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Panasonic V20 info/reviews/owners thread *Part 5*

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Curly99, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley Member

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    Ahhh....mine must be the 50hz bug then, because I only ever notice it on moving faces.... never static (well not to my knowledge)

    It's a disgrace that an issue like this could be allowed really.... on my set it is really bad.....
  2. anyuser

    anyuser Member

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    this is probably a real dumb question but what do you guys use to clean the screen of this tv?

    when switched off my tv looks remarkably like my one year olds smeared hands. no idea why though. :facepalm:
  3. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley Member

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    lol! I know all about that!!!

    For me, I only ever use something called an "E Cloth" - glass cleaner one - lightly dampened on one half and then dry off the screen with the other half of the cloth (it's quite a big cloth!) - works a treat.

    You have to be *so* careful what you use on plasma screens and frames/bezels...
  4. anyuser

    anyuser Member

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    damn that was what i was worried about i did not want to risk using fairy liquid or something and making it worse. i will check out this 'e cloth'

    thanks and i hope you get your issues sorted.
  5. dsidney

    dsidney Member

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    Nesl,

    You are absolutely right about that, it is unbileavable this 50 Hz bug on the European TV.

    I suspect that ours here are some how affected with this problem too, or it is tied somehow with the psoterization problem.

    Our TV here is supposed to work at 60 Hz, but the EDID on HDMI is set to inform 50 Hz to the source.

    I can atest this because if I let my EDGE or the BDP83 on Auto for resolution, they switch to 50 Hz to play on my TV.

    So at least the firmware here is wrong for working with Pal-M that is 60 Hz.

    It shows the lack of quality control of Panasonic worldwide.

    The last frase saying that "nobody will die from 50 Hz bug" was very funny :rotfl:

    Some people will certainly be very disappointed and put out some steam through the ears with this.

    Because the TVs don't cost as much as car, we don't put much effort on our fight against the manufacturer for a recall and don't get much repercussion on the midia, but we should fight harder for a recall.

    At least in UK you guys have BBC and AVForum to claim about this. Eventually Panasonic will have to do something.

    All the best.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011
  6. Paul Cooksley

    Paul Cooksley Member

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    yeah do check them out - I got mine in a larger branch of Tesco's....

    Cheers mate, I hope so too:rolleyes:
  7. tombac99

    tombac99 Member

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    Fellows screen cleaner (comes in a black box) is by far the best, don't get the wipes, it's the cloth spay combo you want. Expensive to buy initially but should last years.
  8. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    You aren't the first to suspect that Panasonic have changed picture performance with one of their firmware upgrades, but it seems unlikely. I think they're mostly to do with advanced features, Freesat, bug fixes etc. I've certainly been through a few updates and have never had one change the picture attributes.

    Makes me wonder if it is the other source(s) at fault...
  9. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    Once you have become attuned to a particular effect it might be hard to stop seeing it. Personally I was relieved when I moved to Cinema mode that most of the artefacts I had seen in THX were not intrinsic to the TV after all! As I said, general performance does improve across all modes for the first few months (subtly, but significantly). You will just have to decide if you can wait. :)
  10. tombac99

    tombac99 Member

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    I suspect that the filter on the newest V20s may not be the same as the old ones, as soon as our new-batch V20 was unboxed I saw a difference between it and my 7 month old model. We have an older 50V20 in a different area and the screen looks black (when switched off) under lights, whereas the newer 42" has traditional panasonic green.

    Maybe the V20 has been subject to change? There's been a massive price drop and that filter is expensive after all...

    Edit: Show-room not home, I don't own two V20's.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  11. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    Interesting. I should imagine it would probably not be legal to change something as substantial as the screen filter without changing the model number as well? Although I have read of LCD TV models using varying panels which can offer slightly different performance...

    From reading on here you would think that V20 performance varies a lot, but I've never been 100% sure whether this is due to variations in sets or users. :)
  12. nesl

    nesl Member

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    Well, I guess that solves the mystery why the blacks on my V20E never seemed quite infinite to me. Indeed, the screen does look more greenish than black when switched off.

    To be honest, I'm pretty happy with the picture quality (as it is at the moment). The blacks are generally OK, but whenever there is some dark content on the screen, the black bars on top and bottom get more dark grey than black (check the scenes in Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" when Eastwood and Freeman sit by the fire, or almost whole of David Lynch's "Lost Highway"). I understand that the contrast in dark scenes can not be the same as it is when there is some bright colourful content on the screen, but I expected the difference in black level between this TV and some mid-range LCD to be more substantial and more visible with the naked eye.

    As somebody here said before, this year's models will probably get infiniter blacks, so, hopefully, this will be improved (not that we'll benefit from that :().
  13. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    I've never noticed a green tinge to my own V20 (an early model) but otherwise your description is about right. Very dimly lit scenes can trigger the floating blacks - The Social Network is another offender. It's something you either get used to, or don't!

    Re. plasma black performance generally, this has often been touted as being superior to LCD, but is this true any more? I certainly found it difficult to believe when I bought my previous plasma, a Panasonic PX80! The blacks on the V20 are far more impressive but better than a good LCD? It's hard to say. I have read though that plasmas are better at handling dark picture areas, i.e. retaining colour and detail in these areas.

    I also believe (in my limited experience) that plasmas offer a more "natural" picture than LCD, although it's hard to say why this is so. They certainly seem easier to set up - we bought a small Samsung LCD for the bedroom and it has literally dozens of obscure picture settings to play with. My favourite was probably "Edge Enhancement" which by default was set to On... :facepalm:
  14. mkel78

    mkel78 Member

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    Its the first time I spent some time watching TV in the day time today (natural daylight) and the trails through motion are hardly noticeable. For me this points to the infinite black pro filter on the screen as the possible cause of the problem. Does the G20 suffer as bad with its infinite black filter I wonder?
  15. toodeep

    toodeep Member

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    If the filter caused the motion problem then all frame rates would be similarly affected and the bug wouldn't be called the 'Panasonic 50 Hz motion bug'.
  16. nesl

    nesl Member

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    Floating blacks are not that much of a problem for me. Yes, there are few of them here and there, but nothing very distracting. The worst case I've seen so far was at the beginning of "The Dark Knight", the one that user Craig uk was talking about, but, other than that, nothing significant.

    It's difficult for me to talk about the different screens firsthand, because this is my first HDTV, and the only other that I spent some time with is my brother's entry-level Samsung 32C450 LCD. However, after all those great reviews that this TV got, I must admit I expected a slightly better blacks, or, rather, blacks that would be more visibly better than those on other less expensive TVs. Like I said, I'm satisfied with the picture, but since that "infinite pro" black level is probably the main justification of this TV's premium price, I expected a bit more.

    If all this talk about filters is true (i.e. putting filters in first supplies in order for the TV to get good reviews and then removing them afterwards in order to cut costs) then that really is one hell of a rip off.

    Plasmas are definitely better in handling dark picture areas than even more expensive LCDs (more or less all reviews confirm this), not to mention viewing angles and, above all, motion resolution. If you want acceptable motion resolution on LCD, you'll have to buy some of the top-of-the-range models. Also, the picture is less "agressive" and therefore more natural, as you say. Probably the most beautiful pictures I've seen on my TV were those of the live coverage of New Year's concert from Vienna on German ZDF HD, via V20's in-built sat tuner. A true feast for the eyes. Somebody described HD pictures on this TV as "silky" and I think that describes them best: sharp but smooth in the same time, without any edge jaggies or agressive lighting that is so typical of LCD TVs.

    If the picture stays as it is now, I'll be perfectly happy with it.

    Wish I haven't heard about those filters, though. :mad:
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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  17. mkel78

    mkel78 Member

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    Taken from Flatpanels HD when reviewing the G20

    Color reproduction and accuracy on G20 is good but not perfect. I talked about the THX mode before that was able to provide very accurate colors, but accuracy is one thing gradtion is another. Imagine, for example, a smooth color transition from dark red to bright red. Ideally this would be perfectly smooth displaying all the small steps in red, but the G20 has a tendency to reproduce some of colors in "blocks" divided some section of the gradient into "steps".

    It is not critical and the G20 is not an inferior is much similar to G10 in this regard but it is something the plasma technology still needs to improve.

    It also detected on motion, because plasma technology is creating some colors by mixing new colors from existing one (called dithering). This is how plasma panels display dark gray tons, by mixing black with white. When rapid movement on the panel occurs it is difficult for the plasma panel to mix colors, because... yeah, they are constantly moving on the panel. You can also experience some shading issues with some colors on G20 (banding-like phenomenon) but again, it’s not much different from the G10 – but inferior to the KURO reference.

    Phosphor trailing has not been eliminated on G20 either. Phosphor trailing occurs because of the phosphor that is been activated on plasma panels. When the phosphor emits light and changes state some intermediate colours are displayed – typically green and yellow. And you might experience this in sports or black/white moves.

    I think I'm just going to enjoy my new TV now and not worry too much about this.
  18. ezzony

    ezzony Member

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    Okay so I got to the bottom of this this morning...kinda! As sunlight was beaming through my window it lit my room up very brightly and I noticed that the reflections in the TV from this light bouncing off stuff in the room was..yeah..PURPLE! So to be clear the TV was turned OFF!

    So now what's causing this? A coating on the front of the screen or from the plasma itself? So now I know for sure that I needn't bother adjusting picture controls but I sensed that anyway. Good to know but does't solve my problem. So sell it and a buy a non-purple oriented TV? Unfortunately this effects the image at all times as I had at first suspected and explains why I noticed in on white areas mostly cause this TV never shows a pure white. When I first sent back my 2009 G10 it wasn't black enough, when I sent back the replacement it was too green and now it's too purple. And I hate the color purple ...yuck!
  19. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    That sums it up perfectly. :)
  20. jonorw

    jonorw Member

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    I have had a V20 for a couple of weeks, now that they're down to between 700 and 800 quid, I think they are a good buy. I have noticed none of the issues mentioned here. Though that may be that I am paying attention to what is on the TV, rather than obsessing about minor quirks.

    I do have one question.

    I have a Sky HD box on HDMI 1 and a DVD player on 2. I assumed the TV's optical out would carry the 5.1 signal (when available) into my AV receiver. But it only comes out Pro Logic. Is this to be expected? I now have the optical just straight from the Sky to the amp and a coax for the dvd to the amp to get the 5.1.
  21. Lancia34

    Lancia34 Active Member

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    So what kind of source causes this 50Hz bug? I am looking for a new 50" TV to replace my stunning Sagem DLP and have been going back an forth between LG PX990, G20 and now the V20.
    I run everything through either my Virgin+ box or my PS3 (Games/BD/Streaming), would I still possibly get the 50Hz bug from those sources?

    Also - would you recommend this TV? I've been put off by the LG due to it's highly reflective screen :(
  22. monkeez

    monkeez Member

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    Sorry guys, but without wanting to read through all the posts on this set, what is this model like for SD and gaming?
    I'm looking to replace an old Panny model i have and this came up. It wont be the main TV in the house, it will be the one 'out back' that i use to escape the noise :D
  23. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    Er, 50Hz sources. ;)

    In practice that means everything except console games and most BDs. However I have to say I have not been troubled by this issue since switching from THX to Cinema mode. As far as I am concerned the TV offers excellent 50hz performance. (I have the 42" model.)

    It's not a perfect TV, but at the prices it's going for lately I would say a big yes. Although as always you should try before you buy. :)
  24. Lancia34

    Lancia34 Active Member

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    Yeh but I'm unsure if upscaled SD from my Virgin box would be in 50Hz, surely it wouldn't?

    Am going to check one out at the Panny shop at lunchtime :smashin:
  25. stevew117

    stevew117 Member

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    You must be in the wrong forum. ;)

    This is by design, although it's unfortunate. Apparently the HDMI (or some other) standard disallows TVs from splitting the 5.1 audio from the rest of the stream and passing it via their optical or other outputs. They are forced to downconvert to basic stereo.
  26. mkel78

    mkel78 Member

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    I watched the Pixar film "UP" at the weekend and was completely blown away on how smooth and crisp the image was. Her indoors was equally impressed and that's unusual because these things usually don't get her attention. ;)
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  27. Lancia34

    Lancia34 Active Member

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    So Panny shop doesn't have any 2010 plasmas in stock or on show, waiting for the new range. Apparently the GT30 is due in late March and G30 due in Mid-April so bit of a wait.

    Going to pop round a mates on the way home to check out his G20 which he says has no issues, no buzzing, pic quality excellent etc... :)
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  28. toodeep

    toodeep Member

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    Agreed. I saw my first floating blacks when watching the TSN BD over the weekend.
  29. neilmcl

    neilmcl Active Member

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    Going on the recent tragic events I'd say we're likely to be waiting a little longer.
  30. anyuser

    anyuser Member

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    i am a noob when it comes to all this stuff. however, folks seem to state that these 'floating blacks' only seem to occur on certain sources. tsn being one.

    i also have noticed them once on the latest strikeforce broadcast. so my question is. is it not possible that the fault lies with the source rather than the tv? surely if it was the tv would it not occur all the time?

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