Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Curly99, Dec 8, 2011.
what are these brightness pops?
I would not say in every scene, but mostly on dark scenes. It is quite simple: every time the scene you are watching the content on gets dark the TV tries to compensate this by suddenly adding 30-50% more of brightness returning to normal when the content changes to something more well lit.
For example, if you are watching a scene with a conversation with someone in a shadow and someone in the sun, every time the scene turns to the guy in the shadow you get suddenly a pop in brightness which then pops back when the image returns to the guy in the sun.
So, depending on the content you are watching this can be VERY annoying.
I have contacted Samsung about this and so far they don't acknowledge there is a problem. With the 2012 models coming I am a bit afraid they will never fix this and unless they tell me otherwise quite soon the TV is going back. Big brands sometimes can be so stupid and loose so much money over these things that it never ceases to amaze me. As they do not allow users to downgrade the firmware they could at least, if they are not planning to fix this, simply refactor an older firmware that did not have these problems with a higher number and place it online. It would take them 5 minutes to do this and problem solved. Instead they get TV's sent back, engineers to useless replace circuit boards and panels for nothing just not to admit they have a problem, a simple and very solvable one. The Panasonics had this problem too and Panasonic sorted it out quite quickly.
thanks for that explanation but does this affect all models in the Samsung plasma 2011 range?
For what I have read here in the forums, I may be wrong, but it looks like so. It is a trait of the lastest firmware they did, it is common to the 60'' models and at least to the D6900, I think.
Thats exactly what I saw. The picture kept swapping between a garden and then the inside of the house. Every time there was a brightness shift.
That would drive me insane, having to watch that
I was just wondering whether anyone else has any dead or stuck pixels on their set.
I checked it yesterday after setting it up and only found 2 black ones which could only be seen on a red background, so figured I'd keep it as it couldn't be seen under normal viewing conditions.
I've been out today and left the tv running test slides to help with burn in and get some hours on the screen.I had a quick check since coming in and found a black one on a blue background and several red ones and a green (or blue) on a white background.I'm bitterly disappointed to say the least.
Do these sets have problem panels or am I just unlucky?
I'm going to return this one and get a refund this time I think.Not really sure what else to go for after reading through all the issues other sets seem to be having as well.
one more thing, does anyone else's set have what looks (to me) like a greasy screen? I notice it on light backgrounds.Like it needs a good clean but doesn't come off when you wipe it.
I've had this TV for around a month now and I've found it to be very good. However recently I've noticed the standby light stays on when the TV is on. Has anyone else had this or know how to sort it?
Also have those suffering brightness pops tried turning off the options such as dynamic contrast and motion lighting? Turning those options off fixed it for me.
I got 2 red pixels stuck on the screen, i went back and change it but on the new one I still got one the same. Must something from the factory. It doesn`t bother me now but i will wait to see what happens in the future.
Panasonic TX-P50ST30B arrived today and here are my first impressions comparing side-by-side with the PS51D550:
1. Panasonic has a visibly better black level
2. Contrary to some reviews, the Panasonic's peak brightness appears on a par with the PS51D550 (even with cell light set to maximum)
3. Panasonic's whites appear 'whiter' out the box
4. Panasonic's 3D glasses (newer style) appear lighter and more comfortable than the SSG-30502 glasses I'm using with the PS51D550
5. Panasonic's sound quality through the onboard speakers is considerably inferior to the PS51D550 (much thinner and almost totally lacking any bass)
6. Panasonic panel is thinner
7. Panasonic picture appears a tad noisier (in terms of dithering / dot crawl) than the PS51D550
8. I tried plugging an external 2.5" HDD into the HDD-designated USB port on the Panasonic and it failed to power-up the drive properly. The PS51D550 has no trouble with the same drive.
Turning off everything that was Dynamic or "intelligent" was the very first thing I did after turning on the TV.
Perhaps because I have the Tv at 40% brightness and contrast this is more noticeable than with normal settings but it is there, very frequent and very annoying, Samsung should be ashamed.
I have read here and at Amazon that Panasonics had the same problem in the Summer but Panasonic acknowledged it straight away and in one month they had fixed it. I contacted Samsung about this and so far, after 4 emails all I got was "please reset the TV" and "we'll pass your comments to development team". Why is it so difficult for big brands to understand that this kind of attitude only makes them loose customers? About two weeks of development work to sort this problem costs them about £1000 this is by far less what they lose for having TVs returned and loosing customers.
I am considering returning my Samsung and getting one of these. However I've read here in the forum about the "green blobs" problem, have you noticed anything like that?
Are they visible when viewing the tv or do you only see then when looking for them?
I'm just wondering whether I'm being too picky in wanting one with no dead or stuck pixels.About 5 or 6 new ones popped up today in less than 24 hours.They can't be seen on normal viewing, only on the coloured screens I've used to aid the burn in process.
Other than the greasy looking screen I can't fault the picture.On my last set I noticed the brightness fluctuations quite a lot, but on this new one I've hardly seen any.
It says on the back that it was manufactured Dec 2011.Whether that makes any difference or not I don't know, or whether its because I'm running low settings while its running in.
Mine also says manufactured in December 2011 in Hungary. It has no dead pixels (thank you as this is the most irritating thing a display can have for me) but it has lots of brightness flutuations. I am afraid of exchanging the TV and getting one with dead pixels .
Perhaps this is a problem of the mainboard and if so a visit from a Samsung technician would sort it?
No, but then some people on the forums see things I don't. I also don't 'super analyse' the picture looking for flaws (that's not a criticism of people that do). If the 'green blobs' issue is obvious, I haven't seen it.
I haven't seen any brightness fluctuations or 'pops' on my PS51D550 after extensive use over the last 10 days, or so. That doesn't necessarily mean they're not there though!
Might be worth having a read of Samsung's warranty statement on dead pixels...
Warranty Information SAMSUNG
It's a bit ambiguous with regards how the above policy relates to plasma TVs (it does mention PDP, but the rest of the policy focuses on TFT-LCD monitors).
Personally, if I couldn't see a dead pixel(s) from my normal viewing distance, it wouldn't bother me. However, if more and more pixels starting having problems, I'd be concerned.
Thanks for the link.It seems that permanently lit pixels are covered for the first 7 days regardless of quantity.
I've been into Comet this morning to tell them about the dead pixels and they've told me I can return it for a refund.Just have to try and fit it in the car now, somehow lol.
I'd made my mind up that I was going to keep it when there were just the black ones on red background as they couldn't be seen any other time.It was just that when all the others popped up yesterday it really annoyed me and made me wonder whether more would pop up the longer I had the tv, and if it goes past the 28 day store policy, how much hassle I might get trying to get something done then.
If I was sure I'd get one with no pixel problems, or maybe just the one, then I'd try another one of these as I can't fault the picture it gives.
Problem I have now is I'd set myself on getting the 51D6900 from john lewis and it seems to be out of stock as its disappeared from the website.
I have my Panasonic BDT310 for few weeks now and I can see the full potential of the 3D and the PQ on full HD of my Samsung tv. I love the combination. The quality of the mkv file played on the bdt 310 is more superior then the same file played on the tv as a player.
I read every topic related to D550, but still cant conclude what exactly a 'brightness pop' is. As i understand it right now, the TV tries to compensate, when a scene goes very fast from very dark, to very bright, or the other way around, and a short interruption of the content occurs. Am i right or wrong? I tried seeing the pops in a shop today but the screen never 'interrupted', it stayed stable the whole time (all plasma screens from all brands). Does it only occurs with certain sources? Cause the shop uses a repeated video, with both promo stuff and actual trailers.
So far as I know only the Panasonics and the Samsungs have this problem. On the panasonics however this was sorted out quite quickly but on the Samsungs...
No, there is no interruption of content, only really the brightness going back and forth. Imagine that you had a button on your remote that could add and take out 30-40% brightness to the image. Now imagine that your kids were playing with that button while you watched TV. That's very much it.
I don't know if other Samsungs have this problem, the thread of the D6900 I think that talks about it as this one. All I know is that my TV does this and quite heavily in all sources.
So far the "support" from Samsung has been very much "live with it we couldn't care less".
I only shortly saw a D530 + D450 in a shop (D550 wasn't present), and the brightness didnt seem to 'suddenly change a lot' like you describe it. To bad the D530 was removed already today (most similar screen to the D550 in shop). I will check different stores. Hopefully one has the D550. Although the D530 is tempting (loose only 3D and two HDMI ports), i'm scared that maybe, the image processing unit will also be worse (removing 3D, means less calculations needed, maybe in 2D this has an impact). Since there's nowhere a review on the net of D530 i might skip it.
Right now i'm split between PS43D450 - 400 euro (as my room is damn small, 2,6 meter towards tv max, fewer if i sit forward, so this model seems good size, but no Full HD feels like a miss). PS51D530 cost 600 euro, but will have slow delivery, and no pixel/panel warranty. And last samsung D550 at 718 euro (most likely). Most panasonics, even cheapest (full hd) ones, are 750 euro+ so those seem not a good buy except the Panasonic 42GT30 wich has quite a high price in most shops, but wich i can get for 840 euro online. It's basically between these 4 i have to choose The D550 has the lead, but readings of firmware messing up with black levels and other stuff, have made me delay the purchase. The biggest downside (reflective screen) should be no issue at all, since the two light sources are pretty far away and i can blend them (closest one is a roof window, pretty small). Now i just want to ensure picture quality is good enough for me.
I got tons of PAL dvd's (use playstation 3 to scale them up, on 22" full hd lcd at the moment), lately i've been focusing purely on blu-ray since it's finally dropping a lot in price, and now that i bought lord of the rings, avatar, lost - complete series blu-ray a bigger screen is really tempting. I sometimes watch broadcast (Eu, 50 Hz), but that isnt my focus.
So far, AVforum (review + forum) has been the biggest information source on the D550 so far. Keep it coming i guess Thanks to all posters (read every single post last few days, from the very first D550 thread, until this one XD)
I have the same problem, for me it is when I am watching AVI's off of memory sticks. The audio goes silent for a second or two perhaps every hour or so. At first i thought it was the avi's with the problem, but actually you can rewind and watch the same section of video clip without the sound dropping out. Also the avi's play fine on my computer.
The other irritating thing is that whenever i watch a different TV it just seems inferior and I find i want to be watching/xboxing on my set rather than other peoples. This means I tend to have more people over which in turn leads to more clearing up after. I also tend to find i'm the one who gets the beers in before the session so ultimately spending a bit more cash. Perhaps I should buy nasty beer that no one wants to drink... One thing's for sure, the TV isn't going!
Something curious I noticed during the weekend is that the brightness flutuations are not only a lot more pronounced at 60Hz than at 50Hz as also they happen at different times. I was watching several times a very same clip from Inception and the pops happened at different times for each frequency. And, they were barely noticeable on Aerial Freeview.
I wonder if this is a power flutuation and as such a mainboard problem, instead of a firmware problem.
To be honest I am fed up with this, I was supposed to be enjoying my new TV, seeing some films, instead of playing detective with a quite expensive TV. What annoys me more is the very poor atitude from Samsung support, zero help, a pat in the back and get lost. It's a shame because this problem apart the image quality is just great.
After my last message I googled "60hz samsung brightness pop" and came up with this link:
Does your 2011 Samsung "D" plasma have brightness pops? - Page 37 - AVS Forum
It seems it is really a firmware problem and all D Samsungs have it. The attitude from Samsung is absolutely unbelievable. Why arent they upfront about this acknowledge the problem and fix it instead ignoring it waiting that people simply forget it. Something so simple, it wouldnt give them much work and they are treating their customers like garbage.
Since for some bizarre reason they do not allow users to downgrade firmwares they could simply release a previous previous firmware compiled with a higher version as an interim release until they finally sort this. At least we would be sure that they were working on this and would be confident that would not end with a very expensive piece of kit that only serves to get on our nerves.
Well, this is enough for me, I bought the TV to relax and instead I already had a week of misery. My set is going back tomorrow and Ill be getting a Panasonic or an LG, I still havent decided.
Thanks for the review, you mentioned side by side, did you buy both?
wrt point 1 was this with the lights out?
wrt point 3 odd there are complaints from ST30 owners that the white is not white
wrt point 7 this appears to be the opposite to what reviews/owners suggest
Do you notice any fan noise at all?
If I was you I would check the thread on this forum about the panasonics: according to most users there is a design flaw that makes the panels after around 200h develop green areas.
Well this is just amazing:
-Samsungs have brightness pops.
- The Panasonics have green blobs
- The LGs the glasses disconnect every 10 minutes and according to some users give poor image when connected to HTPCs.
Is there a brand that has a plasma that works?
I am close to buying the PS51D550. I wonder if 3 meters is a bit close for a screen this size? I have read good reviews about this TV. So I am on the verge of buying it. Any ideas?
Already got the ST30 with the green blobs hence why I was asking for comparison as an alternative
3 meter should be ok. 16:9 footage will look very big, give cinematic feeling, for 1:2.40 footage i feel the 51" is really nice since you loose a lot of your screen with black bars. I'm in a harder position then you 2-2,5 meter max Might often look from left to right as it's even bigger then my eye field. I finally got a chance to demo the D550 myself today (after visiting 6 shops, the last one had one - yay!). The screen is large, but in a big room you forget about that fast. And the small border imo make it feel 'smaller' once you get used to it. The cheaper panasonics have quite a tick border, making the large screen size more obvious. Once you get lost in the video footage, standing at 6 feet (almost 2 meter) in the shop, i suddenly forgot it was so big, and it didnt really bother (distract) me.
I think it's a matter of getting used to a size. I was scared of buying a 27" computer screen as i have only 70 cm room towards the screen (2,3 feet). I stepped up from 22". And to be honest i was already used to it after a week. Now every screen on my work (19-22") feels terrible small though.
And getting back on reviewing the D550. It was first on a SD canal it seemed not to good, some footage with picture about Hitler. It looks quite pixelized tbh, but it was quite te same on the Panasonics. In another shop on the D6910 and D530, the scaling was a lot better, wich makes me think, the source (broadcast) was already filmed in bad quality. I switched then to a HD channel and i could only think 'wow'. I stood there for 20 min, looking for floating blacks, inaccurate colors, brightness pops, etc. And i could not notice them at all. Did my very best, to look for any error, but wanst there tbh. Still could be tru that newer firmware destroys that. But since the D550 is in almost no shop to demo, i hope the stocks of online shops, are still 'old firmware', since only people that look on the internet, will know about the D550.
What i remember most is that the Tru black filters of panasonic and Samsung, compared to their neighbours without this feature, didnt look impressive. It's like everything on screen, (white and black) together were pumped down into a darker visual experience. Imo darker is not a better PQ. The peak brightness must stay the same while the tv try to produce better blacks, and i think these tv's failed at it. Of course the heavy light sources in the shops, make the 'brighter screens' (without black filter) pop more, making them look better. I can imagine its different at home. Plasma stays my favorite though. If a forest is on the screen, it looks way more natural then on LCD. Some old LCD's looked awful (all greens, looked way to yellow tinted, compared to the plasma's).
PS i could neither spot the 'green blob' (is the same as 50hz bug?) on the Panasonics.
Thanx. You're right about no demo bing available in the shops. That's annoying. Tomorrow I'll visit a shop in a town nearby. I hope it's on display there.
I am still in much doubt...It's 719 euro's....and that's a lot of money for me. But I like my films and gaming enough to invest. I have a 5 year old Samsung LCD, 720p, 32" and while it's good, I would like to upgrade to HD 1080p. Reading all the posts on these forums makes me paranoid though! Dead pixels, green blobs, brightness pops, juddering....Hell! I want a nice TV, not a nervous breakdown!
Three meters probably wouldn't even be too close to a 60+" screen, certainly not with HD content.
I sit a little over two meters from my PS51D550 and it's fine even for older SD content on TV. And perfect for HD content.
I've now had my D550 seven or eight months and I still love it for both 2D and 3D material - TV, movies and games.
As has been mentioned frequently, the main potential issue with this model is whether you can control the lighting conditions in the room, because the screen is very reflective (as a sidenote, this Christmas I tried using a new iMac for the first time in my life outside of store displays, and I was surprised to see that the screen was damn near as reflective with a curtained window opposite it, as the D550 is. Even more annoying on a computer screen than a TV).
I have a window directly opposite my TV and I didn't feel the window blinds were quite enough to keep reflections away during daylight, so I ended up putting a dark... I don't know the English word for one of those curtains you roll down, on top of the blinds.
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