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List Of Older AV Receivers That Accept LPCM

Discussion in 'Integrated Amplifiers & Receivers' started by Tone-uk, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    This may be of use to those who want to know a way of getting HD audio without buying an av receiver with HD audio decoding capabilities. It is especially useful if you are considering buying 2nd hand.

    Basically, these receivers will allow you to gain HD audio via hdmi - provided the blu-ray player can do the decoding of hd audio (True-HD etc).

    Examples of such blu-ray players are the latest Sony and Panasonic models and the older Panasonic BD35 and Sony S350 and the PS3.

    Some Sony models (Sony PS3) are especially attractive since they can force 24p signals which can be an issue with older av receivers.

    Denon AVC-A1XVA
    Denon AVC-A11XVA
    Denon AVR-3806
    Denon AVR-2307
    Denon AVR-1908
    Denon AVR-2308CI
    Denon AVR-2807CI
    Denon AVR-2808CI (bitstream too)
    Denon AVR-3808CI (bitstream too)
    Denon AVR-4306
    Denon AVR-4308CI (bitstream too)
    Denon AVR 2807
    Denon AVR 2807

    Onkyo TX-SR576
    Onkyo TX-SR605 (bitstream too?)
    Onkyo TX-SR705 (bitstream too)
    Onkyo TX-SR805 (bitstream too)
    Onkyo TX-SR875 (bitstream too)
    Onkyo TX-SR905 (bitstream too)

    Sony STR-DG810
    Sony STR-DG910
    Sony ES STR-DA3300ES
    Sony ES STR-DA4300ES (bitstream too)
    Sony ES STR-DA5300ES (bitstream too)
    Sony ES STR-DA7100ES (possible lfe issue)

    Pioneer VSX1018
    Pioneer VSX918 (5.1 only)

    Marantz 4002
    Marantz 5002
    Marantz 6002

    Yamaha DSP AX463
    Yamaha DSP AX661SE Applies to equivalent RX-V models
    Yamaha DSP AX761SE
    Yamaha DSP AX861SE
    Yamaha RX-V1700
    Yamaha RX-V1800
    Yamaha RX-V3800
    Yamaha RX-V2700
    Yamaha RX-V2600

    These receivers should not have the old LPCM problem regarding LFE boosting. But, this was my own research, so not an absolute guarantee.

    Those with bitstream as well are actually HD decoding receivers. I just wanted a list that would show older receivers that were HD audio ready and didn't have any issue with lfe boosting over LPCM. I must have missed some out but, it is a good starting point. There may be others that accept LCPM like Harmon Kardon models but I didn't research them.

    Anyway - models newer than those listed will be able to accept multichannel LPCM over HDMI and are more likely to bitstream too.
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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  2. dwhite

    dwhite Active Member

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    I shall make this a stickie and let other people add to it, but please just stick to facts people, don't let it turn into a debate on HD audio decoding or not?

    This will be a thread for people to look at when determining if a particular model accepts LPCM or not over HDMI.

    Also if people are wondering what this thread is about, there are basically three types of AV receivers with HDMI on the market.

    1) They can only pass HDMI audio thru it and need a separate connection for the audio (usually optical or digital coax).

    2) They can accept LPCM (and usually bitstream of DTS and DD) audio over HDMI. This means for HD audio (TrueHD and DTS-MA) , you need the player to decode the HD audio to LPCM prior to transport (This is how the PS3 outputs HD audio).

    3) They can accept the above plus bitstream of HD audio, so they can decode the HD audio for themselves.
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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  3. dante01

    dante01 Well-Known Member

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    While I whole heartedly agree that considering an older AV receivers is worth doing, there are instances where it may not be a viable option. I just though it relevant to mention that there is at least one instance where onboard decoding is required on the AV receiver/amp.

    In some instances it is necessary to bitstream HD audio from media drives that do not have the inbuilt ability to decode the audio themselves and send the data to a receiver as LPCM.

    One such example of this would be the Popcorn Hour Networked Media Tank.

    This thread seemed the most appropriate place to post this.


    Thanks :thumbsup:
  4. dante01

    dante01 Well-Known Member

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  5. dante01

    dante01 Well-Known Member

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    Another discontinued AV receiver that accept HD Audio as LPCM without having onboard HD decoding abilities:

    Denon AVR 1908
    Supports Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD & Dolby Digital Plus via HDMI when converted to linear PCM at source.

    Has 2 HDMI inputs and 1 out (1.3a)
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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  6. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    Yamaha DSP-AX761SE will also accept HD audio via LPCM.
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  7. TheHobbit

    TheHobbit Member

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    As will Yamaha RXV1700
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  8. mengez

    mengez Member

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    Anyone know if any of the Cambridge Azur range accept LPCM?
  9. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    The 640r DOES NOT accept 8 channel LPCM via HDMI if decoded by a blu-ray player or PS3. The 540r can handle HD audio over analogue if the player can decode HD audio formats and has analogue outs eg Panasonic BD55. But, there will likely be no bass management require extra work by yourself! Not sure about the others?
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    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  10. mengez

    mengez Member

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    Thanks it was the 640r I was most interested in as they appear to be really good value with the new V2 spec on the way. So I would just have to adjust the sub?
  11. Passingbat

    Passingbat Active Member

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    IF the 640r handles LPCM correctly over HDMI, the base management will be done by the 640.

    There were some amps (mainly older ones) that didn't do it correctly and you had to find a way to provide the 10-15db boost.

    Basically check out any amp that will take LPCM over HDMI thoroughly to make sure it processes it correctly.

    Even though this thread is a list of these amps that do it right, you really ahould satisfy yourself that this is the case IMHO.
  12. mengez

    mengez Member

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    This may be considered of topic, but hopefully not too far off, as it's part of the basis for wanting an upgrade.:thumbsup:
    I currently have a Yamaha 757se which connects to my PS3 via optical outputting LPCM, does anyone know if the amp will be outputting HD sound or whether it will just be core Dolby or DTS?
  13. dante01

    dante01 Well-Known Member

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    The optical interface standards do not support the transfer rate required for HD so the audio will be the core 5.1 DD or DTS. It will be a higher bitrate than if it was originating from a DVD though, but not HD.

    See here:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-a...06-attempt-explain-high-definition-audio.html
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  14. mengez

    mengez Member

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    Thanks. The sound is considerably/noticeably better than DVD, which is why I wasn't sure if it was HD or not. I'll have to take a listen to some HD and see if the difference is noticeable again from my current core soundtrack to see if it's worth upgrading now or waiting until the 757 dies.
  15. bootyman81

    bootyman81 Active Member

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    Can the Denon AVC A1xv accept LPCM over HDMI. I Know the upgrade model the A1xva can! but not sure about its predecessor any help on this would be appreciated :lease:
  16. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    Some other denons that are ok to do this

    AVC-A1XVA, AVC-A11XVA, AVR-3806, AVR-2307

    It seems the AVC-A1XV doesn't allow this - although there were reports of some lucky people who actual could. The XVA was the one meant to do it but some seemed to have slipped through the net!!

    Fingers crossed:thumbsup:
  17. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    Pioneer VSX918 - Not sure if discontinued but it's a 5.1 receiver that will accept HD audio as LPCM via HDMI.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  18. dante01

    dante01 Well-Known Member

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    Suggestion: Wouldn't it make things easier if new submissions were added to the initial post at the beginning of this thread?
  19. dwhite

    dwhite Active Member

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    Good Idea, will make it a lot easier for people first viewing this thread.

    Tone-UK, as its your OP, do you want to add them and keep it up to date? Or Do I have to add this to the list of my many jobs as moderator:suicide:
  20. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    I'll look after it, no probs.:thumbsup:
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  21. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    It has come to light that some older receivers may not be able to pass 24p signals. This relatively new technology is meant to allow tv's to show movies as they were made at 24 frames per second. It is a common misconception that cinemas show movies at this rate since showing a film a 24fps would result in horrendous flicker. Cinemas and 24p tv's therefore use high refresh rates to overcome this. The picture quality does not improve with 24p. However, it is supposed to remove judder (although some say this is simply because of the higher Hz!).


    Anyway, point is, if you have a 24p tv you will more than likely want to at least have the option of using it, regardless of it's functionality!


    The older amps (like the ones listed above) are more likely to have problems than the newer ones, it is thought. This is only because the lastest models mark out 24p in their specs whilst older ones do not. It is not possible to put the problem down to HDMI version, although with HDMI 1.3 it is suggested problems will not be as common.


    The problem is to do with components "handshaking" with each other. If they cannot - then the signal is refused.
    The problems occur between blu-ray player and tv, player and amp or amp and tv. One break in the chain and the signal cannot pass through.
    Because of problems between player and tv, some manufacturers (eg Sony) have put the option to "force" the 24p signal through on some of their models. For example, a Yamaha 861se plus a PS3 will be compatible because the PS3 will force the signal through regardless of handshake issues.
    Problem is, if the tv is not capable of 24p, you get a blank screen. and some manufacturers (eg Panasonic) dread the thought of complaints of "broken" tv's and have not allowed the forced option on many of their players (like bd-35). But, there may be firmware updates in the future that will allow.


    Below shows possible outcomes in regard to obtaining 24p with the variables


    (old amp = an older model including those listed above)

    Old Amp + old 24p tv + non forced 24p player = maybe no 24p
    Old Amp + old 24p tv + forced 24p player = 24p should be possible
    Old Amp + new 24p tv + non forced 24p player = maybe no 24p
    Old Amp + new 24p tv + forced 24p player = 24p should be possible
    New Amp + old 24p tv + non-force 24p player = maybe no 24p
    New Amp + old 24p tv + forced 24p player = 24p should be possible
    New Amp + New 24p tv + non-forced 24p player = 24p should be possible
    New amp + New 24p tv + forced 24p player = 24p should be possible

    Seems the only sure way is a forced 24p player or to buy all lastest models (though we have no evidence to support buying all new).
  22. dante01

    dante01 Well-Known Member

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  23. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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  24. mart280

    mart280 Member

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    Hi chaps, my amp is quite old now, Yamaha RX-V530 RDS anyone know if it can do LPCM, thanks.
  25. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    Your receiver cannot accept LPCM over HDMI since it does not have HDMI. However, it does have 6 multichannel inputs. So if the question is "can i get hd audio?" then yes you can, although there may be a lack of bass management.
    You would need to buy a blu-ray player with 5.1 analogue outs and in built hd audio decoding such as the panasonic bd55 or sony s550 (think there are newer models out now too). If you do this you may then have to turn your sub up to boost the LFE level by 10db.
  26. Passingbat

    Passingbat Active Member

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    If anyone is after a Yammy 2700, there is an ex-demo one here (at least, there was yesterday when I checked)

    Online Store - Audio T

    I would read this review here, where it mentions some HDMI problems.
    http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/YEC/AH_Yamaha_RXV2700.pdf

    and the AVForums discussion thread about 24p requireing to be forced (probably starts a few pages before this link page).
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-a...ha-rx-v2700-owners-thread-10.html#post5283645

    I thought about it but decided to pass on the 24p and possible HDMI issues. It sounds a great amp if these issues don't concern you.
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  27. bootyman81

    bootyman81 Active Member

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    Anyone know if the arcam Av9 processor will accept LPCM over Hdmi. I am really interested in getting one of these at the newly reduced prices I've seen online, but need to know if it can do this first. cheers :thumbsup:
  28. Tone-uk

    Tone-uk Member

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    The AV9 doesn't process LPCM audio over HDMI. You need analogue, coax or optical inputs for audio. You could buy a blu-ray player with analogue outs to get your dose of HD audio - though you will probably need to up the sub level a bit.
    But, don't let that put you off! It probably out performs most av receivers (including expensive ones) even when they are using hd audio and the av9 is using dolby digital!
  29. bootyman81

    bootyman81 Active Member

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    Thanks for the advice Tone UK

    I have literally just driven down to brigthon to pick up this combo :D and will be rigging it all up, once I have all the phono cables that I need :eek:
    I'm buzzing with anticipation. :rotfl:

    Need to update my signature now :devil:
  30. mart280

    mart280 Member

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    Thanks, that is good to know, the Sony s550 is the one I am interested in but may get a newer model when I go Blu Ray soon.

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