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Panasonic V20 info/reviews/owners thread *Part 5*

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Curly99, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    No, certain source material will trigger the effect but it's not inherent if that's what you mean. They wouldn't encode floating blacks into a BD on purpose...
  2. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    I use a Vbox HD and SD has posterizing/false contours, strangely I don't notice it all the time but it can be quite bad, even in cinema now:rolleyes: my set does seem to be changing a lot, ether that or I'm noticing things more and more. Interestingly I noticed some false contouring recently on my mates G15 for the first time, clear as day it was, never noticed it before.

    The 50hz issue where you get a double image (white lines on footy pitch) isn't apparent on my set, think I noticed it once during the world cup.

    My biggest gripe with the V20 is the buzzing, SD issues just add to my frustration more than anything.
  3. mkel78

    mkel78 Member

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    --
    False Contours on non film based matarials Soaps especially - Eastenders is shocking but interestingly if you change the lighting in the room and adjust the brightness on the display it disappears, If I put my main ceiling light on (very bright) it is very obvious, but if I use the dimmer lamp on the other side of the room it's barely there, and in complete darkness or natural sun light it disappears!! :confused:

    This points to the whole "some individuals are more sesitive to it than others" perhaps being down to the lighting conditions in thier rooms?

    I have always been sensitive to flicker and this also reduces in daylight but appears when the room is dark!!

    Oh and I solved the buzzing on my set (wall monuted) by putting a piece of card between the bracket and the TV!! I'm not sure if this is the way you have yours, but its worth a try!!


    Cheers,

    Matt
  4. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    I guess lighting will effect how you see things as changing light levels effect you iris, so prob more to do with your eyes than the TV. Changing the brightness/contrast can help but wont get rid of it as its a limitation of the set. Ironically it seems the nice clean picture the set produces makes this issue standout more, a picture that contains more noise(dithering) would disguise the issue to a degree. My PX80 didn't seem to have this issue but it was a noisier image. The more I look into it the more it seems to be something that we have to live with if we want a clean image. Maybe someone who knows more about this can elaborate.

    My set is on a stand and the buzzing is clearly an electrical issue with the componants inside rather than the TV casing, thanks for the suggestion though:smashin:
  5. dudeonline

    dudeonline Member

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    Isn't this due to lack of colour data in the broadcast? The fact that HD suffers less shows that SD content very often has less data, some worse than others.

    I liken this to a poor quality jpeg that will show posterisation and a high quality jpeg or tiff file that has enough data for full colour representation and therefore doesn't (or is a lot less). Posterisation is caused when there is a gap in data. We can't blame the TV for that if thats the case.
  6. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    That makes sense and would explain a lot, except for the fact some sets don't show the issue as badly. Maybe ''limitation was the wrong word'':) I believe some sets use dithering (Kuros etc) and this can disguise the issue, some broadcasts are also quite low res making the image more pixelated which I guess would also disguise the issue. Banding with HD is def the sets limitations though is it not?
    Though I don't notice a lot of false contouring with bluray I can see it via my Vbox watching Outcast in HD and some other programs. Maybe its a mix of what the broadcaster is sending and the limitations of the set?
  7. dudeonline

    dudeonline Member

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    Maybe some have a way of compensating. Early TVs have a lower gamut than todays so I would expect the problem to be worse in older sets, certainly from Panasonics point of view. I wouldn't write off posterisation in HD due to the broadcast (if its the cause of the problems), again there are good and bad HD (lower quality) broadcasts. I would expect blu ray to be the best consistently. It could though as you say, also be in part due to the limitations of the set, i.e. what the set is capable if displaying (its gamut) but in SD I think its more likely to be the broadcast since colour gamut has improved vastly over older sets.
  8. Morganwg

    Morganwg Member

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    Hi, had the 42" for nearly 2 months now (Scooby cheers for the advice, loving the tv, avatar superb!!!). I have noticed all the issues mentioned, but they don't really bother me, well sometimes I think the tv gives me tinnitus, the floating blacks I have seen a few times on blu ray, but overall not too concerned.

    One problem that has caught my eye, and again I try not to look for it is, I have a faint vertical line near the right of the screen that is about an inch or so wide which is only visible when the screen pans left or right, football is the worst offender for showing this. Do you think this would classed as a fault? It seems to be worse on blues/greens when quick panning, but you can see it when there is, say a lot of sky or one colour, it looks like a slightly darker/lighter line than the rest of the picture and runs down the whole the screen, again I can sort of live with this. Cheers
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley Member

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    You know, I'd never heard of posterisation (well, I had, but not connected with plasma tv's) and DFC issues when I had my PX80 set up as my main tv. I am not saying that perhaps "behind the scenes" these scenario's weren't ocurring a little, but I never, ever noticed anything like this whilst watching SD material on the PX80.

    Got the V20 and my goodness - it's appalling - especially as someone else pointed out on soaps like EastEnders.

    I personally think it's the limitation of the set - as I say, I never noticed this what so ever with my older PX80... Friends who have plasma (not Panasonic I hasten to add) also don't tend to experience this problem either. So, whilst this may be going on a little anyway, it's down to the set and how it handles these problems at the end of the day.

    As I say, my V20 displays these issue's so badly that I dread watching it at times..... I have a loan set from my retailer at present (whilst they demo the V20 in store to watch out for the floating blacks that are bad on mine)...the loan set is a Sony 40" LCD - and - it's a joy to watch!

    Honestly, I do prefer plasma technlogy and picture, but, with ALL the problems I've had with my V20 (most of which are "within spec" according to Panasonic) I am really, seriously, put off plasma - and Panasonic in general.

    Whilst the LCD I have on loan doesn't obviously have such good viewing angles, other than that, on SD material, I can't fault it - it is sooo nice to watch a tv that doesn't buzz/display False Contouring/DFC/flicker/floating blacks etc...
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  10. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    :smashin: Glad your happy fella:) Avatar is prob the best looker in my collection for the pure wow factor :cool:

    Sounds like you have a fault there, I've heard of similar things on here and they were faulty sets. Sorry I cant tell you what it is, maybe some cells are damaged or something, I can only guess I'm afraid, you say its just with motion? I'd def take it back mate, has it always been there? If its there on a static image and wasn't there before it may just be some bad IR, can you post a pic?
  11. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    I was the same with my PX80, but I found it a bit dull and noisy compared to the V20, maybe the noise and lower contrast helped hide the issue? I know when creating textures you can completely hid bands of colour by just adding a noise filter. I was also reading on a site today that dithering on a plasma does help disguise the issue, think I've read it on here somewhere too.

    I'm shocked your liking the LCD:eek::laugh: I had a Sony LCD when my V20 was in shop, bloomin horrible thing it was!, not only did it have bad contrast with the worse black levels in the entire universe, but it also buzzed more than my V20! shocking thing...mind you it was an old one. I've def seen better LCDs but nothing yet to compare to the V20 even with the issues.
  12. welshtommo

    welshtommo Member

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    The more I watch, the more I believe that posterization is down to the quality of the source and not the fault of the set. Also,perhaps the picture quality and high levels of contrast available with this set merely highlight the problem? I see posterization on BBC and ITV SD soaps like Coronation Street and Eastenders (I sit through them while my wife watches, honest!), and almost exclusively on skin tones, but very little on other broadcasts. We have just watched two episodes of The Event, recorded from Ch4 and there was nothing. Didn't notice it on the first series of Spartacus on Sky 1 either, and that had lots of flesh in it! Never seen anything of the sort on blu ray.
  13. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    This is what I'm starting to think, sort of ironic really that good PQ can actually give you bad PQ....if you know what I mean:laugh:. I've mentioned this before a good while ago but have never had conformation from any experts on here, not that I remember anyway.
    It makes sense to me especially from what I've been reading on false contouring. The set does have some effect on it though, I've seen banding on blurays the set just cant produce all the colours needed, the garage in Iron man is a good example, also an episode of Band of brothers, though that was re-mastered from SD. Have to say there is less banding with bluray on this set compared to my old PX80, that set was so dull compared to the V20 too.
  14. mkel78

    mkel78 Member

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    I think it's down to the film recording technique and the handling of a 50hz output source by the tv, I grabbed a hd rip of eastenders and played it on my USB blu-ray at an output of 60hz although there was judder there was no false contouring and halos around people's faces when they move. I do not see this on film based matarial running from a 50hz source. Watching the Bourne supremacy on itv2 hd right now on sky hd box and the picture and motion is
    excellent.
  15. welshtommo

    welshtommo Member

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    So are you saying you think it is a combination of both the quality of the source and the handling of 50hz by the tv? I only see it with SD. If it was the tv alone, I would guess we would see these problems on all SD sources, on all channels? How much of a difference can there be in the quality of film recorded by different tv production companies and broadcast in SD?
  16. welshtommo

    welshtommo Member

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    Yep, I know exactly what you mean!
  17. Inferno

    Inferno Active Member

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    Isn't it also down to how much bandwith each channel has and therefore the bigger the bandwith the less compression and therefore a cleaner picture with less compression, and by the way i have always subscribed to the this theory you are mentioning now.
  18. welshtommo

    welshtommo Member

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    I've no idea as I'm no expert, but it certainly sounds feasible.
  19. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    So basically its the fault of broadcasters using low bandwidths and Panasonic for making a TV thats just too good for what its receiving.....so I dont need to spend stupid money on my next set then, if I want less posterizing I need an inferior set.....do Tesco make plasmas? or maybe Asda?:laugh::devil:
  20. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley Member

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    I think you are quite correct in that you can watch some SD material and never seemingly notice this effect - again, on EE, skin tones and hair are awful if someone moves quickly - they turn a purply/greenish oily mess!

    However, whilst perhaps the tv concentrating on giving the best possible picture it "shows up" these scenario's, I do still consider this to be an issue with the television - it should, like other brands and models be able to cope with somehow disgusing these issues - I don't think these are "brand new" issues that have only arisen since production began on these tv's - the fact that they display this false contouring etc is still very poor and something that should have been accounted for. I have also noticed it badly on some ITV2 stuff as well (not soaps) so I feel it should have been addressed.

    It's not really good enough for a tv to behave in this way - especially one costing (for me) just over £1,200!
  21. welshtommo

    welshtommo Member

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    :suicide:
    Yep, since reading up about the issues, I am now aware that some companies have technology built into their sets to counter the effect. Apparently, Samsung do and Pioneer did. I don't know why Panny couldn't transfer this technology and knowledge to their sets, being that they allegedly have Pio technicians on board. :suicide:
  22. Inferno

    Inferno Active Member

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    Yes they do, or have them made for them Teknica and oh ermm well i cant remember but yes.

    Oh its ONN or spelt something like that.
  23. Scooby2000

    Scooby2000 Moderator Staff Member

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    No! Really?! I was joking:laugh: I thought they only had LCDs, god dread to think how bad their plasmas are.:eek:.......you having me on?;) never seen one.
  24. Dumachi

    Dumachi Well-Known Member

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    My Asda sells plasmas, Samsung and LGS.

    They stock 6 series Samsungs but put 1 series on display with horrible IR, but you really are getting a 6 series and they wonder why they never sell a thing.... lol. Same goes for the LCDs.
  25. Morganwg

    Morganwg Member

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    Cheers Scooby, Like I said it is a very faint line, I have had this tv for nearly 2mths now and I love it. I will see if it bugs me enough to get in touch with the dealer.
    Whatever film I throw at this tv it is the dogs gonads! Iron man2, transformers1&2, all top notch. Haven't tried a normal dvd, or any gaming yet to see what it is like, but I can guess it is very good. Cheers.
  26. monkeez

    monkeez Member

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    I've just had a John Lewis pricematch accepted for this TV.
    Do i go for this or not?
    I will be using it mainly for SD material and gaming.
  27. Morganwg

    Morganwg Member

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    To be honest my personal opinion is that this tv is suited to HD material which it is the best at, blu ray/gaming etc. I haven't tried ps3 games as yet so can't comment on this, but I have heard it is superb. What price have you pricematched it at??? Might want to look at the cheaper alternatives, but if you want the best tv of 2010 look no further.
  28. Lancia34

    Lancia34 Active Member

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    Was that John Lewis pricematching someone else such as Dixons or the other way round?
  29. monkeez

    monkeez Member

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    JL pricematched RGB Direct at £699

    It will be used for the Freeview HD, PS3 gaming and blu-ray and also SD normal stuff.
  30. Lancia34

    Lancia34 Active Member

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    Ah cool, that could save me £100. I'm tempted to try and pricematch JL with PCWorld who have it for £699 and it doesn't say online only so might try that first and then if not try RGBDirect :)
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011

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