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Rel Q50 setup

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by smallangryboy, May 11, 2003.

  1. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    I'm now the proud owner of a Rel Q50 sub. I'm a bit of a virgin when it comes to subs so I need advice on setup.

    Basically I'm looking to have the sub in use for both movies and stereo, partnered up to Monitor Audio silver 8i's. It came with about 6m of Van Damme phono cable (now I discover I need about 11m !),

    From my understanding of the manual, I seem to need what's called a Neutrik cable for the sub to work when playing in Stereo ?
  2. sounddog

    sounddog Member

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    Yes you need a Neutrik Speakon connector to use the high level connection.

    Any dealer who sells REL subs should be able to make / get you one.

    As for a longer cable ... if you can solder ... check out Maplins and make your own cable up.
  3. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly Guest

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    The main problem with using a subwoofer with high level & low-level is

    1) Subwoofer needs seperate high-level & low-level volume controls, as the high-level input will no doubt be a totally different volume from the low-level.

    2) For AV, you want .1 LFE only. If you've got high-level connected then sound from the speaker outputs will also be sent to the sub. And vice versa, for music the .1 LFE output could also send audio to the sub.

    If your AV amp can allow the LFE output to be disabled (fully range directed to the speaker outputs) during 2 channel would be very useful.

    And for stereo use, connect the high-level to speaker outputs two, so you can switch the signal off for films.
  4. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX Member

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    Adam.

    Nice site.

    I would stick with low level in your particular instance and requirement.
    Going at high level can make Bass management "messy", if all speakers are set to small.
    There are only a handful, if that, that are profficient in their B.M routines.
    For stereo replay your Arcam will sum left and right to downmix.

    For anyone else who could care less, my latest little project over the next few weeks will be thus:

    Mr REL will tell us that connect a REL at high level will give us the "best" results given the common source of signal, "theres something in that i hear you say".
    What i am going to look at via subjective and scope test, is if we place an amplifier understress either via sheer output or massive amounts of LFE and redirected signals does the increased levels of distortion/etc become mirrored in the sub's peformance.
    I am expecting that indeed it will, independant internal amps regardless the sub will have to work with the same "mess".
    Your thoughts?

    Also for what it is worth when connecting a new Rel Stentor to my kit recently we far prefered it's peformance when connected at low level to the 32r than connected at high level to my amps, which i knew would be the case given (sorry Nathan) the Tag's outstanding lfe output.
    I am of a mind that the high/low affair is relevent to performance of the individual component.

    Steve.
  5. EvilMudge

    EvilMudge Guest

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    I see where you are going Steve, but you need to bear one thing in mind. If you go for the high level route, the impedance at frequencies below the crossover is far, far higher than above it, typically 6-12 Ohms above the XOver point (unless using ribbons or electrostatics) and 1MOhm or more below the XOver. So effectively the amplifier will not be unduly stressed by this method. That is assuming that the REL has a crossover and not a low pass + bypass network.

    Though I do have to agree on the crap in-crap out principle.
  6. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX Member

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    Mark.
    Perhaps i have not explained myself?
    Yes i am fully aware of your points, however the test will be using a pair of Kef Ref 102's, a Cyrus 2 and PSX and a first generation Rel Stentor (which does not have a low level input). connected at high level (via XLR which was whe connection method employed on this unit) in conjunction WITH the Kef's.
    With this sort of arrangment the amp WILL see the full load presented by the kef's (which is reasonably stiff) and the Rel set at around 30ish hz in this respect there is "no let up " for the amp" and all results will be based purely on real world performance rather than "projected scenario's".
    The Rel crossover setting is irrelavant to this test.
    The Cyrus will be connected in AV "mode" to a Yamaha DSP800 with NO SUB specified, rears and center SMALL, front Large

    Steve.
  7. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    So general opinion is to use one or the other, not both ( even though Rel estowes the virtues of this in it's manual)

    I'm still bloody confused about these cables ! All I know is that using the single phono, bass extension is excellent on movies (as you'd expect) but almost non existant when playing stereo - is that purely down to the bass management of the Arcam amp and / or the volume settings ?

    If I use the Neutrik connector instead, will this give me more flexibility to tailor the sub when using stereo or surround sources ?

    Sorry if I seem a little dumb - it's because I am !

    (sorry if I've cut into your thread !)
  8. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly Guest

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    What I would do first is to borrow a cheap set of leads first and try getting it to work.

    I've got a Rel Storm V1. It has only one gain control- it hasen't got two seperate volume controls. It was impossible to get the correct balance for high-level and low-level, also my processor was sending double bass (using speaker level, but the processor was also sending .1 LFE)

    In the end I just bought a small Yamaha sub for music, keeping the Storm for .1 LFE.
  9. MikeK

    MikeK Guest

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    All I know is that using the single phono, bass extension is excellent on movies (as you'd expect) but almost non existant when playing stereo - is that purely down to the bass management of the Arcam amp and / or the volume settings ?


    Could be several things - not least of which is maybe that's how it's supposed to sound. For most stereo recordings, there's little content below about 40Hz, and it's no surprise that you find the bass has lesser impact than when listening to movies.
    IMO, the last thing you want is the sub turned up too high!
  10. bunkerbuster2

    bunkerbuster2 Guest

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    I totally agree with this post, in my experience, you should tweak the sub till you can hardly hear it with music....and then turn it down a bit more!!
    After listening to a few albums you know well...turn the sub off and listen again..I guarantee you'll notice it missing.
  11. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    Cheers, I'll have a go at correctly setting it up (when I'm allowed to take it back out of the box - it's been wrapped up again for my birthday:( )
  12. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    Guess I'd still like the Neutrik Speakon, and phono cable for when I unbox it. As it will have to sit about 11 - 12m from the amp (can't quite convince my girlfriend to dig up the floor and have a straight run to the sub!)
  13. Mr Pleasant

    Mr Pleasant Member

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    SAB, for your info, I am currently using a REL Q50 for music and movies, at high and low level. To be honest, I find more of a difference between different recordings when it comes to volume level than between high and low input methods. If I had separate volume controls I'm not sure I'd use them.
  14. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    I grabbed hold of a copy of some Organ works (no not people playing their lungs, heart or other vital organs) and put this on with the sub, but using the low level input and the Arcam, no bass is being transferred to the sub regardless of volume or crossover settings.

    I assume this is because the limited bass management of the Arcam is only playing the .1 channel to the sub, and when in Stereo is not using this at all.

    So (and I'm not trying to **** anyone off who has offered me some sound advice on this thread) I think I do need to experiment with using the high level input, if not both at the same time.
  15. bunkerbuster2

    bunkerbuster2 Guest

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    Just made you one up, Neutrik 10m - 3 way van damme banana terminated.


    £20 plus postage.
  16. Noodle

    Noodle Member

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    I'm sure this is true. I think I've read that one of the improvements of the AVR200 was that it would allow you to use a subwoofer whilst in 'stereo'.

    Even so, I've got an AVR200 & a Q150 and I use both high & low simultaneously. I've got my fronts (MA Silver 6) set as large and the sub crossover set to take over where the MA's roll off (high level) and the low level is for the LFE channel. This also means that when playing stereo material the sub is only active for anything that my speakers can't play.
  17. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    OK - sounds sensible. I'll have a try setting my system up in a similar manner when i get the Neutrik cable. My Silver 8i's (though probably not as good as the new 6's) still go reasonably low so I shouldn't have problems setting them to large, and rears / centre small...
  18. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    Noodle

    was also going to ask, is it worth upgrading to the AVR 200 from the 100 ? Still stung by all the palava I had with Arcam a couple of years ago getting the AVR 100 and DV 88 - had to replace the DVD player 3 times ! Thinking of throwing in the AVR100 for something totally different, though love the Arcam sound. Maybe a secondhand version of the AVR 200 - how much do they go for ?
  19. sounddog

    sounddog Member

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    smallangryboy ... what's your budget to replace your AVR100 ... the AVR200 is still good in stereo compared with a lot of its competition ... but in HC mode its quite lacking.

    I'd listen to the NAD T752 as a starting point for a musical sounding HC amp.

    Vikki
  20. smallangryboy

    smallangryboy Member

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    NAD T752 sounds like a good starting point, I'll try and get a demo, thanks.
  21. Noodle

    Noodle Member

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    I tend to agree that the AVR200 is now somewhat overpriced as it's movie performance is def lacking compared to similar priced competition....and yet I still bought one.

    Why??

    Because I demo'd it at home and really preferred the sound of the Arcam in stereo to the Sony 555 I was comparing it to. I found that although the Sony was better for AV use, I soon got used to the Arcam again. I never got used to the sound of the Sony in stereo.

    I'm really happy with the AVR200, it's a good all rounder, that seems easy to live with whether I'm watching TV at 6am or listening to drum n' bass with the neigbours out.

    It's still too expensive though.

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