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Lip Sync problem (Samsung)

Discussion in 'All-in-one Systems' started by dengriff, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. dengriff

    dengriff Member

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    Have just bought Samsung 42 plasma and Samsung x200 home theatre.Connected via HDMI all perfect but when I also connect an optical cable to get the tv sound through the speakers the sound and picture are out of sync and sound sometimes goes completely.
    i am a complete novice any help much appreciated.
    Denis
  2. lfcmonkey

    lfcmonkey Member

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    Is this happening while watching a dvd or tv?
  3. dengriff

    dengriff Member

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    On TV only.
    just searched the net it looks like a common problem.
  4. kentish_lad

    kentish_lad Member

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    Its because you are coming out of the TV with optical, Use phonos if you TV has Phono out
  5. lfcmonkey

    lfcmonkey Member

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    If its sky you are watching then you need change the settings to delay the sound.

    1) press services
    2) select system setup (number 4 on the list)
    3) select sound settings (number 2 on the list)
    4) go down to optical output delay and change it, i have a Samsung tv and found that 120ms was good for me but it may vary, so try 120 and if its still slightly out you'll have to tweak it a bit.
    5) remember to then select save new settings before exiting

    Thats it job done, hope this helps. :clap:
  6. lfcmonkey

    lfcmonkey Member

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    Just one more thing, your optical lead does go from your sky box to the amp doesn't it??? :rolleyes: If not, it should!!!
  7. dengriff

    dengriff Member

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    Thank you all for your help it is much appreciated
    Denis
  8. Aceshigh

    Aceshigh Member

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    How do,

    I am having the same problem with my Sky + but when I follow your instructions I dont have an option for Optical Output Delay on the menu.

    Any ideas on where else to look?

    Cheers,
    Colin
  9. lfcmonkey

    lfcmonkey Member

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    At which stage does it go wrong and I know it sounds daft but do you have an optical lead connected?? if so does it go straight from the sky box to your amp. I can't imagine the menu layout would be different between HD and Sky +.
  10. lfcmonkey

    lfcmonkey Member

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    Did it work fella? was that the problem?
  11. Nexsen

    Nexsen Member

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    A fixed audio delay as suggested above from the Sky Box will definitely help since it can offset the "fixed" video delay caused by your display. Most a/v receivers nowadays also offer a "fixed audio delay" but the lip-sync problem can't really be solved by a "fixed" delay.

    Lip-sync error starts at image capture and continues through post production and broadcast and DVD encoding and often exceeds the error added by a display. It creeps in in tiny increments but is cumulative.

    In my personal case my plasma adds about 60 ms video delay but for the programs we watch this season a delay (from my Felston DD740) from 21 ms to 131 ms is required for perfect sync.

    That means my arriving signals vary from audio being "delayed" by 39 ms to audio arriving 71 ms "early". If I used a fixed audio delay of 60 ms to correct for my plasma I would still experience the +39 to -71 ms swing in lip-sync error which is far larger than the 60 ms caused by my display.

    If I did not have any correction at all I would experience audio ahead of video ranging from -21 ms to -131 ms which is arguably no more satisfactory that the +39 to -71 ms range when corrected with the "fixed" 60 ms delay.

    I am in the US and have been told on this forum that your TV transmissions are far better on your side of the pond (as far as lip-sync goes) but since the recognition of lip-sync error is masked by our brain's desire to avoid processing something that is impossible (as lip-sync error is in nature) it is hard to know in a forum if we're seeing the same thing.

    A Stanford Study proved most people don't notice over 40 ms (about one of your PAL frames) of lip-sync error but once noticed many people can detect a single ms variation in lip-sync. So what is the criteria?

    Since I learned (from the Stanford Study) that lip-sync error - even when not consciously noticed - undermines our perception of the characters I adjust my Felston DD740 down to the millisecond between every program and DVD.

    It's quite easy as it only involves a touch of its + and - buttons to shift the audio either direction while watching the undisturbed screen and a small investment in time to preserve the very essence of cinema itself - our perception of the characters and story.

    It's ironic that I'm in the US telling you about a UK product that solves this problem don't you think? I've had a Felston DD340 since 2004 and now have both a DD540 and their new DD740 and wouldn't consider being without one.
  12. Lil Phil

    Lil Phil Member

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    Hi Wondering If You Could Help Me .. I Decided To Hook Up An Optical Cable Between My Tv & My DVDPlayer - With D-input(optical)

    Once I Had Done This I Powered Up The Whole Unit & Sky .. All Run's Rather Well But FOr the First say Approx 10-15 Mins The Audio Is Well Sync But After this Time A Delay Starts To Happen .. I Decided It May Of Had Been The Length Of Cable (2M) .. But Told Ths Is Not It

    Looked on Here & The Sky Never Had A Problem Using The Tv's Built In Speaker's with no delay what so ever

    Is There Any Way I Can Send The Sound Via The By The hdmi cable Or Settings I Can Change To Get Rid Of this Delay ..

    Dvd Playback .. Use its Built In Amp so There Fore No Delay

    Setup
    Samsung 42 Plasma - Model ps42q96hdxixeu
    Verson Number sk01 ( The i Above Could Be An /)

    Dvd - Digital-Reciver Unit
    Model HT-X200 (r)
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2008
  13. Lil Phil

    Lil Phil Member

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    For Got To Menson

    Sky - Tv Via 3 Av Lead's (Yellow,Red,White)

    Tv Sound - Dvd Digital Reciver Optical Lead (2 Meter)

    DVD Video - Tv HDMI Cable
    (Sound Via Built In DVD Player's Amp)
  14. Lil Phil

    Lil Phil Member

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    Im Having The Same Problem With The Same System .. Tell Ya One Thing Moden Technolgy Aint Half Useless


    Samsung A Good Brand .. So Why Didnt they Test For this ..


    I had Been Told This .. Go To Your Tv Remote Press anynet While you have D-Input Selected On The Player

    Click setup (At the Bottom)

    Ensure both settings there are on
    & research the device & this should improve this once switched off & on again .. but i tryed it .. but sceems better
  15. Nexsen

    Nexsen Member

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    The reason you are now seeing this problem is that your TV probably delayed the audio to its internal speakers an amount equal to the video delay its processing and display causes so it maintained whatever sync was present in the source material. Interestingly the lip-sync in your sources may be off quite a bit but we inherently ignore the impossibility of sound before the action that produces the sound. Our brains can't process that anomaly so we subconsciously look away from the characters' lips.

    When you took the audio directly to your amp whatever lip-sync error was present in the sources immediately changed by the amount of video delay the internal speaker audio delay was previously cancelling. That delay might be 80 to 100 ms depending on your display so if the audio in your source that you were previously able to ignore were 50 ms ahead of the video it may now be 130 to 150 ms ahead. Almost everyone will consciously notice lip-sync error when it goes above 100 ms.

    Tye really confusing thing, however, is that once you consciously notice a lip-sync problem you are no longer subconsciously "looking away" from the characters lips but instead are "looking for the problem". You may have been able to avoid noticing perhaps 40 or 50 ms lip-sync error previously but when looking for it you may be able to detect an order of magnitude less lip-sync error than before. That makes it very hard for even the same person to compare lip-sync "before" and "after" it moves from subconscious avoidance to conscious observation (looking for it).

    Research at Stanford University discovered lip-sync error causes a negative impact on our perception of the characters and story even when we don't notice it. It seems we get the same impression as if the characters were the ones not looking us in the eye so now that you have noticed this you can correct it by adding an audio delay to cancel it. They are made by ALchemy, Felston, and Primare.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. kxf41

    kxf41 Member

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    I have this problem with my setup, i just turned off the speakers on the TV, job done!

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