Panasonic Professional VX300 (TH-65VX300) 65 Inch 3D Plasma TV Review

Is the black level really lower than the KRP even in a fully blacked out room?
It's hard to imagine anything looking blacker than the Kuro. If this is the case I'm saving up already!
 
Great review, Steve, thanks.

Typical, but when I finally get the money together for a high-end 50" display (and video processor), there are non around to buy! Given the performance of the VX300 (and a price tag that puts it out of the range of many) and the fact that there are no plans for a 50" VX300, is there any chance AVForums could get hold of the 50" broadcast monitor, the TH-50BT300, to review?

Edit: Out of interest, can/how is the nanodrift screen saver defeated, since according to the manual for the VX300, there's no 'off' setting?

I'm also in the same position. The VX300 is way out of my price bracket but the TH-50BT300 is affordable. It would be extremely useful to be able to confirm if the BT range has the same performance as the VX range as they both use the same panel platform.
 
Is the black level really lower than the KRP even in a fully blacked out room?
It's hard to imagine anything looking blacker than the Kuro. If this is the case I'm saving up already!

It was the first time I'd ever finished a review and not wanted to give the sample back.
 
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Hi Steve,

Few Qs for you

1) My usual question, does it handle Euro pulldown and remove the 2 repeated fields correctly?

2) Could you please explain the 16-235 issue as it's really confusing me. A Blu-ray player or Sky box should only be outputting in that range, where do the extra 235-255 levels come from (could it be from source contrast controls or noise on the HDMI line). You say that you set the TV to 0-255 mode but isn't that RGB mode and won't the colours and black level be incorrect?
Also in YUV, at level 16, is the TV as black as it can go?

3) Any idea if the subfield drive is up to 1200Hz now?

Cheers.
 
1) My usual question, does it handle Euro pulldown and remove the 2 repeated fields correctly?

2) Could you please explain the 16-235 issue as it's really confusing me. A Blu-ray player or Sky box should only be outputting in that range, where do the extra 235-255 levels come from (could it be from source contrast controls or noise on the HDMI line). You say that you set the TV to 0-255 mode but isn't that RGB mode and won't the colours and black level be incorrect?
Also in YUV, at level 16, is the TV as black as it can go?

3) Any idea if the subfield drive is up to 1200Hz now?

Cheers.

(1) As I mention in the review it correctly detects both 3:2 Pulldown (NTSC) and 2:2 Pulldown (PAL), I'm not sure what you mean by Euro Pulldown?

(2) Basically the levels determine absolute black (0) up to peak white (255) and as you mention video levels are 16-235 and PC levels are 0-255. However whilst you don't want to see detail below video black (16) quite often content will include detail up to peak white (255). So ideally you want a display to go from 16-255 which some do, the setting is often called Super White or something along those lines. Otherwise you can select PC levels (0-255) and then adjust the Brightness control using a PLUGE pattern to correctly set video black to 16.

(3) Not as far as I know.
 
Euro pulldown has a cadence of 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3. It's an alternative to 2:2 pulldown in which a p24 source is converted to i50 by repeating 2 fields (I assume the 24th and 48th) or 1 whole frame (the 24th).

It's used by Discovery and National geographic and even the beeb have used it (saw it on life on Mars series 1).

Still confused on the level stuff.
Is there a difference in luminance between absolute black on a 0-255 scale and video black on a 16-235 scale?
There should be no detail to show below level 16, if 16 is zero luminance then surely you can't have anything less than that.
Still not sure why there is detail in the 236-255 range, the standard says that peak white is 235, what is the extra stuff, where does it come from?
 
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Further to my previous post, the HDMI spec states that YCrBr must use limited range (16-235) so I can't see how you get blacker than black and whiter than white to come out. Are you using analogue component/RGB for these tests?
 
Further to my previous post, the HDMI spec states that YCrBr must use limited range (16-235) so I can't see how you get blacker than black and whiter than white to come out. Are you using analogue component/RGB for these tests?

This is very interesting but which HDMI spec are you referring to. There seem to be hundreds and hundreds and I notice that recently an effort at standardisation is being managed through the HDMI Forum: HDMI :: Press Release .
 
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I'm looking at the 1.3 spec, I have a PDf called hdmi_spec_1.3_gm1.pdf. This is the full tech spec as far as I know.
 
I'm looking at the 1.3 spec, I have a PDf called hdmi_spec_1.3_gm1.pdf. This is the full tech spec as far as I know.

Thanks for the information. There are others including the 1.3a and of course V1.4a of March last year.
 
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As I said video levels are set at 16-235 and the reason that video level black is set at 16 is a throw back to the days of NTSC television. However the complete range is from absolute black (0) which is also sometimes referred to as 'blacker than black' up to peak white (255) and TVs, HDMI cables and players are all perfectly capable of showing from 0-255. The Spears and Munsil Blu-ray disc has a specific set of tests for this which show the levels from 0-25 and 230-255. The idea is to set your display so that you can't see information below 16 but ensure that you can see information all the way up to 255. Therefore the ideal set up is 16 because we still don't want to go below video black, but up to 255 because some content will have detail above 235 and up to 255.

As for your other question the VX300 had no problem with 1080i content using 2:2 and 3:2 cadence.
 
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As I said video levels are set at 16-235 and the reason that video level black is set at 16 is a throw back to the days of NTSC television. However the complete range is from absolute black (0) which is also sometimes referred to as 'blacker than black' up to peak white (255) and TVs, HDMI cables and players are all perfectly capable of showing from 0-255. The Spears and Munsil Blu-ray disc has a specific set of tests for this which show the levels from 0-25 and 230-255. The idea is to set your display so that you can't see information below 16 but ensure that you can see information all the way up to 255. Therefore the ideal set up is 16 because we still don't want to go below video black, but up to 255 because some content will have detail above 235 and up to 255.

As for your other question the VX300 had no problem with 1080i content using 2:2 and 3:2 cadence.

Thanks Stephen for clearing this up. Just the one scale then. That makes sense.

As an aside may I ask whether, if you were me as the owner of an as yet still uncalibrated 600a, the VX300 is subjectively a better product to invest in or to go ahead and finalise the installation of the Pioneer. Thank you in advance. I don't know how you manage to produce the volume and quality of these reviews on a regular basis but thank you.

Mark.
 
I think it depends on whether or not 3D interests you, if not then I doubt you could justify the additional cost. I'd just get the 600a installed and calibrated and start enjoying the fantastic images that TV can produce.
 
Hi Steve,

I don't know if it's me but you keep answering different questions to the ones I'm asking.

If level 235 represents peak white, what is the extra stuff above it, where does it come from? DVDs and Blu-rays are mastered in yCrBr and will not have levels over 235 so what is the point of the 236-255 tests?

I asked specifically about Euro pulldown and whether the TV can detect and remove it but you again told me it handles 2:2 and 3:2. I know it does because it was in the review, that's not what I'm asking.

If you don't have a test for Euro cadence, that's fine, just tell me.

Thanks.

EDIT: Just to let you know how I'm thinking, I reckon these tests on your disk are for testing the RGB or Component outputs. The HDMI should be clipping the levels above 235 because they shouldn't be there. It may be that a lot of TVs don't do this clipping correctly but the Panny is adhering to the HDMI spec.
 
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I am answering your question but perhaps I'm not answering it very well. First of all 235 is reference white and 255 is peak white, so content will have information up to 255, just as it will have information down to 0, the difference is that we don't want to see below 16 but we do want to see above 235.

Regardless of what it says in the specs, HDMI does not clip data to 16-235 and Blu-rays are not mastered to 16-235, they both utilise the entire video signal from 0-255. Since there is information from 235 to 255, if you set your display to 16-235 you won't be able to see the entire video signal and will lose detail from 235 to 255. The Panasonic has settings for both 16-235 and 0-255 and my recommendation is that you choose the latter.

No we don't test for Euro cadence and to be honest I've never heard of it.
 
I'm also in the same position. The VX300 is way out of my price bracket but the TH-50BT300 is affordable. It would be extremely useful to be able to confirm if the BT range has the same performance as the VX range as they both use the same panel platform.

Remember with the BT300 you will also have to buy the IR Emitter to use the 3D function which is ÂŁ800.00 + Glasses where as the vx300 has the emitter built in, making the bt series pricey.
 
Hi Steve,

I've read on other forums that the vx300 doesnt have the same ambient light filters of the VT30's and that this can be a major issue unless you are using the tv in a dark room/controlled light environment. Notice this at all?

Cheers,
Mick
 
I've read that too Mick but as I mention in the review I watched the VX300 under a number of different viewing conditions, including plenty of ambient light, and I didn't have any problems.
 
rockieav said:
Remember with the BT300 you will also have to buy the IR Emitter to use the 3D function which is ÂŁ800.00 + Glasses where as the vx300 has the emitter built in, making the bt series pricey.

That's well worth pointing out ... lucky for me thought that I'm not interested in 3D, so the BT300 is definitely one I'm considering.
 
Hi Steve, kudos for the review - just a caught a glimpse of what you look like too, in the latest avforums vid - gutted I couldn't make it!!!

Finally a Panny which doesn't "suck arse" when it comes to 50hz, which to be blunt was a complete ****-take and shame on Panasonic for all our hopes they raised then dropped like a lead weight when us Avforumers finally read the reviews!

I've posted a review link below regarding the BT300 series, I'm licking my lips here, this could be the panel we've been waiting for, especially for us poor bastards who just don't have the dollars for a 65" behemoth!
Panasonic BT300 Sneak Peek

Please let me know your thoughts after you've read the review (is it the type of performance you've experienced with your review of the VX300), then I can get on my hands and knees and thank The Baby Jesus that a panel we have yearned for so long may just be around the corner!?

I'm not forgetting the rest of the forums members - have a look too! Both sizes of theses monitor are in stock in the US so we can't be far behind!
 
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The Panasonic BT300 certainly looks interesting and appears to have some very accurate out-of-the-box measurements. The question is, does it share the same 30-bit processing as the VX300?
 
Hi Steve, are the out of the box measurements similar to what you experienced with the vx300?

With regard to 30 bit, which can only be the icing on the cake here - I feel that it must do - I've compared the spec on the Panasonic US website and the BT300 series do have new additions in their spec sheet which you don't see on the PH and PF series.

If the BT300 series are going to be labelled as "Broadcast" and not have the 30-bit, than quite frankly the top-brass at Panny should be horse-whipped, then after being trampled over by an angry mob (most likely AVForums members who've had to deal with that crap from Panny for years), be cut-up into small pieces which would be thrown into a blender - liquidised and the remaining slurry to be fed to the polar bears at London Zoo!

I mean... how long do we have to wait for a display that can finally cut the mustard, like our trusty CRTs! Remember SED and FED! I had my heart set on FED after the SED farce! I can't see AUO giving the investment for FED as they seem to be focused on OLED anyway but they're using bottom emission which sucks as Sony are using the super top emission, I will post you a great Sony OLED video link later, don't forget to answer my question at the beginning, Steve!

Once again, many thanks and let me know your thoughts, it's a breath of fresh air to talk to people who DO KNOW what they're talking about!
 
The out-of-the-box measurements (especially for colour gamut) look better than the VX300 but since they weren't conducted by us I can't say for sure. I think you're right, the 30-bit image engine is probably being used across the entire new professional line. Hopefully something similar will feed down to the consumer panels next year, let's see what Panasonic have in store for us at CES

Hopefully there will be some OLED screens launched at CES too, although things have gone a bit quite on the OLED front these days, the last panel I saw was LG's 31" which was over a year ago.
 
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