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Linking Sky and Freesat systems

Discussion in 'Freesat Forum' started by Jimlad, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    I have my Pace Sky digibox (DS430N) located in my loft and control it from any of the three TV locations. The Satellite dish is connected to the Digibox. My terrestrial aerial is connected to the aerial in connector on the digibox. The 'RF1 out' is connected to a 6+1 way mains amplifier. To which I have connected my TV's and my VHF/FM kit via coax cables in trunking to the respective rooms. This in turn distributes the Sky signal to all three TV’s, (very good signal). Each TV uses the SLX magic TV Eye.

    I now want to obtain and use Freesat as well as the above Sky system.
    From my reading, I understand that my typical Sky dish is already aligned for Freesat. I also understand that if I buy a new LNB, which has at least two out puts, I can route the signal to a Freesat digibox.
    I would like to also put the Freesat digibox in my loft and operate with my existing Sky/SLX magic TV Eye’s. Is this feasible?
    How do I achieve switching between my Sky digibox to my Freesat box?

    Jimlad
  2. dwhite

    dwhite Active Member

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    The freesat boxes don't have RF outputs, so you have to get a RF modulator connected to the scart output to be able to use it in your current distribution system.

    However, you do realise that the only extra channels you will get from freesat over your current sky system is 3 HD channels (BBC HD, ITV HD and Luxe HD), which won't be in HD anyway on the RF distribution system. All the other channels you currently get via your sky box (in fact its the very same broadcasts). The only difference will be the EPG.
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  3. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    My Sky system is Free Sky, not that would have an impact on your response.

    As a stand alone system, is it feasible to locate the Freesat digibox in the loft and run three TV's from it and get full HD? I say this as I do want to receive HD. If it is how would I achieve it?

    Jimlad
  4. dwhite

    dwhite Active Member

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  5. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    You'd need an HDMI splitter with at least three outputs & HDMI cable runs to each location.

    Yes, you'd just need to add something like the Omni Link to your existing setup (made by the same manufacturer as the SLx). This allows remote control over coax for non-Sky receivers. So you'd use HDMI for Freesat audio/video & coax for Freesat remote functionality - aswell as everything else you currently use it for :)
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  6. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Thanks Ben. Are you saying I can set up Freesat as a stand alone system, to be received at three TV's and each will receive full HD?

    Jimlad
  7. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    Yep - though it won't be "full HD" as such, as UK satellite is broadcast at 1080i (not 1080p). Don't get too hung up on resolutions though, 720p/1080i looks great on a full HDTV :)
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  8. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Ben, I would very much appreciate a fuller explanation of what I would need to enable my existing FreeSKY system to also operate on Freesat. Also how difficult is it to run the new HDMI cables between the loft located, Freesat digibox and each TV set i.e. is similar to, say running Coax? Or would it just be easier to have the Freesat box beside my lounge set (Sony KDL40W4000) and leave my other two sets on FreeSKY?

    Jimlad
  9. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    Very difficult to say without seeing the property, but generally coax is much easier to run - as you can run it unterminated, whereas HDMI cables are pre-terminated & much more likely to get snagged/pulled off.

    Definitely :smashin:
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  10. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    I have decided to just put the Freesat to my lounge Sony KDL40W4000. So the Freesat digibox will have to be adjacent which will should mean only short HDMI cable runs between digibox and the TV?. (need to sort the wife out, who hates boxes and cables - Ha Ho).
    You have said that this setup will give me an HD picture that would be superior to the normal/currently received picture quiality. I did read that correctly didn't I?

    So to my comment on the first post,
    "From my reading, I understand that my typical Sky dish is already aligned for Freesat. I also understand that if I buy a new LNB, which has at least two out puts, I can then route the relevant signal to a Freesat digibox". Is this correct? Any comment on LNB's?
    I have the standard smallish oval shaped Sky dish. Is there anything to be gained in changing my dish, larger/round? I currently get a good digital picture but would a larger/better dish make any real noticable improvement?
    I will also need to buy a Freesat digibox - any comments?

    Jimlad
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  11. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    Yep :)

    Yep, although as already mentioned only BBC HD, ITV HD & Luxe HD are currently available in Freesat. Channel 4 HD will eventually appear on Freesat too, though it's not clear exactly when. If you're currently watching Sky on a 40" HDTV via coax; then switching to HDMI - even just for the SD channels - should look the difference between night & day :)

    You don't really get two-output LNBs for Sky dishes anymore, so any cheap quad LNB should do the job - which has four outputs.

    Nope.

    If you're happy with a STB, then the Humax Foxsat-HD is a decent receiver & you can pick up a graded model from Humax Direct for £89. If you're after a PVR, then the Humax Foxsat-HDR can be had from Amazon for £256. It's Freesat's equivalent to Sky HD with a 320Gb HDD. In terms of installation, the main difference is that being a twin-tuner PVR, it requires two cable feeds from the LNB - whereas a regular STB only requires one.
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  12. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Thanks again for the clear & positive direction and Links. :thumbsup:
    I will go for the twin tuner PVR.

    As I envisage it, I will be able to take both new HD grade, coax leads directly from the quad LNB, vertically down the outside wall, through the wall adjacent to the TV/Freesat digibox. I intend fitting a new flush mounted double outlet connector(please advise on type) beside my existing single coax socket which currently supplies my SKY & Analogue/Freeview signal to my TV. Any comments on it so far?

    Will I still be able to feed both the existing Freesat and Sky signal inputs to the TV and switch between the Freesat signal source and the SKY/Freesat source, should I wish to? Will this approach require unpluging/plugging in which ever source I want to use. I say this because my TV has a built-in Freeview system.

    Jimlad
  13. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    If you go to B&Q they sell modular wall plates to which you can fit all sorts of accessories in your case you need at least 2 f connector modules, . You can connect as many items to the TV as you have inputs for, just select whatever input you want to watch. In your case a RGB scart input for the sky box and a hdmi for the freesat stb.
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  14. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Thanks. My SKY digibox is in the loft (The Sky box also feeds SKY/ Freesat to two other TV's in the house) I feed the signal(s) from the Sky box to the TV in the lounge via SLX eye units/control, which is to have the Freesat digibox adjacent to it. With regard to the modular wall plate would I just route the Sky/Analogue/Freesat (aerial on roof) with coax link from my existing TV wall plate/outlet into a coax connector on the new modular wall plate, then out again to the lounge TV or why can't I go direct with this feed to the lounge TV input?

    Jimlad
  15. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you move the sky digibox next to the main TV and send it's signals via RF up the cable to the loft for distribution to the other TV's. This will give you a better RGB picture on the main TV and also stereo sound. By adding an external modulator to the hdr you can add it's output to the signal sent back to the loft so the other TV's can watch the hdr as well as sky.

    This means three downleads to the main TV, two seperate lnb coax for the hdr and one for satellite multiplexed with DTT to your existing diplexed outlet by the main TV. Your existing DTT outlet from the wall diplexer would go to the hdr external modulator input. It's output to the sky rfin and sky's rf2 out back to the return coax to the loft to distribute to the other TV's.
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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  16. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    IMO, bearing in mind he's already got a working setup, that seems like a lot of work just to get an extra four channels* in RGB on one TV. Plus you'll have two STBs sitting under your TV, which isn't great if your wife isn't keen on even having one! Just my 2p worth :smashin:

    *Note to OP: FreeSatFromSky has Fiver, Five USA, Sky3 & Setanta Sports News - whereas Freesat doesn't.
  17. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    Can't see where the extra work comes in, he already has the cabling to move the sky box and magic eyes, and he has to cable the 2 extra lnb's whatever he does. Where do you get 4 channels from, at the moment it sounds as if every tv is fed using the sky box modulator, which means every TV is using inferior signals which is usually fine for small extra TV's but very poor for larger screen ones. Surely this will give him full stereo sound and RGB quality for every channel on his sky box on the main TV.

    Feeding a HD ready TV with an analogue signal, quality wise is crazy when a digital tuner is available.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  18. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Gulp!:confused: Sorry but I am not up to understanding a lot of the abreviations you used. However, I think I get your drift. I will certainly need you to hand nurse me through this one. My first problem is I have a wife who hates electronic boxes and their linking leads, so I try to keep both to a minimum. With what is suggested I would have two digiboxes, Sky & Freesat adjacent to my lounge TV. I aready have a Daewoo HDD/DVD recorder (DH-6100P) and will in the future buy a Blueray record/play system. I am currently using the basic low quality coax links between the loft and respective TV's/rooms. However, I could run the extra required cables/coax externally as my dish is located just above my lounge (main)TV at first floor level. It would be relatively easy to enter the loft space with all the necessary cables to/from lounge/ dish also route the Freesat signal fro the roof aerial along the same route. But I am not sure how the distribution would function to the other TV's. I don't want to have to surface run any cables as we have just finished a complete internal redecoration. So if your suggestion doesn't require internal running of cables, we may have a way forward.:lease:
  19. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    Give me 30mins to do you a diagram. You can use the existing coax for the low quality return path. the only new cables you will need is the three new ones from the dish to the main TV position.
    Extra questions
    Does the DVD recorder have a digital tuner in it ?
    Does the DVD recorder allow recording from a RGB source or not
    Is it OK to record only from the Sky box or do you want to archive recordings made on the hdr to DVD using the recorder ?.
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  20. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Quote - Does the DVD recorder have a digital tuner in it ?
    Only recently aquired this from my son. See attachment.
    Does the DVD recorder allow recording from a RGB source or not - See attachment
    Is it OK to record only from the Sky box or do you want to archive recordings made on the hdr to DVD using the recorder ?. No I would want to archive recordings on HDR to DVD.

    Hope the attachment works.

    Jimlad

    Attached Files:

  21. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    It will, but surely he's almost never going to use Sky on the main TV if he's got a Foxsat-HDR connected via HDMI-? (Apart from to watch the above four channels & he won't even do that if he's got Freeview).
  22. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    When he is recording 2 channels on the hdr he has only a limited selection of channels to watch using the foxsat. So he will likely use the sky box under these circumstances
  23. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    It only records composite.

    Diagram of Coax connections satellite and terrestrial here

    4shared.com - photo sharing - download image Conn1.jpg


    Scart connection diagram tommorow.

    PS found an error existing wallplate to external modulator should come from TV out on wallplate not Sat out will put right tommorow

    Diagram now correct on same link
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  24. Ben

    Ben Active Member

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    Thanks for the clarification :)
  25. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    Not sure how many of the 17 pages I need to download? I note there are two connection diagrams will need to study them to understand what the are offering?

    Can I print them out before downloading or is it better to download all and then select?

    Have to go out now.

    Thanks

    Jimlad
  26. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    Extra question, how many scarts on the tv and what other inputs have you got ?
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  27. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    2 Scarts but see attachment.

    Will be out most of working day.

    Jimlad

    Attached Files:

  28. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    Scart Diagram

    4shared.com - photo sharing - download image Conn2.jpg


    Second error on first diagram - Magic Eye removed, you dont need one by the Sky box (forgot the electronics are inside the box and not an optical link)
    Same link - diagram updated

    External modulator to send hdr output over coax

    UHF Modulator TV/CCTV/ Home Cinema/Camera 350.111 on eBay, also, CCTV Security Cameras, Security Equipment, Consumer Electronics (end time 29-Apr-09 21:37:02 BST)

    The system as shown won't allow you to control the hdr remotely for that you need an infra red remote extender like this

    POWERMID INFRARED REMOTE EXTENDER DVR DVD SKY SATELLITE on eBay, also, CCTV Security Cameras, Security Equipment, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Apr-09 21:00:00 BST)

    With this you won't need the Magic Eyes as it should work with the hdr and the Sky Box

    You will need an extra transmitter for two remote TV's though
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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2009
  29. Jimlad

    Jimlad Member

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    I am digesting your comprehensive information. It would help me if you would compile a shopping list of the kit I need to purchase. I am having a go as well.

    I already have a few questions but will wait till I have reviewed everything and then seek your help where necessary. :thumbsup:

    Thanks

    Jimlad
  30. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    Quad lnb suitable for your dish
    PF100 (or similar) coax cable
    F plugs for the cable
    F plugs to Belling lee adaptors to make the coax interconnects
    Waterproof boots and Silicone Grease for the external dish connections
    How to fit F Connectors to coaxial cable
    UHF modulator
    2 way uhf splitter (with dc pass if using magic eyes) or add a magic eye dc bypass to each leg
    Connection cable for uhf modulator to hdr. IF you get the one linked it's just a 3 rca phono to 3 rca phono cable.
    Remote control for hdr.
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