Panasonic V20 info/reviews/owners thread *Part 5*

I suspect that the filter on the newest V20s may not be the same as the old ones, as soon as our new-batch V20 was unboxed I saw a difference between it and my 7 month old model. We have an older 50V20 in a different area and the screen looks black (when switched off) under lights, whereas the newer 42" has traditional panasonic green.

Maybe the V20 has been subject to change? There's been a massive price drop and that filter is expensive after all...

Interesting. I should imagine it would probably not be legal to change something as substantial as the screen filter without changing the model number as well? Although I have read of LCD TV models using varying panels which can offer slightly different performance...

From reading on here you would think that V20 performance varies a lot, but I've never been 100% sure whether this is due to variations in sets or users. :)
 
I suspect that the filter on the newest V20s may not be the same as the old ones, as soon as our new-batch V20 was unboxed I saw a difference between it and my 7 month old model. We have an older 50V20 in a different area and the screen looks black (when switched off) under lights, whereas the newer 42" has traditional panasonic green.

Maybe the V20 has been subject to change? There's been a massive price drop and that filter is expensive after all...

Edit: Show-room not home, I don't own two V20's.

Well, I guess that solves the mystery why the blacks on my V20E never seemed quite infinite to me. Indeed, the screen does look more greenish than black when switched off.

To be honest, I'm pretty happy with the picture quality (as it is at the moment). The blacks are generally OK, but whenever there is some dark content on the screen, the black bars on top and bottom get more dark grey than black (check the scenes in Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" when Eastwood and Freeman sit by the fire, or almost whole of David Lynch's "Lost Highway"). I understand that the contrast in dark scenes can not be the same as it is when there is some bright colourful content on the screen, but I expected the difference in black level between this TV and some mid-range LCD to be more substantial and more visible with the naked eye.

As somebody here said before, this year's models will probably get infiniter blacks, so, hopefully, this will be improved (not that we'll benefit from that :().
 
To be honest, I'm pretty happy with the picture quality (as it is at the moment). The blacks are generally OK, but whenever there is some dark content on the screen, the black bars on top and bottom get more dark grey than black (check the scenes in Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" when Eastwood and Freeman sit by the fire, or almost whole of David Lynch's "Lost Highway"). I understand that the contrast in dark scenes can not be the same as it is when there is some bright colourful content on the screen, but I expected the difference in black level between this TV and some mid-range LCD to be more substantial and more visible with the naked eye.

I've never noticed a green tinge to my own V20 (an early model) but otherwise your description is about right. Very dimly lit scenes can trigger the floating blacks - The Social Network is another offender. It's something you either get used to, or don't!

Re. plasma black performance generally, this has often been touted as being superior to LCD, but is this true any more? I certainly found it difficult to believe when I bought my previous plasma, a Panasonic PX80! The blacks on the V20 are far more impressive but better than a good LCD? It's hard to say. I have read though that plasmas are better at handling dark picture areas, i.e. retaining colour and detail in these areas.

I also believe (in my limited experience) that plasmas offer a more "natural" picture than LCD, although it's hard to say why this is so. They certainly seem easier to set up - we bought a small Samsung LCD for the bedroom and it has literally dozens of obscure picture settings to play with. My favourite was probably "Edge Enhancement" which by default was set to On... :facepalm:
 
Its the first time I spent some time watching TV in the day time today (natural daylight) and the trails through motion are hardly noticeable. For me this points to the infinite black pro filter on the screen as the possible cause of the problem. Does the G20 suffer as bad with its infinite black filter I wonder?
 
If the filter caused the motion problem then all frame rates would be similarly affected and the bug wouldn't be called the 'Panasonic 50 Hz motion bug'.
 
I've never noticed a green tinge to my own V20 (an early model) but otherwise your description is about right. Very dimly lit scenes can trigger the floating blacks - The Social Network is another offender. It's something you either get used to, or don't!

Re. plasma black performance generally, this has often been touted as being superior to LCD, but is this true any more? I certainly found it difficult to believe when I bought my previous plasma, a Panasonic PX80! The blacks on the V20 are far more impressive but better than a good LCD? It's hard to say. I have read though that plasmas are better at handling dark picture areas, i.e. retaining colour and detail in these areas.

I also believe (in my limited experience) that plasmas offer a more "natural" picture than LCD, although it's hard to say why this is so. They certainly seem easier to set up - we bought a small Samsung LCD for the bedroom and it has literally dozens of obscure picture settings to play with. My favourite was probably "Edge Enhancement" which by default was set to On... :facepalm:
Floating blacks are not that much of a problem for me. Yes, there are few of them here and there, but nothing very distracting. The worst case I've seen so far was at the beginning of "The Dark Knight", the one that user Craig uk was talking about, but, other than that, nothing significant.

It's difficult for me to talk about the different screens firsthand, because this is my first HDTV, and the only other that I spent some time with is my brother's entry-level Samsung 32C450 LCD. However, after all those great reviews that this TV got, I must admit I expected a slightly better blacks, or, rather, blacks that would be more visibly better than those on other less expensive TVs. Like I said, I'm satisfied with the picture, but since that "infinite pro" black level is probably the main justification of this TV's premium price, I expected a bit more.

If all this talk about filters is true (i.e. putting filters in first supplies in order for the TV to get good reviews and then removing them afterwards in order to cut costs) then that really is one hell of a rip off.

Plasmas are definitely better in handling dark picture areas than even more expensive LCDs (more or less all reviews confirm this), not to mention viewing angles and, above all, motion resolution. If you want acceptable motion resolution on LCD, you'll have to buy some of the top-of-the-range models. Also, the picture is less "agressive" and therefore more natural, as you say. Probably the most beautiful pictures I've seen on my TV were those of the live coverage of New Year's concert from Vienna on German ZDF HD, via V20's in-built sat tuner. A true feast for the eyes. Somebody described HD pictures on this TV as "silky" and I think that describes them best: sharp but smooth in the same time, without any edge jaggies or agressive lighting that is so typical of LCD TVs.

If the picture stays as it is now, I'll be perfectly happy with it.

Wish I haven't heard about those filters, though. :mad:
 
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Taken from Flatpanels HD when reviewing the G20

Color reproduction and accuracy on G20 is good but not perfect. I talked about the THX mode before that was able to provide very accurate colors, but accuracy is one thing gradtion is another. Imagine, for example, a smooth color transition from dark red to bright red. Ideally this would be perfectly smooth displaying all the small steps in red, but the G20 has a tendency to reproduce some of colors in "blocks" divided some section of the gradient into "steps".

It is not critical and the G20 is not an inferior is much similar to G10 in this regard but it is something the plasma technology still needs to improve.

It also detected on motion, because plasma technology is creating some colors by mixing new colors from existing one (called dithering). This is how plasma panels display dark gray tons, by mixing black with white. When rapid movement on the panel occurs it is difficult for the plasma panel to mix colors, because... yeah, they are constantly moving on the panel. You can also experience some shading issues with some colors on G20 (banding-like phenomenon) but again, it’s not much different from the G10 – but inferior to the KURO reference.

Phosphor trailing has not been eliminated on G20 either. Phosphor trailing occurs because of the phosphor that is been activated on plasma panels. When the phosphor emits light and changes state some intermediate colours are displayed – typically green and yellow. And you might experience this in sports or black/white moves.

I think I'm just going to enjoy my new TV now and not worry too much about this.
 
The longer I have this TV the more purple I see in it it fact anything that should be white like teeth clouds etc is tinged with purple it's like there is a purple filter on the front of the screen. I never seem to have any luck with my panny tv's ..I don't think it's just a minor issue like floating blacks :(...hmm what to do!?

Okay so I got to the bottom of this this morning...kinda! As sunlight was beaming through my window it lit my room up very brightly and I noticed that the reflections in the TV from this light bouncing off stuff in the room was..yeah..PURPLE! So to be clear the TV was turned OFF!

So now what's causing this? A coating on the front of the screen or from the plasma itself? So now I know for sure that I needn't bother adjusting picture controls but I sensed that anyway. Good to know but does't solve my problem. So sell it and a buy a non-purple oriented TV? Unfortunately this effects the image at all times as I had at first suspected and explains why I noticed in on white areas mostly cause this TV never shows a pure white. When I first sent back my 2009 G10 it wasn't black enough, when I sent back the replacement it was too green and now it's too purple. And I hate the color purple ...yuck!
 
Somebody described HD pictures on this TV as "silky" and I think that describes them best: sharp but smooth in the same time, without any edge jaggies or agressive lighting that is so typical of LCD TVs.

That sums it up perfectly. :)
 
I have had a V20 for a couple of weeks, now that they're down to between 700 and 800 quid, I think they are a good buy. I have noticed none of the issues mentioned here. Though that may be that I am paying attention to what is on the TV, rather than obsessing about minor quirks.

I do have one question.

I have a Sky HD box on HDMI 1 and a DVD player on 2. I assumed the TV's optical out would carry the 5.1 signal (when available) into my AV receiver. But it only comes out Pro Logic. Is this to be expected? I now have the optical just straight from the Sky to the amp and a coax for the dvd to the amp to get the 5.1.
 
So what kind of source causes this 50Hz bug? I am looking for a new 50" TV to replace my stunning Sagem DLP and have been going back an forth between LG PX990, G20 and now the V20.
I run everything through either my Virgin+ box or my PS3 (Games/BD/Streaming), would I still possibly get the 50Hz bug from those sources?

Also - would you recommend this TV? I've been put off by the LG due to it's highly reflective screen :(
 
Sorry guys, but without wanting to read through all the posts on this set, what is this model like for SD and gaming?
I'm looking to replace an old Panny model i have and this came up. It wont be the main TV in the house, it will be the one 'out back' that i use to escape the noise :D
 
So what kind of source causes this 50Hz bug?

Er, 50Hz sources. ;)

In practice that means everything except console games and most BDs. However I have to say I have not been troubled by this issue since switching from THX to Cinema mode. As far as I am concerned the TV offers excellent 50hz performance. (I have the 42" model.)

Also - would you recommend this TV? I've been put off by the LG due to it's highly reflective screen :(

It's not a perfect TV, but at the prices it's going for lately I would say a big yes. Although as always you should try before you buy. :)
 
Er, 50Hz sources. ;)

In practice that means everything except console games and most BDs. However I have to say I have not been troubled by this issue since switching from THX to Cinema mode. As far as I am concerned the TV offers excellent 50hz performance. (I have the 42" model.)



It's not a perfect TV, but at the prices it's going for lately I would say a big yes. Although as always you should try before you buy. :)

Yeh but I'm unsure if upscaled SD from my Virgin box would be in 50Hz, surely it wouldn't?

Am going to check one out at the Panny shop at lunchtime :smashin:
 
I have had a V20 for a couple of weeks, now that they're down to between 700 and 800 quid, I think they are a good buy. I have noticed none of the issues mentioned here. Though that may be that I am paying attention to what is on the TV, rather than obsessing about minor quirks.

You must be in the wrong forum. ;)

I have a Sky HD box on HDMI 1 and a DVD player on 2. I assumed the TV's optical out would carry the 5.1 signal (when available) into my AV receiver. But it only comes out Pro Logic. Is this to be expected? I now have the optical just straight from the Sky to the amp and a coax for the dvd to the amp to get the 5.1.

This is by design, although it's unfortunate. Apparently the HDMI (or some other) standard disallows TVs from splitting the 5.1 audio from the rest of the stream and passing it via their optical or other outputs. They are forced to downconvert to basic stereo.
 
I watched the Pixar film "UP" at the weekend and was completely blown away on how smooth and crisp the image was. Her indoors was equally impressed and that's unusual because these things usually don't get her attention. ;)
 
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So Panny shop doesn't have any 2010 plasmas in stock or on show, waiting for the new range. Apparently the GT30 is due in late March and G30 due in Mid-April so bit of a wait.

Going to pop round a mates on the way home to check out his G20 which he says has no issues, no buzzing, pic quality excellent etc... :)
 
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So Panny shop doesn't have any 2010 plasmas in stock or on show, waiting for the new range. Apparently the GT30 is due in late March and G30 due in Mid-April so bit of a wait.

Going to pop round a mates on the way home to check out his G20 which he says has no issues, no buzzing, pic quality excellent etc... :)
Going on the recent tragic events I'd say we're likely to be waiting a little longer.
 
Agreed. I saw my first floating blacks when watching the TSN BD over the weekend.

i am a noob when it comes to all this stuff. however, folks seem to state that these 'floating blacks' only seem to occur on certain sources. tsn being one.

i also have noticed them once on the latest strikeforce broadcast. so my question is. is it not possible that the fault lies with the source rather than the tv? surely if it was the tv would it not occur all the time?
 
i am a noob when it comes to all this stuff. however, folks seem to state that these 'floating blacks' only seem to occur on certain sources. tsn being one.

i also have noticed them once on the latest strikeforce broadcast. so my question is. is it not possible that the fault lies with the source rather than the tv? surely if it was the tv would it not occur all the time?

No, certain source material will trigger the effect but it's not inherent if that's what you mean. They wouldn't encode floating blacks into a BD on purpose...
 
Yeh but I'm unsure if upscaled SD from my Virgin box would be in 50Hz, surely it wouldn't?

Am going to check one out at the Panny shop at lunchtime :smashin:

I use a Vbox HD and SD has posterizing/false contours, strangely I don't notice it all the time but it can be quite bad, even in cinema now:rolleyes: my set does seem to be changing a lot, ether that or I'm noticing things more and more. Interestingly I noticed some false contouring recently on my mates G15 for the first time, clear as day it was, never noticed it before.

The 50hz issue where you get a double image (white lines on footy pitch) isn't apparent on my set, think I noticed it once during the world cup.

My biggest gripe with the V20 is the buzzing, SD issues just add to my frustration more than anything.
 
I use a Vbox HD and SD has posterizing/false contours, strangely I don't notice it all the time but it can be quite bad, even in cinema now:rolleyes: my set does seem to be changing a lot, ether that or I'm noticing things more and more. Interestingly I noticed some false contouring recently on my mates G15 for the first time, clear as day it was, never noticed it before.

The 50hz issue where you get a double image (white lines on footy pitch) isn't apparent on my set, think I noticed it once during the world cup.

My biggest gripe with the V20 is the buzzing, SD issues just add to my frustration more than anything.

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False Contours on non film based matarials Soaps especially - Eastenders is shocking but interestingly if you change the lighting in the room and adjust the brightness on the display it disappears, If I put my main ceiling light on (very bright) it is very obvious, but if I use the dimmer lamp on the other side of the room it's barely there, and in complete darkness or natural sun light it disappears!! :confused:

This points to the whole "some individuals are more sesitive to it than others" perhaps being down to the lighting conditions in thier rooms?

I have always been sensitive to flicker and this also reduces in daylight but appears when the room is dark!!

Oh and I solved the buzzing on my set (wall monuted) by putting a piece of card between the bracket and the TV!! I'm not sure if this is the way you have yours, but its worth a try!!


Cheers,

Matt
 
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False Contours on non film based matarials Soaps especially - Eastenders is shocking but interestingly if you change the lighting in the room and adjust the brightness on the display it disappears, If I put my main ceiling light on (very bright) it is very obvious, but if I use the dimmer lamp on the other side of the room it's barely there, and in complete darkness or natural sun light it disappears!! :confused:

This points to the whole "some individuals are more sesitive to it than others" perhaps being down to the lighting conditions in thier rooms?

I have always been sensitive to flicker and this also reduces in daylight but appears when the room is dark!!

Oh and I solved the buzzing on my set (wall monuted) by putting a piece of card between the bracket and the TV!! I'm not sure if this is the way you have yours, but its worth a try!!


Cheers,

Matt


I guess lighting will effect how you see things as changing light levels effect you iris, so prob more to do with your eyes than the TV. Changing the brightness/contrast can help but wont get rid of it as its a limitation of the set. Ironically it seems the nice clean picture the set produces makes this issue standout more, a picture that contains more noise(dithering) would disguise the issue to a degree. My PX80 didn't seem to have this issue but it was a noisier image. The more I look into it the more it seems to be something that we have to live with if we want a clean image. Maybe someone who knows more about this can elaborate.

My set is on a stand and the buzzing is clearly an electrical issue with the componants inside rather than the TV casing, thanks for the suggestion though:smashin:
 
Isn't this due to lack of colour data in the broadcast? The fact that HD suffers less shows that SD content very often has less data, some worse than others.

I liken this to a poor quality jpeg that will show posterisation and a high quality jpeg or tiff file that has enough data for full colour representation and therefore doesn't (or is a lot less). Posterisation is caused when there is a gap in data. We can't blame the TV for that if thats the case.
 

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