1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

is there a firmware upgrade for the TM300?

Discussion in 'Camcorders & Video Editing' started by Martin68, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Dixons telll me that Panasonic will be in touch with me that was weeks ago I think they are fobbing me off (both of them). I bought a Panasonic SD10 for £241 for my son and the color is great compared to 300 so i think i will be putting the onus on Dixons under sale of goods to provide the reverse proof (ie can they prove its ok)
  2. Martin68

    Martin68 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    I was lucky and got a full refund, and recently bought the Sony HX5V, ok it's not a camcorder but a compact camera which also can record at 1920x1080 50i just like the TM300 did, and when played back, you could never tell it was recorded with a compact digital camera, it knocks spots off the TM300 that i had, with colours true to the original, no colour casting, much less blow out (The TM300 was awfull for blowouts) very accurate WB in auto mode, the TM300 did an awfull job of that too!
    And in low light mode the HX5 works very well indeed, ok not quite as sensitive in low light as the 300 but virtually noisless, the TM300 looked like a snow storm with nois in low light!
    And last but not least the HX5V makes proper decent still photos too!
    the tm300 was lousy at stills, probably the lowest resolution ive ever seen from a camcorder.

    the TM300 cost me £700 (which i got refunded) the HX5 was under £300!

    only downside i can see on the HX5 is the microphones, they pick up wind noise, but the video is absolutely stunning!
  3. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
  4. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    I bought my TM300 from Amazon last December and first noticed the 'green cast' until after returning from a trip from Paris back in Feb but didn't think much of it and left it. I didn't use it again until this earlier this month and noticed it more on some overcast video.

    Haven't tried any of the WB pre-sets or maunual WB. I assume the pre-sets are all affected the same ?

    I have one of those translucent white lens caps. Are they good enoigh to do a manual WB pre-set?

    I've contacted Panasonic and am now awaiting a reply.

    It's been nearly 6 months since I purchased it. What am I entitled to from Amazon? Or should I be looking toward Panasonic direct?

    I had a cheaper Pan HDC20 before this which had much better AWB but did have an annoying 'lens flare issue' where a dirty black diamond shape would often appear on sunny days, but that's another story.

    Strangely enough a friend of mine thought video taken frm the TM300 looked better than that taken from my previous HD20 :confused:
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  5. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    I would bring your unhappiness with color to their attention befor 6months come up
  6. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    I've also recently noticed (now paranoia has set in!) that certain hues of red appear over-saturated and almost 'glowing' as do some greens in foliage.

    Anybody else get this? I think (hope) it may be the over enhancements in 'iA' mode? More tests required I think.
  7. lurcher

    lurcher Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,966
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +177
    Just recently started useing mine which I got s/h on here , used it at local cricket match last Sun , didn"t notice any colour distortions after copying it , but it may be my old eyes.
    I have the footage available on disc if you want to compare it , it was shot on the iA mode.
    What area of M/C are you for drop off or post , if its of any use .

    Julian
  8. PhilipL

    PhilipL Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,780
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +459
    Hi

    I would think this is iA mode enhancing the colours. Don't forget these are not calibrated broadcast cameras and no consumer camcorder will get the colour exact.

    I've had the TM300 and had no issues with colour cast using Auto White balance, but manual white balance is always better especially when you are shooting something that is predominately one colour, as the camcorder wants to find white, and if it doesn't auto white balance may make something white that isn't suppose to be, this then throws other colours out. Most camcorders tend to veer towards Red (i.e. warmer) on auto white balance espeically when they can't correct it properly and we tend to be more forgiving of redder images, whereas the TM300 tends to veer more towards blue (i.e. cooler).

    Some of the footage I have seen from those having problems are very green/teal, I've never seen this and can only assume there is a fault or mis-adjusted batch out there.

    It is a shame Panasonic haven't been more forthcoming about the issues.

    Regards

    Phil
  9. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    I've been in contact with Panasonic. UK and managed to get a direct email address. They're asking for some sample stills to show the green cast fault, so whilst I have a few I think those posted by John Lewis here are as bad as it gets. So John with your permission can I send a few of your stills to Panasonic as 'proof'? Or if anyone else has any good (bad?) samples (video frame stills pref.) then post them here, thanks
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  10. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    Here's a few of my examples. They're actual frame grabs re-sized down to 1024x576. All shot in AWB. Thy all have that unnatural cyan cast. The first three are the worst as it's overcast where as teh last one in sunshine fairs a little better, but that green sky!

    Attached Files:

  11. PhilipL

    PhilipL Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,780
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +459
    Hi

    I think this is going to be a hard problem to track down and I suspect they will need an affected camcorder. I've certainly never seen images like those on auto-white balance.

    I really think you have faulty camcorders, or a faulty batch left the factory.

    Good luck.

    Regards

    Phil
  12. wmg

    wmg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have this issue on my new TM700, The direct Panasonic email address would be useful.
  13. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    I don't want to give out the 'direct' email address here as it would be unfair on the owner, but all I did was phone them up on the number given on the contact page where i was directed to the owner of the email address.
  14. wmg

    wmg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Many thanks for that. My TM700 is showing all the colour problems the TM300 seemed to have had. A little bit disappointing to say the least.
  15. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    I advise you to get on contact with Panasonic. The more that do the better we have a chance of something being done about it.
  16. ChadStarbucks

    ChadStarbucks Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +9
    I think we need to be careful about people just jumping on the bandwagon with this issue

    The TM300 won best buy / recommended in almost every review it received and no "expert" journalist noticed any issues - even though on some models it looks like the model did suffer an issue in iA mode
    however it appears from the threads that when the white balance was adjusted manually the issue was resolved

    I ve seen the TM700 vs TM300 in a side by side picture comparison on separate screens and the new 700 series almost blows the 300 away

    The TM700 is also very very highly reviewed by many independent journalists
  17. wmg

    wmg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I do not agree, there would appear to have been an issue with the TM300 and there certainly is with my TM700 despite using manual white balance. There are a lot of things to like about the camera but it is flawed. I also have a GH1 and a Canon 7D and each have their own strong and weak points, the TM700 has a color weakness.

    Generally it will be users who identify issues with equipment and not journalists. Awards count for nothing in the real world, they are just an aid to be used in the selection processs. I am a user, who is not just jumping on a bandwagon but who has spent his money on a product which has a defect and which I would very much like to have fixed.
  18. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    My brother was round last night with my old Pan SD20 and the AWB on that was MUCH better than the TM300. It looked much more natural with no cyan cast.

    My brother is no 'video expert' and he noticed the 'cyan cast' on my footage straight away but noticed that in parts it did fluctuate as the AWB was 'hunting for a white ref fix'.

    I think the overall problem is the 'colour balance' rather from the 'white balance' ref which I would of thought could be easily fixed in the firmware by adding in more red.
    In editing I've tried this with some great AVCHD professional software i'm trialling at the moment called Eidus Pro Booster 2 by Canopus where if you add in touch more red then the colour looks much more natural. You can even do a split screen comparison where you can clearly see an overcast sky cyan on one half and grey in the other.
    In this software (and I've tried several) no amount of WB adjustment had ANY affect on the cyan cast, it' all in the COLOR BALANCE CORRECTION. But we shouldn't have to do this everytime but it proves it can be easily fixed but at a price. This particular software is £179 but it's by Canopus so you can expect a quality product. I must have tried all the AVCHD editing progs and this so far is the best of all of them.

    One other thing I noticed when comparing footage particularly shot in sunshine between my TM300 and my old SD20 is that you can really notice the PQ difference with the three chips (sensors?) on the TM300 which is MUCH sharper and dynamic.
  19. PhilipL

    PhilipL Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,780
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +459
    Hi

    You are quite correct that it does seem more like a colour balance issue rather a white balance problem, white balance tends to compensate for colour temperature, so shots become two red or two blue (warm or cold) if that is incorrect.

    On shots of affected green cast stills put up here it is easy to see (and measure using a colour picker) that what should be white or grey has two little red with both green and blue being equal values.

    I haven't seen this at all on my TM300, so it is probably a batch that have been calibrated incorrectly and perhaps as some TM700s have this issue, perhaps there is a bad machine automatic calibration machine in the factory.

    When I take stills of shots even with auto-white balance and check areas I know should be white or grey using a colour picker, it is usually spot on, and if off is randomly bias to one colour or the other and then only by a small amount and goes unnoticed.

    There have been several technical reviews of these cameras where the colour accuracy is measured and shown to be one of the best in their class. The complaints of a green colour cast are few given the overall amount probably sold and I certainly have seen no evidence of this colour cast on my TM300. It really seems to be a small percentage have this problem for one reason or other.

    Regards

    Phil
  20. wmg

    wmg Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    This is a still frame from some TM700 footage, white balance was set to 'cloudy'
    The problem seems to be more noticeable when there is water, glass or sky in the shot.

    Attached Files:

  21. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Lokks like a UK based dealer has never discussed my complaint with Panasonic so i will be sending Panasonic these taken with an SD10 and HS300 Tonight all on Auto

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  22. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Camera came back from 2nd opinion from a different authorised repairer. Its another case of Little Britain-computer says no camera is up to specification. Although samples were sent and comments asked for NO comments were made at what the eye told them
  23. Kevo

    Kevo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,209
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +116
    I'm still waiting to hear back from Panasonic who have a demo AVCHD disk and a demo stills disk to two different contacts. All i've had is confirmation of receipt. :(

    This is my third Panasonic camcorder as well as numerous Tvs, dvd recorders, blu rays etc over the years and will be my last ever Pan purchase if this issue doesn't get resolved :mad:
  24. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    I have 5 full size SVHs 5 svhs recorders up to £1000 paid not to mention other products like mixers so may well be the same here. What beats me is i never had color issues before All the above available FS
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  25. sterankin

    sterankin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Messages:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    Any more updates on this? Just out of interest as I have a TM300 and have noticed the green tinge. Would be great if there was a firmware update..
  26. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    I dont think there is. After threatening action under Sale of Goods and solid evidence comparing one Panasoic camera v another, after 8 months the retailer refunded my money :clap:
  27. JamboV6

    JamboV6 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +1
    I wish i had found this thread a few months ago, I have had this issue since day one but just put it down to me, pc screen and settings which i never managed to improve on. Having just used the camera for my wedding and honeymoon in November, all the footage is greenish :-( and worst of all the camera is either just out of warranty or will be this week. Have been trying to get hold of Panasonic on the phone all week but permanently getting the "we are experiencing high call volumes please try later" message so just about to compose an email to them. John Lewis - Did Panasonic get involved with this or was it just the retailer?
  28. John Lewis

    John Lewis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    No Panasonic never got involved, just the retailer although i believe they did see some shots taken with it after over 8 months of arguing with retailer they refunded (you guarantee is with retailer) maybe you left it late. KEVO the last i heard has been in contact with Panasonic for months but last i heard he still wasnt gettting any sense. If you can colour correct correct the grey balance hue by about 16% this will improve otherwise you are stuck with manual white balance. When you set it its ok till you switch off, however despite the flashing symbol it still remembers previous setting, all the presets arent perfect either but better than auto

    Good luck
  29. yogi62

    yogi62 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just wanted to add my penny's worth. I also bought the HS300 a while ago and never really use it much until this year. The green cast is really quite prominent which lead me to search teh net to see if there were any one else experiencing the problem. Interesting to come across this thread. To late for me now to go for a refund but just wanted to let you know your notthe only ones with the problem. Seem no one got anywhere with Panasonic so seems little point in my trying, I'll just put it down to bad experience and avoid Panasonic in future, particularly in light of the apparent poor response people have experienced.:thumbsdow
  30. 12harry

    12harry Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,134
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +224
    Are you seriously suggesting this old-thread is alive and kicking (or slumbering still)...?
    - - - - - I can't believe Pana really produces faulty kit. - - - - - -
    If this colour-cast is obvious, surely you can compensate for it with a colour filter on the lens? It's a poor answer and could be achieved in Editing.

    However, it must be absolutely unacceptable!

    What are others thinking? . . . . PS it's not 1st April is it?

Share This Page