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Humax Foxsat HDR series link

Discussion in 'PVRs' started by maldonian, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. maldonian

    maldonian Member

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    I have got my Foxsat set to record F1 as a series. Initially it recorded both the qualifying and the race. For the last few races it has skipped the qualifying and just recorded the race.

    This time I looked at the EPG ahead of qualifying and the F1 qualifying programme had the red clock logo. And it recorded the qualifying this time.

    Today, however, it hasn't got a red clock against the race in the EPG. The EPG shows the race is on BBC2 from 12:10 to 15:25. Looking in the schedule it shows it is set to record the race on BBC1 from 12:10 to 15:20. If I don't intervene, is it going to miss the recording I wonder? It looks like it, so I am going to intervene, but I wouldn't have been able to if I were away from home.

    The Radio Times lists the race on BBC1 from 12:10 to 15:20 if there is no football and split between BBC1 and BBC2 if there is football. So the schedule seems have been set by the series link to the no football channel and timing.

    I've got a vague recollection of something similar happening when F1 was switched to BBC2 for a previous round. Is this a known problem? Does series link fail if the channel is switched? Or would it sort itself out if I left it (I'm not going to)?
  2. maldonian

    maldonian Member

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    To answer my own questions (in part, after a bit of searching) it seems to be down to the broadcaster to provide the relevant CRIDs (Content Reference IDs) for series link to work properly, an episode or programme CRID for each unique episode and a series CRID for all the episodes in a series.

    After enabling CRID display on the Humax in the hidden menu I saw that the race (it was still in the EPG) only had a Prog CRID. So presumably it would have been treated by the PVR as a single programme, not part of a series, and it wouldn't have been recorded if I hadn't intervened.

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  3. bert2

    bert2 Member

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    As a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder user for several years without any problems at all I have been unhappy with some Humax Foxsat problems, one of which you mention. I have now to always check the ‘schedule’ listing to ensure the wanted recording is on the list. Sometimes it is flagged on the ‘table’ but not shown on the ‘schedule’ in which case it does not record. This is incomprehensible to me and I would like to know why it happens. Humax themselves have not been helpful. I changed the machine at 11 months, hoping the problems were faults but a further 6 months use shows they are inherent, and the response from Humax indicates they will not be corrected.

    The broadcaster is responsible for the CRID’s it is said. This may be, but the recorder does not recognise a daily series at all. When programming a series of programmes broadcast on following days the flags are added to each episode in the ‘table’ listing but, although marked as a series on the first day in the ‘schedule’ listing, it does not appear on the ‘schedule’ listing for subsequent days and will not be recorded. Try it with the news! At other times it assumes all broadcasts of the programme are required even if on other channels on other days. None of these problems occur with ITV and BBC channels broadcast via a Sky box so why with a Freesat box. Is the Humax Freeview box the same?

    Also, in the last three months I have been logging recording failures which have never happened with the Pansonic. They are twice failed and reported because of a clash with a higher priority programme. There was no other programme to be recorded, anused tuner at the time in any event and no possible clash due to an overrun. A further eight times for reason unknown when again, I could not see a possible reason.

    Along with two crashes, this is about 10% of the recordings made and I would like to know if this is this a common experience and how it compares with other twin tuner machines?

    If it were not for other excellent features, especially the time programmable period forward and back which makes the finest job I have yet seen of removing adverts easily; four one minute clicks forward and one 15 second click back usually does it, I would dump it for a Panasonic Freesat box, however overpriced.
  4. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    The schedule only contains the next recording event for the series. After recording the epg is scanned for the next episode if one is found the next event replaces the one just recorded. If none is found the epg is scanned for up to 13 weeks for the next event. The epg should have a flag for any recording that will eventually reach the schedule list. Apart from ITV 1 which at the moment is screwing up series and accurate recording it should work no problem.

    The news will not record as a series simply because the way the Beeb codes the crids. Any other should work with no problem, my hdr records Neighbours and Home and Away from CH5 and Doctors from BBC-HD and has not missed an episode in months. Because the news is usually at a fixed time just set a one off recording and edit the schedule (press yellow) and change the repeat pattern to every weekday (or whatever you fancy)

    THe clash you describe generally is as a result of an overun of one recording which prevents the hdr starting the second. Usually if left this simply means you lose a few seconds of the follow up recordings. The other common problem is that the BBC sometimes code the crids that makes the hdr think every regional variation is a new episode again it's not the hdr's fault (Garbage In Garbage Out).
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  5. bert2

    bert2 Member

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    I agree that is how the recorder should behave but mine does not. As I said, for sequential daily recordings, such as some recent drama series in three daily parts on the BBC, clicking the record series button red flags all the programs to record in the ‘table listing, and shows the recording on the first date as a series in the ‘schedule listing but does not record the subsequent episodes. If the ‘schedule listing is checked after the first recording and before the next the programme listing has gone. I have no idea if soaps are an exception on my machine as I have given them up but, as you seem to have no problem, I will investigate this on my machine. I have come to the point of setting every episode individually as I have never had a success in these events. I also check the schedule listing each day for other errors as sometimes, even single programs fail to reach the ‘schedule’ list.

    None of my recording failures have been due to program overruns, as I said originally. In six of the twelve cases I have now documented, no other recording was being made at the start time of the programme to be recorded so an overrun problem was not possible. In the other six cases only one tuner was recording so again no overrun possibility. There have been two cases where the recording was flagged as failed and then, when selected, said to have ‘failed for a conflict with a higher priority recording,’ but was OK. I must have deleted several perfectly OK recordings before I realised this.
    I regularly see the clash warning screen come up while watching a previous recording but it soon goes off and the program recordings are always normal.

    Perhaps a significant fact is that 9 out of my 10 failed for ‘unknown reason’ recordings were BBC & ITV1 HD. Only one SD failure in the 3 months I have been documenting this. Is the software dependant on ‘crids’ and what happens if none are broadcast? It would not explain the failure to ‘schedule’ list a recording but might the failure to record for ‘unknown reason.’ I originally set the recorder to time mode with padding but it was a mess as it failed to record every time there was an overrun. I am used to a SKY box feeding my Panasonic PVR for recording, as Freeview is rubbish here, and have not had a failure to record in four years. If a clash happens it finishes the current programme and starts the later one immediately so just the first part of the second programme is lost. You indicate that this is what the HUMAX does but I think not if the clash is more than a few seconds.

    I do pad where I think it appropriate and there is no possibility of it causing interference due to overrun. If I pad the start and end times is the crid, (what does this stand for?) system overridden so that the recording, even if the programme is late, will be moved to the new start time but with padding, or will it start and end at the times set?
  6. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    CRID Content Reference IDentifier. Programmes cabable of recording as a series have two. A programme CRID and a Series CRID. Every episode in a series should have the same series crid but a different prog crid to other episodes. When you set a series recording Freesat+ boxes look for the first ocurrence in the epg of a matching series crid and schedules that to record. After recording the epg is scanned for the next episode by looking for the same series crid but a diffeent prog crid. If found this is used to update the next scheduled recording. Accurate recording is implemented by the broadcaster sending a change of status flag to indicate the programme has started and ended thus starting and stopping recording. Accurate recording only works if the on time and off time are set to Auto in the menu. Changing these to add padding in the menus retains series record but disables AR for all recording. Editing a reservation to change the start time or end time (or both) disables both series and AR making the recording entirely manual.

    Currently ITV 1 (HD and SD) are right royally screwing up the AR status codes so these often fail. Disabling AR by editing the individual recordings either globally or individually fixes this. Hopefully this will soon be sorted.

    The problem with the news is that the Beeb only provide 1 crid so you can't set a series recording although you can easily set a daily repeating recording.

    Are you sure you have two working tuners, what does diagnostics say about sig strength and quality for both tuners ?

    If you go into the setup menu and then press RED GREEN YELLOW BLUE GREEN YELLOW BLUE in succession what does Connection Type say in the secret menu (It should be "Two Cables (same)" ?
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  7. bert2

    bert2 Member

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    Thank you Graham. Very interesting to know how the padding works. They really should give this information in the handbook I have been very careful to ensure it has no effect on the results though so it is not the cause of my failed recordings. Am I right that you are of the opinion that, providing there is no possibility of overrun, a recording will only fail if the crid is wrong or not transmitted, or the recorder is faulty? Perhaps I should try manual only recording for a time to see if this corrects it.

    I have two cables and two tuners correctly connected. Strength,Quality - T1 90%, 100%. T2 100%, 100% and recording time on and off are set to ‘Auto’ in the set up menu. I record everything to watch later so quite a lot & perhaps 1 in 20 recordings have a problem but 1 in 4 in the last three days, all ITV1 HD.
  8. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

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    ITV 1 both HD and SD at the moment is really screwed up. You should not experience similar problems on the other channels. It's very doubtfull if the hdr is faulty. Try setting a recording for ITV a from the epg, choose a one off recording. Find the reservation in the schedule press yellow and edit one or more of the times. For instance if the recording is due to start at 19:00 and there's nothing set to record on the same channel edit the start to 18:59. Do the same for other ITV1 recordings on the same night. All the recordings should record at the times you specify. Editing the times turns of AR the cause of the current problems.

    Here's how to check your hdr is working properly tuner wise, start an instant recording on 108 (BBC-HD), start a second on 951 (BBC1-CI). Now tune to any other channel and press pause. If you can pause the third you are recording 3 channels at the same time (the 3rd to the time shift buffer).
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010

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