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Rumour - MS Points will be gone by years end.

Discussion in 'Xbox 360 Forum' started by Bamford38, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. mattclarkie

    mattclarkie Active Member

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    How many people have both a 360 and PS3, not that many. So MS don't need to prove they are cheaper than Sony otherwise you buy a game on PS3. Even if you have both, you buy the DLC for the platform you own the game on, most people will choose one over the other because they prefer the controller, graphics or online service, not because DLC is 30p cheaper.

    I never even knew 800msp was officially £6.80, I'd certainly have thought harder about a few purchases if I knew 1200msp was ~£11. Although I buy prepaid cards at a lower price, ~£11 for an XBLA is a fortune.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
  2. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    Nice logic there, lol. If you don't have a 360, obviously this doesn't even affect you. I'm not even sure what that second sentence means.

    I buy lots of XBLA games per year. The most common price points is 800 MSP or £6.80. If I bought them all on PSN I'd have paid at least £1.19 more for almost all of them. The same for map packs and other add-ons. All of the DLC for games like COD, Fallout and GTA IV was £7.99/£11.99 on PSN, but £6.80/£10.20 on Live.

    Your argument makes no sense at all, unless you own a PS3 and 360 and you prefer the PS3 and buy all your stuff for that even though you know you're paying more. In my case, I own both but buy all downloadable games on the 360, so I don't want to see MSP disappear as it'll almost certainly mean that the prices go up.

    I'm obviously not the only one who compares the prices across the services: -

    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
  3. mattclarkie

    mattclarkie Active Member

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    Have you deliberately ignored the point I was making, or are you just incapable of understanding it?

    MS have no need to be cheaper than the competition on DLC or game prices, so MS points serve a different purpose for them, which is for people to not equate game purchases with money. At one time many people thought gamerscore and msp where the same thing and they could trade in their gamerscore for dlc.

    Any change from MS points would probably coincide with MS increasing prices. They could never raise from 800msp to 900msp without people noticing everything was more expensive, but going from 800msp (£6.80) to £7.50 would go completely unnoticed.
    MS could just increase the price of points, but people are more likely to notice points are more expensive than last week than the price of games in £ is higher than the £ value points used to be. Increasing the price of points would probably cause accounting issues with unspent points in accounts, MS likely declare mspoint revenue at the time they are spent rather than the time they are purchased, and let's not even get into giving publishers/devs their cut of game sales if the prices of points was to go up one day.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
  4. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    I didn't know what your point was. Perhaps your signature sums up your attitude to making your posts easy to comprehend.

    Wrong. People in this thread are saying that they buy on Live over PSN because the prices are cheaper. That includes me. If a game comes out earlier on PSN and I want it, as long as I know it's coming to Live later on I'll just wait. If the price on Live is the same or more, why would I wait? They will lose sales by raising the prices.

    Wrong. Not everyone is like you and owns an Xbox 360 for years, yet has only figured out what 800 MSP converts to today. Most people like to know what they're spending on something, but perhaps you go on holiday and fling 20 Euro notes in all directions as you walk down the street cos you think you're tossing pennies away, I dunno. I'd notice straight away. So would Tetlee and any of the other guys that frequent the XBLA section.
  5. Dinky Dragon

    Dinky Dragon Active Member

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    :eek:

    Calm down ladies! Everyone is getting a little heated as of late!

    I dont really play Arcade games but the ones I have, I purchased em for the 360. My PS3 is Blu Ray and PS3 Exclusives only.
  6. Lostsoul 301281

    Lostsoul 301281 Member

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    As long as there's still alternative ways if buying XBLA games/DLC.
    Such as buying a card from a store that has a code for that particular game/DLC.
    And as long as you can still buy gold memberships the way you currently can, in pre-paid card form.
    There's no way I'm putting my card details on my Xbox.
  7. Simon Coates

    Simon Coates Guest

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    I suppose the real question is, 'are they getting rid of prepaid cards?' I hope not, and I can't see that they would. If MS did then they'd have a real problem with low priced DLC i.e. avatar items, songs, in-game DLC etc...How could they process all those micro-transactions via a payment gateway - the processing costs would become prohibitive. Currently, prepaid points are a great solution to micro-transactions.

    The driving force behind ditching points seems to be coming from the Windows Phone/Zune side of the business. MS are trying to appeal to a much wider audience where the idea of buying points seems pointless (sorry!)

    If the rumours are true then, from an Xbox point of view, I think they are making a mistake. I'm going to contact someone 'on the inside' to see if I can find out a bit more info.

    Simon
  8. Simon Coates

    Simon Coates Guest

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    Phoned someone I know, as mentioned in post above:
    I was told that Microsoft are definitely changing the way they will sell XBLA and DLC.
    Trials have already begun on selling XBLA games on prepaid cards.
    See here - old news but relevant.

    Points system will most likely go, but prepaid cards to stay.
    I also found out when the next Xbox is getting launched :eek:
    Sworn to secrecy - sorry!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2012
  9. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    Here's the 3 downloadable games released on PSN and Live this week: -

    The Simpsons Arcade
    PSN: - £7.99
    Live: - £6.80

    Gotham City Imposters
    PSN: - £11.99
    Live: - £10.20

    Shank 2
    PSN: - £7.99
    Live: - £6.80

    Once MSP are gone, the above will no longer happen.
  10. mattclarkie

    mattclarkie Active Member

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    Isn't The Simpsons Arcade free to PSN+ subscribers, along with FFV, Far Cry 2 and many other games ;)
  11. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    PSN+ isn't free though is it? You are paying to get a selection of games for "free" while having no choice in what that selection is. That's why I don't pay for it.

    If you're comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges, Xbox Live is cheaper for buying content as you can see above.
  12. Brigggers

    Brigggers Member

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    Plus the games are only free while you subscribe to PSN+, cancel your sub and you cant play those games anymore so hardly relevant
  13. mattclarkie

    mattclarkie Active Member

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    Because Xbox Live Gold is completely free, and when there are offers they are always available to non-Gold subs.
  14. Bamford38

    Bamford38 Member

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    Theyre not talking about special offer prices.
    People on xbox live silver still get cheaper prices than non ps plus users
  15. Rorifett

    Rorifett Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you cancel live gold you can still play the games you've bought at a cheaper rate
  16. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    You don't need Xbox Live Gold in order to buy XBLA games at those prices.

    You do try your hardest to find the one atom of **** in the diamond, but this time there isn't one, lol.
  17. pixelpixel

    pixelpixel Active Member

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    Does this mean the end to Xbox rewards ?

    So far I have earned 1230 points from them. This month I got 400 points for doing something in December. My account did run out in January but silly me upgraded in December. I think the new sub only kicked in in January so they counted it as a January update and gave me the 400 points.
  18. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk Active Member

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    Are the prices cheaper on xbox live?, well sure because it's usually easier to find discounted points cards than it is psn cards. But do I actually save any money?, do I hell as that money I 'saved' just goes towards paying the yearly subscription so I don't see how I'm any better of tbh.

    I have both consoles and I buy the dlc for whatever platform I have the game on (obviously), but if it's a damn stupid price then i'll do without, I buy all my games for dirt cheap, but it seems daft for me to spend more on dlc than I paid for the game itself.
  19. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk Active Member

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    I for one wouldn't have had a clue what 800 points works out as, I've only ever bought 2100 cards @ £15 so that's the only rate I know of, I wouldn't stand a chance of working out how much of that £15 800 points is, if they were sold in easily divisible amounts like 400, 800, 1200, etc then I would know but I'm not going to sit down with a calculator and work it out.
  20. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk Active Member

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    How do you get those figures?, is that how much it costs to load the respective amount of points from your credit card into Xbox live?.
  21. Rorifett

    Rorifett Well-Known Member

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    However (and this is a big however...) if you don't have a gold membership i.e. a 'free' membership then yes, you do indeed save money compared to the free membership on PSN

    **** me, is this really what the world's come to? :facepalm:

    Hazarding a guess I'd say he maybe used a calculator... Internal or external
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  22. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    XBLA games are priced in 1 of 3 amounts: -

    400 = £3.40
    800 = £6.80
    1,200 = £10.20

    Once you know that 400 = £3.40 it doesn't take much to work out the rest anyway. Those are the highest prices you can pay on XBLA, so I haven't taken into account discounted MSP cards as that wouldn't be a fair comparison against PSN at full price.

    If you buy a 2,100 MSP card for £15 then you're paying these prices (rounded to the nearest penny): -

    400 = £2.86
    800 = £5.71
    1,200 = £8.57

    So you'd have to be buying £20 PSN cards for about £14 each to match the prices you're paying on Live.

    Arguments like this make no sense for a couple of reasons: -

    1. You don't need to buy Xbox Live Gold to buy downloadable XBLA games. If you're not paying for Live Gold, you save money by buying the XBLA versions of games because they're regularly cheaper.

    2. If you are paying for Xbox Live Gold, you'd be paying for it anyway, so you still save money by buying the cheaper version of downloadable games where you have an option. I'm referring to you as a dual console owner here.

    The only time your argument works is if you are choosing just one of the consoles to buy, then you can say "well XBLA is cheaper than PSN for games, but it'll cost you £25-£30 a year for Live Gold which may end up being more expensive", but then Live Gold gives you a bunch of things that PSN does not such as demos of all of the downloadable games, cross-game chat, party mode, voice messaging, private voice chat etc. so you take the free option and you don't have as good a system to play games with.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  23. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk Active Member

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    Can you also pay for dlc without the subscription?, like to get the upcoming Skyrim packs for example. I've only ever bought through the games themselves, I've never looked at the marketplace before, so I never knew you could buy them without a subbie.

    Rorifett - I didn't understand what you were getting at there, please explain. I don't know if you were trying to say that I should be able to do such sums in my head, or if it was a comment about me not being bothered to work it out.
  24. Rorifett

    Rorifett Well-Known Member

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    Just a commentary on you not being bothered about getting a calculator and then asking how DJ had come to his totals, just blew me away somewhat
  25. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk Active Member

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    I just didn't get where he was taking the figures from to do the calculations, I wasn't sure if he was using discounted codes, or comparing what came off his card for a 400 point transaction etc. Does say a 1200 point card have an official value?, ie a rrp set by Microsoft?.

    No chance of me doing calculations, maybe if there was something I wanted for 400, but even then if I had 400 points I would probably just click buy, even with a calculator it would take me 20 minutes to work that out.
  26. Alex_976

    Alex_976 Member

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    This is why I don't want the MS Points to disappear. Anyone who doesn't agree clearly doesn't like saving money.
  27. Rorifett

    Rorifett Well-Known Member

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    He was using the standard dashboard pricing (£4.25 for 500 points)

    If you've only bought 2100 point cards at £15 then the real value of the points is

    2100/1500 = 1.4 points per penny

    400 point game
    400/1.4 = £2.85

    800 point game
    800/1.4 = £5.71 etc

    As DJ showed above, for paying £7.99 on PSN you would pay the 'bog-standard' price of £6.80 on xbox but if you're buying 2100 point cards at £15 then you're getting that for £5.71, 'almost' half the price of the standard PSN price.
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  28. AdsterUK

    AdsterUK Member

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    I'm rarely one to defend Sony and never one to defend higher prices but...

    £5.71 is 71% of £7.99, well over 2/3rds.

    But if you are comparing discounted prices then you have to compare against discount PSN cards at £20 for £25 credit. This makes the £7.99 game have a real cost of £6.39. Its still more, but its not as much more as being indicated.
  29. DJSigma

    DJSigma New Member

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    The original comparison at full prices is in post #39.

    I only posted those other prices because someone said that that they pay £15 for 2,100 MSP cards and I did say that you would need to buy £20 PSN cards for £14 for the prices to work out the same as XBLA.

    And as it's kind of appropriate, here's the top 10 best selling "online time and point cards" for the UK in 2011 from GfK Chart-Track: -

    01 - Xbox Live 2,100 Points
    02 - Xbox Live 3 Month Gold Membership
    03 - Call Of Duty Back Ops 1,200 Points
    04 - Xbox Live 12 Month Gold Membership
    05 - Xbox Live 800 Microsoft Points Card
    06 - Xbox Live 4,200 Microsoft Points Card
    07 - Playstation Network Card (25)
    08 - World Of Warcraft 60 Day Time Card Activision
    09 - PlayStation Network Card (£20)
    10 - Xbox Live 12 Month Gold & 800 Points

    Now I know why the PS3 downloadable games section is full of tumbleweeds on AV Forums, lol.
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  30. Simon Coates

    Simon Coates Guest

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    Don't GfK use retailer's epos systems for their data. I don't think they collect data from online retailers like Play, Zavvi, Amazon etc... which are high sellers of this type of product. So I suppose the data might be a bit skewed.
    It can't be too far off from the truth though, unless PS owners mainly buy directly. However, it's very interesting data - thanks for posting.

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