have subsequently called the company back, and spoke with an engineer with a bit more experience with distribution than the installers that showed up.

    I was just back from nights, but the gist was as follows:

    - He actually confirmed that 2 cables are fine to receive HD and distribute terrestrial TV around the house.

    - With 2 cables, I will not be able to distribute SkyTV to the other rooms using Magic eye. The only way then to get Sky in the other rooms would be to have a second sky box for multi room.

    In the other rooms I have already installed a Triplex Triax 304102 modular plate to the single coax cable laid by the original installer.

    See:Triax TV/FM/SAT Outlet Plate (Triplexed) 304102 - dastechnology.co.uk

    Guys, I've established that 2 cables are sufficient (phew!).

    What are your thoughts on distribution of Sky TV in the other rooms not being possible? Is what he said true that distribution of Sky is not possible without successive boxes?

    Will I still get HD quality picture in the other rooms?
  3. Stevenage Neil

    Stevenage Neil Active Member

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    Yet again you have been given duff information.

    Look here, especially at the TV's not connected to a Sat box.....bottom rightish...Tradeworks Ltd Triax DDU - Domestic Distribution Unit

    See the remote controllers and magic Eyes with each TV?

    Also look at this: Triax DDU112 Loft Box connection information and wall plates

    Look at the description of the outputs just underneath photo. All the outputs to non Sat box rooms quote "IR" - for magic Eye use.

    This will give you the ability to watch and control the main Sky box from other rooms - albeit only in SD.
  4. MartinPickering

    MartinPickering Active Member

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    Just for the record - but strictly off-topic for this discussion - a "Stacker/Destacker" allows you to have two LNB feeds on the same cable!
    I'll let you read about it but please note that I do not sell these:
    Johanssen Stacker-Destacker

    Back on topic - I don't understand the arguments about the capabilities of a Loft Box (or the DDU-112 in particular). My information page explains it quite clearly and omits no detail. I suspect the main problem is is that people can't be bothered to read the complete description.
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  5. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    That was only about the diagram linked in post #7 in which the connections to the PVR on the Down Link, and both to and from it on the Up Link, appear to be incorrect.
    That's wrong, and it's the point that we've gone into in the most detail.
    The details have been posted several times but here they are again.
    One cable carries SAT1 and FV down, the other carries SAT2 and IR control down and Sky RF2 Return back up.
    Each room can get that Return signal - the channel that's currently selected on the one Sky machine - and can send remote control back.
    That is in the lowest possible picture and audio quality, definitely not in HD.
    Add connections from the dish to the distributor and some rooms can also have a separate SAT feed for a separate receiver.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  6. Maxil

    Maxil Member

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    Once again, thanks again to everyone for their advice and input. I am merely an amateur so I apologise if I've not grasped things.

    @Logicel- thank you once again. As you have guessed, I am not overly familiar with the basic terminology. Apologies if I have not been able to keep up, to make matters worse, I just finished four night shifts averaging 13hrs each, so my brain is slightly fried! Lol
  7. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    That's OK, and apologies for when my posts have been rather talking down to you - always feel free to ask about anything that isn't clear.
    Logi
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  8. A8RICK

    A8RICK Member

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    Hope you guys dont mind me jumping on the back of this thread, ive read through the discussions (numerous times) with interest, and it has really helped a novice like me understand how this set-up works.

    A few questions still linger though if you guys will oblige?

    1. The UHF / DAB / FM aerials - Is a separate aerial required on the roof for each of these signals, as the diagram shows, or can you get 'all in one' aerials?

    2. The 'PVR Digibox' - Shown highlighted by the dotted box on the diagram i.e. the main reciever. I assume this to be my Sky+HD box? little confusing as it is not labelled 'SAT' like the other two?

    3. The quad LNB - Under exactly what circumstances is this required & what extra features does this allow? I assumes it allows the two additional 'SAT' recievers shown, but since there is only one aerial to these rooms, would these be 'standard' sky boxes, or could they be Sky+ / SkyHD boxes?

    4. Finally if the whole lot was wired-up as shown, but with the addition of a HDMI splitter to distribute the HD picture from Sky, would this work, or would there be a conflict somwhere?

    Any input appreciated,
    Cheers,
    R.
  9. MartinPickering

    MartinPickering Active Member

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    1. I believe a combined DAB FM-Omni is manufactured by someone, but I don't stock it. An Omni has no gain and (as the name suggests) picks up signals from all directions. I'm not keen on it. I don't think you can get a UHF aerial combined with anything (except maybe for caravan use). A conventional FM aerial is huge, by the way.

    2. It's spelt "receiver". It can be any satellite TV receiver.

    3. A quad-output LNB has four outputs, which are connected as indicated. The receivers can be any satellite TV receivers.

    4. The HDMI wiring would be completely separate, so there would be no conflict, although it would be pointless to have an RF connection to the same TV(s). You could, however, continue to use coaxial cable for remote control via "magic eyes" if you desired.

    By the way, in general (and most people don't seem to appreciate this), it's perfectly acceptable to use thin WF65 cable to carry the RF signal, as its losses at UHF frequencies are fairly low. In addition, if it's being used ONLY for remote control use, it doesn't need to be connected to a TV.
  10. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    Hi a8rick and welcome to the forum.
    Which diagram are you referring to - the first link in post #33?
    I get radio from the same ordinary aerial that provides terrestrial TV so one should be sufficient for you.
    A receiver does just that; a PVR both receives and records.
    Most Sky satellite dishes have a quad LNB, which simply provides four outputs, for any use as required.
    A PVR requires two of the outputs for full use, a receiver just the one.
    Splitting HD outputs from receivers and PVRs can be unreliable, and that applies especially to Sky machines.
  11. A8RICK

    A8RICK Member

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    Ok thanks guys,

    Really do appreciate your time, i need to carry out this work soon!!, in response:-

    1. I will just connect my current UHF aerial and see how I get on, hopefully this will be sufficient.
    2. Yes, that is the diagram I am looking at. The ‘PVR Digibox' will therefore be my Sky+HD box in the lounge with all record & HD features.
    3. So the ‘SAT' boxes in rooms shown for ‘TV 7' & ‘TV 8' can only receive, not record? If one of these rooms was sacrificed (say TV 8), so that TV 7 could then use both the aerials, would this then allow all record & HD features on TV 7 via another Sky+ HDbox? (presumably I would need multiroom from Sky to do this also).
    4. The HDMI distances would be relatively short (I could go via cat 6 though I guess). Being as it causes no conflict it may be worth a punt, you never know! Even though the RF connection would therefore not be required, isn't this same aerial providing terrestrial TV? (either way I would like to retain the remote control function as suggested).

    Final thing.… I am assuming I can add a freeview ‘PVR' to the other rooms (TV 1 – TV 6) to enable record & HD features via the single aerial connection, as well as the remote control function, this is correct?

    Sorry guys im trying, honest!

    Cheers,
    R.
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  12. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    If that aerial is getting you FV it will be fine.

    3 isn't about aerials, it's about connections to the satellite dish. If you have a receiver it needs only one connection. If you have a PVR it will work with only one connection as if it was a receiver. If you want it to record one programme while watching another it needs two. Any receiver or PVR will provide the free channels. If it's a Sky machine and you want it to receive the same channels that you get on the main Sky machine then you need to pay the multiroom susbcription and to have both machines connected to the same fixed telephone landline.

    The problem about extending the HD output from a satellite receiver is not about distance, it's about splitting the single output that the machines provide. As I said "Splitting HD outputs from receivers and PVRs can be unreliable, and that applies especially to Sky machines." If it's done and it works it's possible to include remote control in the cables, going back the other way. Again, aerials don't come into it at all.

    That aerial provides FV terrestrial to the TVs in any room. Some TVs can record those programmes. You can also have a FV PVR in any room. Both TVs and PVRs are controlled directly by their own remotes of course.

    HTH but feel free to ask for more - Logi
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  13. Stevenage Neil

    Stevenage Neil Active Member

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    That post is so wrong in so many instances that I can't be bothered to list them all...........:thumbsdow

    " Some TVs can record those programmes.".......:confused:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2013
  14. Stevenage Neil

    Stevenage Neil Active Member

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    Should be.

    Yes

    No, but they will only record the channel the box is set to.

    Yes and yes

    Yes but read Logi's warning about HDMI splitters.

    Yes.
  15. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    OK, so I omitted " to an external drive".
    There are fourteen specific "instances" - do a Perfection and give me some clues as to which ones.
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  16. Stevenage Neil

    Stevenage Neil Active Member

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    Beat me to it. :facepalm:
  17. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    Sometimes it's me first, sometimes it's you.
  18. Stevenage Neil

    Stevenage Neil Active Member

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    :smashin:
  19. A8RICK

    A8RICK Member

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    Thanks guys,

    That has really helped make the system much clearer to me, it's time to draw myself a schematic & make a list now!!

    Much appreciated,

    R.

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