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loft insulation and Ceiling spot lights.

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by Saggy, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. Stevie GooGs

    Stevie GooGs Member

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    Sorry to post on a very old thread, we have just had our air tightness test completed and it has only achieved a 6.3 score, we were told and shown the amount of air being lost through 17 down lights on the first floor. We have to find a solution for this problem and i think, we are thinking of using these.

    Loft Caps

    And using silicone to seal them.
  2. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    Hi All,

    I had 12 LV 50 watt ceiling lights installed recently & even though they are LV, boy do they get hot! In fact, some of them did not work after only a few days & when investigated, it was found that they were overheating badly due to all the insulation around & over them & the heat had nowhere to go.

    I removed all the insulation around the lights and made sure there was an exit hole above each light so the heat could escape up into a cold loft & have had no problems since! Please be aware, you can run into some serious issues if you do not leave enough room for ventilation when installing some types of ceiling lights.

    I also have a dimmable spotlight bar which has 4 50 watt GU10 bulbs - may I ask, can I install the much lower wattage energy saving GU-10 bulbs instead of the standard ones?

    Many Thanks,

    Suave!
  3. niceguy235uk

    niceguy235uk Member

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    Halogen downlights can reach in excess of 200 degrees c.

    Providing they are gu10, then you can fit them, although you may not be able to dim them.

    However, dimmable LE lamps are available at an additional cost.

    They will stick out further from the bezel though as they are longer than standard lamps.

    As for failing a pressure test, most downlights nowadays have a draft excluder built in to prevent this from happening.

    When the house is tested, it, in effect, pushes the fitting tighter to the ceiling to tighten the seal.

    This isnt 100% fool proof, although it drastically reduces loses.

    That is of course, providing you buy ones that have the seal fitted.
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  4. DJ Ovengloves

    DJ Ovengloves Active Member

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    If your worried about power usage (and indeed heat) there's some pretty good GU10 / MR16 LED bulbs out there now. You'll most likely need to change the transformer to a LED driver to maximise LED life.

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  5. BISHI

    BISHI Active Member

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    I just got some catering sized empty baked bean tins and put them over the light fitting and laid the insulation over these to keep heat and insulation apart. Worked fine.
  6. duckson

    duckson Member

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    They are cheaper here:- Fire Vapour & Thermal Seal Loft Cap

    Just bought 18 of these from TLC and replaced my 50W GU10's with 11W CFL's from eBay :- 5 x GU10 11W CFL ENERGY SAVING LONG LIFE ONLY £5 each on eBay (end time 19-Nov-10 07:49:25 GMT)

    I can then (hopefully) stop the water vapour getting into the loft space as i had some water droplets forming on the inner roof felt when it was cold early in the year over the 1/3 of the loft i had added 200mm of insulation too on top of the standard paltry 25mm of insulation that was in there! The other 2/3's of loft space which still has 25mm stuff down was ok....guessing this was warmer so no cold surface to condensate on compared to the better insulated side of the loft.
    I also could do with putting a seal around my loft hatch as well as it doesnt fit that great.
    Once these light covers are fitted to my 18 downlighters i'll be fully insulating the loft via the £3 a roll offer (inc free delivery) from Npower/Buildcenter!
  7. Onlyhalfbright

    Onlyhalfbright Member

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    Hi New guy here after a bit of advice, Thank you in advance for your patience.

    I have recently moved into a bungalow which has loads of low voltage spotlights in the ceilings.

    The existing spotlights are either grotty or have been badly painted over and I am going to replace them.

    Also I am getting the loft insulated on a cheap energy saving scheme and want the insulation to be effective and for it to go over the lights.

    I am looking at getting the Fire rated Downlight Fixed MR16 12v from Toolstation Toolstation > Lighting > Low Voltage Fire Rated Downlights > Linolite Sylvania Fire Rated Downlight Fixed MR16 12v
    (as the holes already exist I am limited in my choice).

    Now I think that will be OK as far as it goes but,

    and here are the queries:

    as they are "fire rated" do I need to get the fire vapour and thermal seal loft caps for each one?
    Fire Vapour & Thermal Seal Loft Cap

    Also, some of these lights are in the bathroom. How would this affect my activities?

    I would prefer proper lights but the ceiling would need plastering and the wife doesn't want the associated mess.

    Thanking you in anticipation.
  8. IronGiant

    IronGiant Moderator

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    I don't think you need fire caps if they are fire rated.

    I'm not sure about their suitability for a bathroom.

    HTH

    Edit: Lights for a bathroom may need to pass an Ingress Protection rating (IP RATING)

    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...a=X&ei=5fs2TbjoCcKxhQfdkZWtAw&ved=0CDEQ9QEwBA

    so your fire rated lights will be OK if they are in zone 3, but will need an IP rating if they are in zones 2 and under.

    So these would be OK if in the spash zones, and as they look sealed probably don't need fire caps for draught proofing purposes

    http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lig... Frosted Showerlight White/d220/sd2638/p33712
    http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lig...werlight Clear Glass White/d220/sd2638/p12519
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  9. Onlyhalfbright

    Onlyhalfbright Member

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    :)Hi Mr Giant, or can I call you Iron.

    I would tend to agree with you about the fire rating, though it may be wishful thinking.
    As regards the bathroom, I am assuming the caps would be needed to stop the steam from the bathroom, but again my thoughts are not qualified thoughts.
  10. IronGiant

    IronGiant Moderator

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    Just added some info on bathrooms to my post... :)
  11. Onlyhalfbright

    Onlyhalfbright Member

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    The lights are in Zone 3 in the bathroom.
  12. IronGiant

    IronGiant Moderator

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    Fire lights then :thumbsup:

    NB I am not a qualified electrician...
  13. DJ Ovengloves

    DJ Ovengloves Active Member

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    Why are you getting fire rated lights? - you live in a bungalow and hence don't require them. You may be able to save some cash.

    Fire rated doesn't meant they are less likely to catch fire :) - it simply means that in a fire IN THE ROOM THEY ARE INSTALLED IN, they maintain a seal with the ceciling, preventing fire / smoke etc passing through the ceciling itself, thus preserving it's fire rating for habitable rooms upstairs (for instance in flats, above a garage).

    The TLC caps you have linked to would be a great idea as they allow insulation to be installed unbroken - be warned they are massive and wont fit if the downlight is too near a joist / wall.

    If you live near Purley, I have a few you could have :smashin:

    As for replastering the ceciling if you remove the downlights, it's actually really easy to fix with a compass, sharp knife, plaster board and some skim :)

  14. DJ Ovengloves

    DJ Ovengloves Active Member

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    I doubt it, there's no such zone anymore :D (all changed in the 17th edition).

    Take Irongiant's advice though, get IP 44 rated lights (zone 2) anyway - they will provide a good seal with the ceciling and help prevent mositure going into the loft, plus, you never know when a rogue squirt of water may occur. ;)

  15. Onlyhalfbright

    Onlyhalfbright Member

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    Great stuff guys, Now I seem to be getting somewhere.

    I use the pots to enable unbroken insulation.

    I don't need to go to the expense of fire rated fittings, (but I still need to go for one that fits nicely in the already cut holes.)

    Many Thanks Lee and Iron, the haze is lifting :smashin:
  16. IronGiant

    IronGiant Moderator

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    Doh, that's my fault, I must have picked out an old diagram...
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  17. duckson

    duckson Member

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    The TLC caps fit even if the downlighter is very close to the beam, they arent that thick and quite straight up vertically.

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