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Ross HD Satellite receiver help needed getting foreign channels

Discussion in 'Satellite TV Forum' started by blazey25, Nov 28, 2010.

  1. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    i just joined the forum and i have just bought a Ross HD satellite reciever!!!!

    it is working perfectly fine with my old sky minidish and picking up all the uk free to view channels.

    only issue now is that i thought i might as well use the 65cm dish that came with the kit as a dish to pick up foreign satellite channels and i am struggling.

    the dish is now mounted and it is pointed at the astra 2/euro satellite @ 28.2 e with a signal quality of about 54% while also getting a similar signal quality on astra 1h 1m 1l at 19.2E but when i scan for channels, it only returns free to view uk channels. From checking the channel list @ www.lyngsat.com
    i was of the believe that i should be able to pick up the free to air foreign channels on the list.

    i know it should be able to pick up foreign channels as this was
    Option to receive 1,000's of FOREIGN Language channels from all over the world
    on the box

    The reciever has 10 preset satellites, the astra 1h, Hotbird, turksat,astra 2, eurobird2, asiasat, and some more.

    the reciever's manual

    my questions and issues are

    1.How can i get the foreign channels (preferably czech/slovak channels) i know they are mostly on the Astra 3b satellite (i know i will need to add this satellite but i am not sure of the exact parameters and how they fit in with the recievers setup)

    other satellite suggestions for foreign channels will be appreciated

    2 Can i use a splitter to connect both dishes into the reciever?
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  2. fernandez

    fernandez Active Member

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    To be able to receive signals from another satellite the dish must be pointed at that satellite.
    At the moment both your Sky dish and the 65cm dish are pointed at 28E so that's all you'll receive.
    There may well be a signal reading on other satellites as you have found, but this is only because the the receiver is 'seeing' a frequency and there are many similar frequencies used on all satellites.

    If you wish to connect two dishes pointed at different satellites to the receiver this can be done by means of a DiSEqC switch. Outputs from both dishes are fed to the switch and the output from the switch to the receiver which can then be programmed to select a dish for a particular satellite.

    You mention Astra 3B which is at 23.5E for Czech/Slovak channels however, looking at this
    Astra 3B at 23.5°E - LyngSat
    most of these are encrypted and require a subscription and a receiver that will accept a CAM for a viewing card.

    This is a useful site listing only FTA channels FlySat FTA TV Channels and you may also find KingOfSat - European Satellite Zapping & Directory a good source.

    Also have a search on here for 'multi LNB set-up'

    It's a big subject to try to explain in a few words, but you've come to the right place for help
    and to paraphrase a well-known TV programme 'research, research, research':)

    Good luck
  3. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    ^^^^ thanks fernandez, that makes perfect sense. all the research i have done more or less agree that i can use a DiSEqC switch. so i will order one of those.

    Now i understand that the other reads ifrom the other signal the box is indicating that its getting from the other satellites might not be genuine.

    so in summary there is no way i can point my satellite at astra 2b @28.2 and be getting the full signal from astra 3b? i will have to realign the dish i think.

    i have checked dishpointer.com and it seems i just need to move the dish very slightly to point it at astra 3b. My only issue now is that adding a new satellite on the reciever is causing a few problems.

    the 1st stage is simple enough, it just ask for the satellite details so all i need to input is the name and longitude. Then it back to a screen where i can edit the folowing parameters for the satellite:

    LNB type
    LNB low/high frequency
    how do i get these parameters especially the lnb frequencies?

    Also after editing this and trying to search for channels, it says no transponders. so from the menu option i go and add a new transponder to the satellite and it will ask for

    Transponder number
    Tp Frequency
    symbol rate
    polarisation

    most of the websites seem to have details of the symbol rate and some frequency details but for specific channels it seems.

    What would it be for lets say the astra 3b satellite, it seems the symbol rate is 27500 but i dont know the transponder number or the frequency?

    the astra 3b and thor 6 seems to be the only foreign channels that i want at the moment as my partner is from slovakia so even if i can get 6 channels fdrom that 1 i will be happy. Unless i decide to try and the channels that have some 3pm EPL kick-offs.

    Thanks once again fernandez.
  4. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    on second look it seems the preprogrammed satellites all av it set at the same and when i select my Lnb as universal there are some preset frequencies set. so i will try and use those.
  5. fernandez

    fernandez Active Member

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    If, at the moment, you are only using one dish then the receiver will only 'see' that dish and DiSEqC setting needn't bother you.
    The channels you require from 23.5E seem to be on the Pan European beam and a 65cm dish is indicated as being sufficient.

    Align your dish to 23.5E, select this on the list of satellites on the receiver menu and scan for channels. Most the frequencies/parameters will be pre-set in the receiver
    Leave the LNB setting as 'Universal'

    Depending on where you are a 65cm dish may be too small for 1W - check the footprints on lyngsat.
    Although there is some FTA EPL footie, a lot is encrypted and you may find this handy
    *** L.J.s LIVE Sport on Satellite TV. Live Soccer on TV. Live Football on Saetllite TV.
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  6. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    The channels depend on the alignment of the dish, not on the receiver - that can receive anything from any satellites that the dish or dishes to which it is connected are aligned.
    As fernandez said, there are very few Slovak channels - and also a few in Czech - on the 23.5E satellites, and most of those are encrypted. You might be able to buy viewing cards for these but they would probably require a CAM for use in the receiver so you need to check whether your receiver is suitable for the purpose.
    If you want to access both the UK channels on your Sky-type dish and the 23.5E ones on the new dish you need a DiSeqC switch for the receiver to select the appropriate one - again if it is suitable for that purpose.
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  7. fernandez

    fernandez Active Member

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    The receiver has no CAM slot but it does have DiSeqC control
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  8. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    50-50 on problems then!
    What about the dish size for 23.5 - would 65cm really be OK?
  9. fernandez

    fernandez Active Member

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  10. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    Thanks guys

    i cant thank you enough!!!

    i think its the parameters that have been pre programmed on the satellite reciever that is creating a problem for me.

    when i go to add the new satellite on the option menu, it initially gives a signal quality as if the dish is pointed at the astra 3b and i also get signal quality for astra 1h,l,m

    firstly i am not sure what frequency value i should be adding when editing the transponder information. it seems the symbol rate is preset at 22000 but it should be 27500 according to all the info around.

    When its set at 22000 i get a significant signal quality up to 60% but when i search the channels, its back to square 1 again not one foreign channel but the same free to view uk channels like the ones on astra 2b satellite. Then i changed the Symbol rate to 27500 and the 60% signal drops to 0. i am also perplexed as to if i need to change the frequency while editing the transponder info.

    Should i now leave the new setting as it is and realign the dish till i get some signal on with the new setting? i am also worried that if the parameters are wrong, then i could be there for ever trying to pick up a signal which will be impossible to get due to the wrong parameters?

    Another potential problem is the preset values of the pre loaded satellites on the box, most are identical apart from the longitude. For example astra 1h,l,m is preloaded under the following transponder parameters

    Transponder number 1/82
    frequency 10877
    symbol rate - 22000

    when i tried to align my dish to it, i got up to 60% signal strength but search didnt pick up any foreign channels. Annoyingly when i check the read on the preset astra 2b, that would also be at 60% thereby leaving me confused as to which satellite i am really pointing at.

    could it be that those parameters are wrong or am i missing a trick?
  11. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    Fernandez gave the essential information about receiving from the satellite of your choice:
    "Align your dish to 23.5E, select this on the list of satellites on the receiver menu and scan for channels. Most the frequencies/parameters will be pre-set in the receiver".
    You should not be doing any of those changes to the existing channel lists.
    He also explained why you are receiving indications of signal quality even though the dish is not aligned correctly: "There may well be a signal reading on other satellites as you have found, but this is only because the the receiver is 'seeing' a frequency and there are many similar frequencies used on all satellites". The receiver is looking for frequencies and if it finds them, but from a satellite other than the one you want, it still shows them. It has no way of "knowing" that the dish is not aligned!
    So, the first thing to do is to get the alignment right, without concerning yourself about the parameters.
    The way to do that sounds simple but it's not something that I'd take on!
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  12. fernandez

    fernandez Active Member

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  13. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    thanks guys sorry about my ignorance.

    i am absolutely clueless about these things.

    i now understand my need to align the dish but my biggest nemesis is the satelitte reciever menu option see image of what it looks like on page 10 of the manual linked below

    Reciever Manual

    When i am tuning, i think i am now stuck at recognising if the signal quality that i am picking up is for the right satellite and if i need to deliberately disregard the signal i pick up and keep looking for another signal in another direction that is more inline with the direction indicated in the dishpointer program (a bit higher and more to the right of the astra 2 @ 28.2E)

    information from the dish pointer program

    Your Location Satellite Data Dish Setup Data
    Latitude: 52.0428°
    Longitude: 1.1930° Name: 28.2E ASTRA 2A | ASTRA 2B | ASTRA 2D
    Distance: 39037km Motor Latitude: 52.0°
    Declination Angle: 7.5°
    Dish Elevation: °
    Elevation: 25.4°
    Azimuth (true): 147.1°
    Azimuth (magn.): 148.3°
    LNB Skew [?]: -12.0° Dish Skew [?]: 90.0°



    Your Location Satellite Data Dish Setup Data
    Latitude: 52.0431°
    Longitude: 1.1927° Name: 23.5E ASTRA 3A | ASTRA 3B
    Distance: 38891km Motor Latitude: 52.0°
    Declination Angle: 7.5°
    Dish Elevation: °
    Elevation: 26.9°
    Azimuth (true): 152.5°
    Azimuth (magn.): 153.7°
    LNB Skew [?]: -9.0° Dish Skew [?]: 90.0°

    So from everything you guys have said, my issue is all down to the satellite alignment!!!!!

    i will try to move the satellite slightly up and to the right to see if i get any other signals. it now makes sense that i am only recieving the FTA channels on 28.2 on the other satellites that i thought i was getting signals from.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2010
  14. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk Active Member

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    your house back wall is almost ideal for motorised - unless those trees are very high
  15. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    Page 8 has the most important information for you, including this - "DO NOT change any of the other settings on the Antenna Setting Menu, these have already been programmed into your receiver in the Factory" - which would have avoided you trying to change all those parameters earlier.
    So, yes, as you say, "my issue is all down to the satellite alignment" and doing that is something that I'd rather leave to an installer with his satellite tuning meter!
    As 4.2.4 says you have to "fine tune your signal reception" but to do that you have to "Use the signal level indicators as displayed in the two bars (Q= Quality, L=Level) towards the bottom of the Antenna Setting Menu".
    I don't see how you can do that when you're up a ladder at the dish - especially in this weather.
  16. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    Thanks once again guys

    i wished i did a bit of research before or i would have opted for a motorised dish.

    Anyways after now understanding that the fact that i am getting signals on the other satellites doesnt mean my dish is aligned to it and that the parameters even though they affect the way the reciever reads the signal are best left as they are, i had a 50 mins break from work and i went home and realigned the dish (luckily i can access and move it from my window) i shifted it to the right, happilly letting it lose the initial signal.

    To cut a long story short, the new astra 3b satellite i added started picking up a signal and when i checked the other pre-programmed satellite, the astra 2b still had signal signs but the fact that the channels i scanned from it had stopped working meant i knew i must be pointing to another dish.

    anyways the preprogrammed hotbird satellite was also picking up a strong signal so i wasnt sure if i was aligned with the astra 3b or hotbird. a quick scan picked up many foriegn channels and from memory RTS SAT, RIA sports POLONIA and PTV were picked up.

    a quick search seems to indicate they are on the Hotbird satellite.

    But i am as happy as can be for now that i can now pick up foreign channels for a start. i think i will still need to reallign the dish to the astra 3b to get the channels for the missus. But i can noworder the switch and connect both up to the reciever.


    thanks once again guys!!!!! will let you know how i get on.
  17. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    You're very lucky that you can do it through the window!
    That cuts out what I said: "I don't see how you can do that when you're up a ladder at the dish - especially in this weather" - though it must still be a chilly job.
    You began well by nudging the dish away from the Astra2 UK satellite group at 28E but then went much too far and hit on the group at 13E!
    It IS where you are, with the Polish Italian and other channels, but it's surprising that on the way you didn't see the stronger group at 19E.
    There's a lot on 13E for you to try out though, and it will give you the opportunity to wire up your DiSeqC switch and get the choice of its free channels and of the free UK ones.
    Some regular posters are keen on motorised systems, that they use for their satellite hobby, but for just the Slovak and UK channels it would have been an excessive solution.
    Did you check whether your receiver will be able to take viewing cards to decrypt the channels you want?
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  18. fernandez

    fernandez Active Member

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    There is no mention (or indication in the illustrations) in the user manual that this receiver has a card reader or CAM slot.
    The main site mentions "FREE SATELLITE" and "SUBSCRIPTION FREE" so, I would say, the answer is no - it's FTA only.

    http://www.ross.co.uk/satellite-tv/hd-satellite-kit
  19. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    Thanks again fernandez, as you said back in post #7 about the CAM slot.
    I thought there might be a slim chance of it having a built in CAM and card reader.

    The details begin well with "everything you need to receive stunning FREE SATELLITE High Definition TV from anywhere in the UK" which makes matters perfectly clear.
    When it goes on to "Option to receive 1,000's of FOREIGN Language channels from all over the world" the word FREE ought to have been included again.
    Finally at "There are many other Satellites with thousands of foreign language programs that can be accessed" they should have emphasised the word "accessed" as opposed to "watched".
    At this stage I would suggest to our original poster that he should give some thought to what he really wants from satellite TV, whether this receiver can give him what he wants, and even to include consideration of whether a new setup including a motorised dish would meet the needs better.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  20. CC1977

    CC1977 Member

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    A couple of things that might be of interest

    What's available in Czech

    good news / bad news

    I reckon that there are 40 or so Czech channels on Astra 3 @ 23.5 East. It looks like you would get about half f them maybe a few more) with a 65cm dish. You would need a bigger dish (guide says 100cm) to be sure to get the remainder.

    The bad news is that they are not free to air. As such, a subscription would be needed. As has been said, your Ross machine probably won't allow this.

    I guess that you could take the Ross kit back to the shop (B&Q?) and look into the subscription route... this could be through one dish with 2 / 3 lnbs and the diseqc switch and one receiver with the subscriptioncard option (if you need to get more than on satellite's worth of programmes to the same receiver)

    Given the proximity of the Astra satellites - an with a decent sized dish - I wouldn't think that you need the motorised option to get coverage across two or three of them - including Astra 3.

    dobre?

    hope that this helps
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  21. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    Thanks once again guys!!!!!

    I dont mind having the dish at all!! i guess my initial need for the dish was to get the free to view uk channels due to the fact that i thought there was no freeview in my area (based on the information on the freeview website) i guess a little bit of research would have saved me the money i spent on the kit as all i needed was a reciever to go with the Sky mini dish that was already at my house.

    Now that i have the sky dish pre aligned to the astra 2b channels, i wont mind using the dish for the foreign channels to be honest.

    Anyways i think i got a massive beginners luck as i can get alignment with the hotbird 6,8,9 and the Astra 1 satellites within seconds of reaching out from my window and adjusting the dish

    So as long as the satellite dish rack can hold, i can just shift the dish two nudges to either side to switch between the satellites. i know it wont be fine tuned but most of the channels i have stored from both seems to be showing clearly when i am aligned with the respective satellite.

    The only thing is that i seem to be missing the satellite at 23.5 E when i am adjusting the dish.

    TBH i might actually forego trying to get the astra 3b satellite but its only my male pride thats keeping me going as i told the wife that i will be able to get her some slovak/czech channels.

    As the astra 3b is not preset on the list of satellites on the reciever, i need to add it as a new satellite. So hopefuly i have added it correctly and i can hopefully pick the 6 FTA channels on that satellite.

    if i cant get that, i will just stick to the Astra 1 and hotbird satellites.
  22. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    So you ARE getting BOTH 13E and 19E, in turn?
    Your manual method of switching between them is certainly ingenious - and chilly!
    If you want to persevere for 23.5E fernandez' two links to satellite finding in an earlier post will help.
    Out of interest what satellites does the manual list as being programmed into the receiver?
  23. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    yes i am!!!! which is kind of making me think of abandoning the idea of getting 23.5E if i have to lose both.

    Not out of deliberate design but pure accident, i can access my dish from the smaller window (8inches by 30inches) so all i expose to the element is my arm when i reach out from the window.

    the preprogrammed satelites are


    astra 1 19.2E
    hotbird 13E
    turksat 42E
    astra 2/euro 1 28.2E
    euro 2 25.5E
    AsiaSat 105.5
    TelStar_18 138E
    Apstar 76.5
    Chinasat 115.5E
  24. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk Active Member

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    It is - can't believe how cold it was today - installing motorised dishes is great fun in this weather - :smashin: :)suicide:)
  25. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    most definetely, it was so cold when i was putting the dish up!!!!

    i want to order a diseqc switch, i see some cheap ones and some more expensive ones. Will any do? or is the quality paramount!!!
  26. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    A switch at anywhere between £5 and £10 from Ebay will be fine.
    Better check the receiver manual first to be sure it takes them!
    I tried the link to the manual as it's shown now but it crashes.
    The link you first gave and then edited works, and it confirms that it does do DiSeqc.

    I was planning on the guy doing my the long-awaited update of my 13/19 dish this week - no chance now.
    And you kept on going with the motors Pedro?! :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  27. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk Active Member

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    We use Technomate diseqc switches & Global & avoid the very cheap ebay ones- they work but a diseqc switch can add noise and drop signal.

    Yes, bad weather doesn't bother me- you're in the wrong game if bad weather bothers you, yesterday was cold though..
  28. CC1977

    CC1977 Member

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    Blazey - Are you planning to fit additional lnbs to go with the diseqc swtich - this would seem to be the only reason to buy the switch I think

    Having taken some fine advice from logicel and others on here, I managed to knock up a home made bar (for the lnbs) about a year ago as a complete noob and can now get 4 satellites via 3 lnbs (1 twin - running 2 receivers and 2 singles from a cheap 60cm round dish and cheap free to air receiver.

    1000 plus free programmes -but next to no Czech progs I think though

    I used a Vialuna switch from Embeesat - ebay (£7.00) plus Smart titanium lnbs from Systemsat direct - ebay (£can't remember - about £12 each I think).

    The bar cost nothing - the lnb holders were handmade out of 40mm pipe holders, a bit of wood and a bolt!

    ...bear in mind that all this jiggery pokery won't enable you to get the encrypted Czech channels though...
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  29. blazey25

    blazey25 Member

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    Thanks chrisisclub

    i was starting to explore that idea actually because now that i have calmed down from the initial euphoria of being able to shift my dish and pick up the alternate satellite. i realise the practicality of having to do that everytime i need to change satellites is not a very viable 1.

    So i am thinking of getting a cheap dual or quad LNB holder that i can align with the 13E and 19.2E or 23.5E satellites.

    if i was to get a dual Lnb holder and get a dual/quad lnd to go next to the Lnb that already came with the dish will that be sufficient?
  30. logiciel

    logiciel Moderator

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    For 13 and 19 you can get one monobloc LNB.
    You might be able to add a separate single LNB for 23.5 but it will be a tight fit.
    The alternative would be a separate LNB for each position.
    I'd settle on one satellite for that dish, probably 19, and use the DiSeqC switch for that and for the input from the Sky dish.
    Quad LNBs don't come into this - they're needed only for watching one channel while watching another on a Sky receiver/recorder.
    Dual LNBs are quite unusual and also don't come into it for just the one receiver.
    chrisisclub has obviously set up quite an elaborate and interesting system, but from all you've said I don't think that's what you're looking for.
    It certainly calls for some skills and nerve that are outside of my experience!
    I always respect Pedro and his comments on the switch make sense, but chrisisclub's experience with the one from EBay matches mine - it cost about the same and has been working quietly away for ages now with total success.

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