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JVC DLA- X30, X70 and X90 (UK specs) discussion/owners thread - Part 3

Discussion in 'Projectors' started by simonprr, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Vipers - off thread, but you get a mention in the PMC newsletter, so good luck with your new venture.

    Got my X-30 up and running today, but not had time to set up the picture properly and TOH came home early with a migraine - Doh!
  2. IWC Dopplel

    IWC Dopplel Active Member

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    Probably about time I thought about upgrading my HD-100, I will be popping along with a film to HiFi Lounge ;)

    I just hope vipers doesn't install an X90 otherwise I will know what I might miss with a 50 or 70.

    BTW when will they finally forget 3D and get back to 2D only :eek: without this distraction I bet they would be cheaper and better :rolleyes:
  3. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Well-Known Member

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    IWC you can save a few £sss if you buy a 2D X30 (it is still 3D capable, but you don't get the emitter or glasses).

    Bar the lack of CMS (and inherent oversaturated colour gamut) the HD100 still takes some beating I reckon as it gave a genuine 30,000:1 contrast without even having the manual iris to help as the newer models did. This is why I reckon the HD100 still had more contrast than the HD350 despite having the same contrast on paper.
  4. Vipers @ HiFi Lounge

    Vipers @ HiFi Lounge Active Member Assured Advertiser

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    Thanks Steve, weird seeing your name up in lights I have to say, hope you've had a chance to play with your X30 by now?

    Hi IWC, I'll have a lovely X30 with about 5 hours on it shortly for sale, do you want me to put your name on it ;) you never know you may even get into 3D, stranger things have happened.

    Seriously though, I think you'd be amazed at the picture quality of the X30, next time you come up with that camera of yours we'll have to sit down and try a film or two, be really interested how you find it compared to your HD-100, as that has always looked pretty impressive.

    After spending a bit of time playing with the X30 now I'm really quite excited to see how different the X55 is going to look with the e-Shift2.
  5. simonprr

    simonprr Member

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    I have borrowed at mates SLR, can anyone recommend what settings to use to take a good picture of a projected image? I know nothing about SLRs or photography really.
  6. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Thanks Vipers

    After a struggle with 3D settings on my Sony BD player/PS3 and pairing with my Onkyo receiver, I've got the X-30 fully operational. I must say the picture is very good indeed, and the talk about impressive blacks is not just hype. Made some adjustments using some of the advise earlier on the owners thread regarding settings, plus the AVF review.

    Cheers
  7. idbrunt

    idbrunt Member

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    Glad you like the X30 Steve. On first impressions, how do you think it compares to the Sony 50ES we saw last week at the Sony event?
  8. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    I think the Sony compares very well, given the size of the image and the batcave conditions in the cinema. It was certainly very bright, and I suspect it will be popular in rooms with light walls and white ceilings, which is exactly the market segment Sony appeared to be targeting. Blacks may not be as good as the X-30. In light rooms IMHO it will be a rival to the Epson 9000, which some favour for those conditions. Like anything its always best to have a demonstration of each product under consideration and then take your pick. Of course a review by the team here at AVF always gives useful insight, and I can't wait, even though I'm happy with my new X-30 and have no plans to change for some time. Guess I'll have to advertise my old Sim2!
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  9. edbrandrick

    edbrandrick Member

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    The 3d in prometheus on my x30 was amazing, very recommended .
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  10. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    Have you adjusted your gamma so these patterns show all 15 squares?
    I would say this is the most inportant things to do adjusting by eye.

    Set HDMI to Super White (16-255)

    Link
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/17610296-post17.html
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  11. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Thanks Hawk-Eye

    I've adjusted the gamma to 2.6 on the custom gamma and got Super White on HDMI, but cannot remember seeing the 16 squares mentioned, so will need to look at those. Is that they greyscale pattern on this menu screen?
    Cheers
  12. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    Service menu press (fast) up down right left OK - scroll to the right look for patterns and scroll until you find the squares.

    Let us know how many black squares and white squares are visible with the settings you are using.
  13. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Had a look. The pattern like a checker board has 16 black and white squares if that helps.
    Thx
  14. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    Right place wrong patterns:) Thats the checkerboard ANSI pattern scroll further to see the patterns i am talking about (4 large squares top and bottom and 7 small ones in the center (if visible)- see my link above to see pics of the patterns.
  15. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Thank you for the link. After much trial and error, I cannot match the squares visible with those in the link. Especially with the white pattern, could only get 3 RH small squares visible. Tried different colour temperatures, used a Digital Video Essentials plunge. Strange using this with the HDMI level check, the darkest verticle bars became visible displaying the numbers In the checker boxes, but I cannot make them visible playing with the settings.

    Currently I have Cinema, picture controls centred, super bright, colour space standard, lens aperture -15, gamma 2.2

    Any ideas?
  16. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    Pick the closest gamma that shows most squares. Edit the custom gamma settings and edit the white values - raise the 5% 10% low end to see the black squares (shadow detail black crush) and lower the opposite end 100 - 80% to lower the white clipping until the white squares are barely visible.
    A bit of a pain to keep entering the service menu to see results but worth it in the end - just make sure your machine is warmed up 30+ mins.

    Recheck your brightness/contrast settings pluge pattern etc.
  17. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Great info, will have another crack tomorrow night
  18. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Gamma correction at 1.9 was the closest I could get the squares to show. Black was better, and even lowering the white vaules 80-100% white was still clipping. I played withe th RGB gain on 6500K, lowering them to near centre with values of -126 and this gave the most white visible squares and black almost as good.

    Grateful for any further observations.
    Thx
  19. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Well-Known Member

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    Steve, what's your room like? Typically the gamma setting in JVC projectors measures lower than it is labelled (and tends to drift over time as well). If you are using a 1.9 setting it may well measure only 1.8, which is really low and could give a washed out looking image if you have even a half decent room.

    I can run a 2.2 gamma in my light coloured room without putting up any dark treatments for example and still get a semblance of image quality. With the full black up set up I can run 2.3 and the image has even more depth.
  20. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Hi Kelvin, room is white ceiling but with a 1.4m deep black panel over the screen, screen wall is mulberry, ie pretty dark, side walls are medium to darker beige. Furniture is light. The are shiny curtains one side and light oak door the other. Equipment is in black racks below screen, speakers are PMC cherry, white I did drape with maplin speaker cloth. It made a big difference on my old Sim2.

    PJ is x28 hours with iris at narrowest setting. Would the black level setting be relevant? Lens to screen is 2.4m on a 77inch diagonal 19:9 matt white screen
    Hope that helps a bit
  21. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Well-Known Member

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    As you have the model with the darkness/lightness control you can adjust both these to improve the low and high end gamma. All of this would be better done using even a basic sensor such as an i1LT (which is surprisingly good for measuring gamma, even if not so good for greyscale or gamut).

    TBH in the absence of proper calibration equipment I'd just use a test pattern disc like AVSHD709. Then set up the brightness and contrast, then try different gammas and the darkness/lightness settings by pausing different scenes such as dark, mid and bright to see which gives a result you like...it won't be calibration, but at least you'll learn about how the controls work to obtain an image you like.

    EDIT: The X30 doesn't have the darkness/lightness controls, so you're limited to brightness, contrast and the custom gamma settings.
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  22. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    if your screen is a 1.0 gain 77 inch diag 8ft throw high lamp mode would sunburn you at 37ft.L low lamp is about 20% less 29ft.L.

    The standard is 16ft.L this is the reason you can`t dial in your gamma:facepalm:
  23. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Yeah sunburn alright, and that white square pattern has seared my retinas it's so bright!, particularly after Changing from the black pattern, for me at least it takes my eyes a short time to adjust and be able to see the smaller squares that are visible.

    I agree that calibration is the ideal solution, but the bulb needs more hours, I haven't the funds available, and I think my insurers are about to write off my car after an accident this week - Oh joy!!!!
  24. kbfern

    kbfern Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jeremy

    Regards brightness you could try an ND2 filter over the lens to tame the sunburn, you can get them for £20 approx and that should certainly help.

    Sorry to hear about the car mate.

    Cheers

    Keith
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  25. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    Just checked my patterns again using like yours smallest size max Lumens and the squares were all still visible and the only difference seen was a brighter white around the squares which stayed the same.

    So just set your (gamma) to the best it can do at the lumens you like and enjoy.
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  26. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that does seem bright, but a bit of lamp dimming will soon see it tamed. At least you have plenty in hand. If you have a longer throw it will also reduce brightness as the projector lens aperture changes as you zoom smaller. It shouldn't effect the gamma in the slightest though as gamma is a measurement between full white and full black, just that your white is very bright.

    Sounds like you'd be an ideal candidate for a grey screen which would also help counteract reflection from the light decoration.
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  27. HAWK-EYE

    HAWK-EYE Member

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    Or go demo a proper ambient resistant screen like this Black Diamond 1.4 gain.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  28. Steve Stifler

    Steve Stifler Member

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    Nice screen Hawk-Eye, with impressive results from the patterns. Pretty amazing, given the ambient light.
    Cheers
  29. michael.redfern

    michael.redfern Member

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    I watched my first movie on the my new X30 last night after taking 4 days to prep my room and get it mounted (stupid hand operation!)

    Watched the remastered Jaws on Blu-ray and had a sudden realisation at about an hour in that I was watching the movie. And I mean, watching the movie, rather than noticing the screen, or the room, or the colours or the black level. For the first time in ages, I just sat and enjoyed it.

    I think that's up there with the biggest praise I can give the X30: that it essentially vanishes and is so much of an upgrade over my old Sanyo Z5 that I stop being a critic and get back into watching movies. Makes me want to watch the whole collection over again.

    If anyone has any questions about the upgrade, or is in a similar boat, fire away. For ref, my room is a windowless basement, with "bowler hat" walls and ceiling, dark grey/brown carpet and a metre of velvet on the ceiling at the screen, with devore-a-like curtains either side of the screen.

    Thanks to Allan at Ideal for his assistance :thumbsup:
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  30. NWhiteley

    NWhiteley Member

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    Before i open a new thread, come someone please tell me how long the standard power lead is on their X30/RS45?

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