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Interlaced is BETTER than Progressive on LCD?!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players' started by flangemonkey, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. flangemonkey

    flangemonkey Member

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    Had my Hitachi 28" LCD for nearly a year now...in that time, I've tried 3 different progressive scan DVD players connected via component.

    What I've found is that the interlaced output is clearly better than the progressive in terms of fine detail and resolution.

    When switching to progressive, sure the image seems slightly more stable, and shimmering (what little there is only on a limited number of films) is certainly cut down, however, it also appears that fine details are lost...pores on skin, weave and textures on fabrics are definitely not as finely resolved...

    Doing a direct comparison between interlaced and progressive output on the Pioneer DV-575 (which is no slouch of a machine PQ-wise) you can clearly see the difference between interlaced and progressive with my LCD, with the interlaced component output the clear winner.

    Now I suspect that it's down to the LCD's progressive handling. Of course, by feeding it an interlaced signal, the screen will convert it internally to display progressively (since this is how I understand LCDs and Plasmas et al work).

    Is this right?

    The loss of fine detail was seen to various degrees with the three different DVD players, but the Pioneer's output was definitely the best, but I've still turned off progressive and am enjoying much more sharpness and detail from the interlaced output...

    Is this an odd phenomenon, or are my eyes going wrong

    Technically, I understand that it shouldn't be the case, but visually, it clearly is!
  2. MrNPG

    MrNPG Member

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    I agree with you, interlace looks better on my plasma than progressive. Even on my new Arcam, the PQ is better with the prog scan turned OFF on the dvd player.
  3. wookie

    wookie Guest

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    I get the same results mate.

    I use a 575 with a Toshiba ET1 LCD projector.

    When progressive is enabled, text in the menu's develops a shadow.
    Switch to interlaced and it looks better!

    My PJ has a Faroudja chip to do the deinterlacing, I suspect this is better that the chip used in the Pioneer.

    What ever looks best to you is the best setting....
  4. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright AVForums Founder Staff Member

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    Yes it sounds like you have guessed correctly that the LCD is struggling to cope with a progressive signal coming in.
    If you could feed your LCD with a progrssive signal at its native resolution - say from a PC, then it might look better.
    But there's no doubt progressive is better than interlaced. But if your system looks good then don't worry about it.
  5. PJTX100

    PJTX100 Active Member

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    :smashin:
  6. flangemonkey

    flangemonkey Member

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    Cheers for all the replies - at least others are seeing this too! It's not me that's going mad!
  7. Sofa1

    Sofa1 Member

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    It's a magic technology, better but nobody can see why because it looks worse:cool:
  8. Lionheart

    Lionheart Guest

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    Nice one Flangemonkey...at the end of the day who cares what the technology is doing its the end result we are really after...ps I dont mean this literally cos technology is interesting :)
  9. mray

    mray Active Member

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    I agree totally. Prog scan always seems to blur the picture in my eyes. I thought maybe it was my display too (plasma).
    When I think about it though, it makes sense that the smoothing process of PS would make the image less sharp.
    On a side note, I've read from some U.S posters that they prefer 1080i to 720p because the image is much sharper.
    Could this be evidence of the same effect in HD?
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV Well-Known Member Assured Advertiser

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    I'm pretty confident that I can show folk the difference progressive scan done correctly makes to image quality. The image you are watching on your LCD or plasma IS progressive regardless of where the de-interlacing is done. It's not that progressive is inherently bad, it's not, it's actually inherently better than interlaced. As Stuart has said all that's happening is you are finding that your display is better at de-interlacing and scaling than it is at dealing with your DVD players progressive output. This could be due to the fact that analogue to digital convertors for ED/HD in the displays may not be up to much and are softening the image rather than the fact progressive is bad.

    De-interlacing film based material doesn't "smooth" anything. It should remove completely the jaggie artefacts and reveal the full resolution frame, which should look sharp.

    Gordon
  11. pjclark1

    pjclark1 Member

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    A small point here but you never said what type of progressive signal your were looking at. 480p is what most dvd players produce (some can do PAL at a few more lines), there is no more information on a DVD, higher than that and the PQ and detail will not be improved.
  12. flangemonkey

    flangemonkey Member

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    I see the results with both 480p (NTSC) and 576p (PAL) DVDs...

    I'm not worried at all since as Gordon says, plasmas, LCDs etc. are all progressive displays and show everything progressively once it's on the screen.

    The LCD is obviously just better at deinterlacing the pic itself rather than dealing with the already progressive image the DVD player is giving to it.

    Using the interlaced output does lead to some very minor aliasing and shimmering (but I've only seen this on badly-encoded or highly compressed discs) - give it a well-encoded, high bitrate disc like Monsters Inc. or Matrix Revolutions, and the results really are excellent.

    The Pioneer DV-575 really is an amazing little beast for the price!
  13. wookie

    wookie Guest

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    you said it mate..

    I find it works quite well as a decoder too!

    I often watch DVD's in DD & DTS using the "ext in" on my receiver.
    Quite peverse really :D
  14. rickardl

    rickardl Member

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    I'll just chime in with some feedback on the DV-575 and my LCD projector, which is
    an old Sony VW10HT. I view it on a 100" wide screen.
    With progressive, the picture is much more stable and calm.
    With interlaced, I have to turn the sharpness down about 50% to avoid
    excessive ghosting/shadows. This is evident just from looking at the menues
    in the DV-575. Also, interlaced is brighter so I have to turn the brightness down
    about 10-15% to get the right level.
    After those adjustments, progressive still is better looking.
    The deinterlacer in the Sony VW10HT is clearly not the most modern so progressive
    output beats interlaced in my setup hands down.
    There was talk about loosing fine detail with progressive, that is just the
    oppososite with my setup, no question about it.

    I have all the settings including sharpness to default on the DV-575 except
    blacker-than-black turned on.
  15. Kalos Geros

    Kalos Geros Member

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    I must react to this thread even though it's somewhat old: I don't know what menu options on the Pioneer 575 are, but I have seen players that, beside progressive scan option, use some features they call film and video mode...the film mode is used for interlaced source DVDs to remove interlace by removing one field from the picture...if used with film material it produces exactly the problem of loss of detail because - you guessed it - there is half a resolution missing becuase the whole field is missing and the player is NOT upscaling the displayed field...that could be the only explanation, probably some fiddling with the player's manus would therefore help!!!
  16. rickardl

    rickardl Member

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    The Pio DV-575 doesn't have film or video modes, it is using some
    kind of internal auto-mode which you can't affect, turn on or off.
  17. captaindobie

    captaindobie Member

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    I think i've just come to the same conclusion!
    Connecting a TOSHIBA RDXS34 to a SHARP LC32GA5 via component results in the interlaced signal looking far more vibrant and lifelike than the progressive image. I have also found this to be the case with the SAMSUNG HD950. (upscaling a DVD with this player makes absolutely no difference to the picture at all!)
    As has been mentioned on other threads, the LCD TV is doing the upscaling anyway (you can change the setting on the TV from interlaced to progressive - i have this set on progressive) so i think i wil just go with what i am happiest with :thumbsup:
  18. Kalos Geros

    Kalos Geros Member

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    rickardl!!!

    Also LCDs and CRTs have different modes to handle the differnet source material...I would check the LCD's menus as well, there must be an option like natural, film or similary named options...
  19. Ultratech

    Ultratech Member

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    Glad I searched out this old post, I have had my Tosh 32WLT66 2 weeks now and only just got around to finding the progressive output on my DVD, I made the effort to buy quality component leads and chose to use my bedroom DVD which is a newer (2yrs) cheap Medion player which has component and progressive scan rather than a 4yr old Panasonic RV32 with only Scart.
    I thought the Medion player may be too cheap to cope but its interlaced output via component is pretty good, but the progressive scan is dire. On STARWARS ep3 faces have a minimal shadow when interlaced, with progressive everybody is turning to the dark side, the force is all down the right hand side of their faces.:eek:
    Am i correct that even if I buy a better DVD progressive is still going to be poor and that the new LCD is actually the problem?
  20. chobot

    chobot Member

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    Hi, it might be just a theory, but I think the reason might be as follows:
    For interlaced input, the TV does lot of things to improve the picture, but for progressive one, it leaves it as it is!
    Sounds silly? I'm afraid that my TV (not LCD - it's CRT Panasonic PD50) behaves like that.

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