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HELP Anyone clued up with crb checks and old criminal records

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by kopchoir, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    Before we start im no ronnie biggs:D

    Hi I wonder if anyone out there can help me finished my last day today at work and due to start my uni course,for those of you who dont know i have been a nurse for the last seven and a half years.
    Whilst applying for my course in the health setting you have to for go a crb check its standard if you want to work in the profession i want to work in, i must have had a crb check in 2001 when i joined the nhs :confused: but i dont remember,anyway my crb for my uni course has taken almost 8 weeks to come through, during this time i had to hand my notice in without proper clearance, my crb came through this morning with a section 47 in january 2000 and my caution was placed on file in february 2000 over 8 years ago and almost 9 years ago i was 19 at the time and did something silly its classed as a common assault, assault occasioning actual bodily harm is its correct meaning when i was brought in by the local constabulary after i explained it was just a slap on the wrists but it has cropped up on my crb today will this affect my student position or not as i have handed in my notice and have no job :suicide:
    any help would be great i have checked the net but its not clear
    regards
    simon
  2. Gilli01

    Gilli01 Member

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    CRB Checks and criminal records are tricky. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont.

    A section 39 is a common assault, Section 47 is an assault occasioning actual bodily harm. You'll have probably been arrested on suspicion of a S47 but when it came to charging it was dropped to a s39.

    My advice when it comes to CRB's and convictions is to be honest with any potential employer. There is a point in law (i'm sure someone will know more about employment law then me) which states that you cant not hold a conviction against someone applying for a job if the conviction is over a certain amount of time (and also depends on the severity of the offence)

    Best of luck
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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2008
  3. Bilbob

    Bilbob Active Member

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    Dpends on what it's for, is it relevant for the position you will be going into? Then it probably CAN be used...
    If it's not relevant (I need all sorts of clearances for my job, but most things don't matter) then it usually won't count.
    At the end of the day, with the way the criminal justice system is going, and the things you can be done for, if they excluded everyone that any sort of criminal record from every job, there'd be hardly anyone left to work!
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  4. pl34

    pl34 Member

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    Hi,

    The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act may help you here;

    --------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=313

    The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA) 1974 applies to England, Scotland and Wales, and is aimed at helping people who have been convicted of a criminal offence and who have not re-offended since.

    Anyone who has been convicted of a criminal offence, and received a sentence of not more than 2.5 years in prison, benefits as a result of the Act, if he or she is not convicted again during a specified period otherwise known as the 'rehabilitation period’. The length of this period depends on the sentence given for the original offence and runs from the date of the conviction. If the person does not re-offend during this rehabilitation period, they become a ‘rehabilitated person’, and their conviction becomes ‘spent’.

    For example, if a person receives a sentence of imprisonment or detention in a young offenders institute of between 6 months and 2.5 years, the rehabilitation period is 10 years, or 5 years if the individual was under 18 at the time of conviction. For an absolute discharge the rehabilitation period is six months.

    Sentences can carry fixed or variable rehabilitation periods and these periods can be extended if the person offends again during the rehabilitation period. However, if the sentence is more that 2.5 years in prison the conviction never becomes ‘spent’. It is the sentence imposed by the courts that counts, even if it is a suspended sentence, not the time actually spent in prison.

    Once a conviction is ‘spent’, the convicted person does not have to reveal it or admit its existence in most circumstances. However, there are some exceptions relating to employment and these are listed in the Exceptions order to the ROA. The two main exceptions relate to working with children or working with the elderly or sick people. If a person wants to apply for a position that involves working with children or working with the elderly or sick people they are required to reveal all convictions, both spent and unspent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Certain types of businesses however are exempt from this and will inform you of that fact when requesting your details.
  5. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    yeah i read this but it still doesnt shed any light on it, im in a bit of a quandry as its a long time ago didnt get sent to court or anything like that was not sent to prison just a cuff behing the ear but after 8 nearly nine years it still there but still being in a section 1 job as they call it makes me a little uneasy the crb check takes for ages so i had to hand my notice in,the funny thing is this happened before i joined the health service but i cant recall for the life of me having a crb all those years ago
  6. JonMace

    JonMace Member

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    As stated before it depends what the coarse is and what job it leads to.

    I'm the general manager of a recruitment agancy for supply teachers, we do not accept anyone who does not have a clean ED.

    Also it is worth noting that there are jobs that can totally ignore The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, this includes teachers.

    I don't think the coarse will be able to exclude you because of it, but depend on what you want to do with the qualification, you may have difficulty getting a job
  7. pl34

    pl34 Member

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    The CRB wasn't formed until March 2002, in my career prior to this we were subject to general 'Police checks' - did you do similar?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Records_Bureau
  8. Bilbob

    Bilbob Active Member

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    You won't take anyone with anything on the ED? Really? Anything at all???
  9. sore napper

    sore napper Active Member

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    I've been checked twice in the last 6 months.

    First I believe it was The Standard Disclosure and as the job progressed I had to get The Enhanced Disclosure check.

    kopchoir I see that you have a sticky sig for fundraising for children and I'm guessing thats the line of work you wish to move into. I believe that if anything comes up in The Enhanced Disclosure check you are unable to work with children and the elderly including those with mental disabilities.

    If you apply for another job with the NHS you will need to get The Enhanced Disclosure check done again which you have failed to pass. You may be out of that line of work altogether.

    Another thing and I'm not looking to have a dig at you or ruin your day, but by law you shouldn't be allowed to work with a childrens charity.

    Sorry seems like a hard blow to take.
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  10. shahedz

    shahedz Active Member

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    i would hope the fact that you've been working in the industry for the past few years would over ride what you did 8 years ago.

    I used to run a locum agency for doctors a few years back, and a few doctor's crb check came back with convictions on them , one had been done for assualt only a few years before the check and he was finding work no problem and was in a permanent position in the NHS.

    Also another doctor had been done for stealing years ago and it came up on his check and he found work no problem.
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  11. Bilbob

    Bilbob Active Member

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    As I said, there are very few jobs that cast iron guarantee you CANNOT work in a particular field...

    I don't have a spotless record, I've had ED, and even CTC (counter toerrorist clearance) and I'm ok... it all depends on the job at hand...

    Don't be panicking over it... if anything comes back, then speak to the potential employers, most are fine, and will take circumstances into consideration.

    One word of warning though, DO BE COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT and honest when filling in the forms, they take potential dishonesty far more seriously than a couple of drunken mishaps as a youth...
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  12. JonMace

    JonMace Member

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    Sore Napper is correct in what he says, apart can quite happily be a fund raiser for a children's charity you just cannot be in control of the children (well you can but it needs a board meeting to agree to it),

    Also the laws in my industry are completely different than all others, it all comes from the Soham murders. Basically in other industries you are not allowed to reveal the fact that a ED is not clear to a client, in mine if it is not clear I have to fax it through to the head teacher
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  13. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    No the kids charity thread was a little collection we did on here where we collected computer games from members on here and sold them to members on here, we managed to get 4 nintendo wiis and donated them to childrens wards and hospital around the country so only a little drive for sick kiddies.

    I have had the enhanced disclosure and it says a section 47 assault charge from january 2000 i was at a rotarty dinner and my then ex girlfriend was having a hard time with one of her ex boyfriends where he was trying to put his hand up her skirt whilst drunk so he got a slap:suicide:

    Im doing an anaestetics course where i will be placed on placement in hospital theatres, i think ill just have to wait and see if anything gets said when i go for my first day on thursday or if anything comes through the post this week

    @shaedz-did these people apply for permanent work in the nhs after 2002 any help or if you can recall anything would be great

    Thanks for all the replies guys if anyone has anything else to add please feel free to add it
  14. JonMace

    JonMace Member

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    The company that do our EDs for us, run a nursing agency and are the 3rd biggest umbrella company in the country, I can have a word with them if you like an see what your prospects of employment are after the coarse, let me know?
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  15. sore napper

    sore napper Active Member

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    Your heart is in the right place and you haven't done anything that I wouldn't have done if in the same situation.

    I hope in all works out in the end.
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  16. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    Well if they ask I would go with the truth
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  17. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    would be great that mate,to be honest its the course im worried about as im still going to be placed in hospitals.
    I have worked in the nhs for 8 years with vulnerable adults and children but its worrying as if it all goes tits up then i have no job and its not the best time to be unemployed with the state of the country as it is.
    I may just be worrying over nothing and all will be fine but its still worrying none the less
  18. shahedz

    shahedz Active Member

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    out of the 2 that stand out, one was only in private work ( the chap who had a conviction for theft) the other chap who had a conviction for assault he was in a permanent post within the NHS , and this was in 2006.

    Also just jogged my memory about a doctor who had a conviction for assault, (huge bust up with the ex-wife) and this was plastered all over his CRB - it can go into a fair bit of detail. He was in a permanent post with in the NHS at the time as well.
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  19. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    can you remember if that was after 2002 though i mean did he start withhin the nhs after 2002 sorry to be a pain mate
  20. shahedz

    shahedz Active Member

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    the chap for assault, ( not the one with the wife bust up) definitley started after 2002.
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  21. lynx

    lynx Active Member

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    I was involved (briefly) in a very similar case in 2005 which resulted in the nurse having their course place revoked, this was several months into the course (iirc).
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  22. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    Thanks,I start Thursday so we will just have to see I was up front about it and sent a letter of explanation with my application form, with my years in the nhs(albeit joined before crb came into affect in 2002) and the fact i have been up front im just hoping i will be ok praying actually.

    Once again thanks for all the replies guys ill keep you updated on how i go on this week if anyone else can shed some light on it then all the better

    cheers
    Si:smashin:
  23. Woodywizz

    Woodywizz Active Member

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    I hope it all goes well for you mate, we've all done things in the past that we may regret. But at the end of the day you've been working in the NHS for the last few years without a problem and I hope that some pencil pusher doesn't jeopardise your chances in your new chosen career. You've done some sterling work on these forums with the kids thread, and I would imagine there would be hundreds of character witnesses for you should the need arise.

    Best of luck fella :thumbsup:
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  24. shahedz

    shahedz Active Member

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    best of luck Simon
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  25. JonMace

    JonMace Member

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    Had a chat to the friend I metioned, he said it would not be a problem in the NHS as long as it was not a custodial sentance, but always declare it
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  26. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    :thumbsup:
    thanks no just a slap on the wrists didnt go to court or anything like that just went to the police station and was told off
    thanks jon a realy weight off my mind that so a huge thanks from me
    and thanks for the well wishes guys much appreciated
  27. dejongj

    dejongj Well-Known Member

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    I can't shed a light on the NHS...But I do work within an environment with other type of checks including security clearance....Non-disclosure is my biggest issue, can't believe how stupid some people are in not disclosing what happened in the past (not saying you didn't...). I don't care much that someone was silly when they were 18/19...But not disclosing it when you are applying for a job and asked and then something pops up...That's an immediate no-no...From my perspective I would be thinking what else are 'you' holding back...

    Doesn't sound like you are in that situation but just as some general advice for others who may read this...
  28. kopchoir

    kopchoir Well-Known Member

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    well guys judgment day today went for my enrolment day,the lecturer was shouting out names and if they did not shout out my name then there was a a problem with either my crb or medical.
    My name was not on the list and was sat there :censored:bricks and then someone poped in the classroom with a few files and then he shouted my name so im in :clap::clap::clap::clap: went for a few pints after a huge weight lifted off my mind, huge thanks for all those who provided me with info and encouragement meant a lot so thank you very much :thumbsup:
    ill change my profile now from nurse to student/parasite on society:devil:
    cheern:smashin:
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  29. sore napper

    sore napper Active Member

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    Congratulations Simon, I'm sure that its a great weight lifted of your mind. Well Done
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  30. Bilbob

    Bilbob Active Member

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    Good on yer, mate!
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