Home Entertainment & Technology Resource

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

F1 closed season chitchat

Discussion in 'F1 Formula 1 Forum' started by John, Nov 29, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. John

    John Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,726
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,624
    And we start with Kimi back , at Lotus !

    The Sky gets F1 thread can run as its a big enough subject by itself
  2. hdsport

    hdsport Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,212
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +231
    Now we know why the Williams deal fell through and Renault/Lotus are distancing themselves from Kubica. Could be the greatest move ever or a complete disaster.

    Where does it leave Senna/Grosjean and the rest of the their potential drivers. Petrov's money keeps him safe doesn't it?
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  3. John

    John Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    9,726
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,624
    Wonder if its a reason Head has called time on his F1 career, although I acknowledge that the guy is 65 and might not want to be charging round the world for 9 months of the year anymore (not least because he feels the teams ambitions don't match his anymore ;))


    Especially now he is paying for Kimi to outclass him every single session of every single weekend, whilst only showing up to drive :laugh:
  4. kBm

    kBm Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    7,334
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,107
    Im confused;

    Kimi is driving for Renault under Lotus F1 (the 2012 team), but not Lotus as we know it (the 2011 team)?

    What happens to the 2011 team? :confused:
  5. Andy

    Andy Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,760
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  6. chrism_scotland

    chrism_scotland Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,926
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +230
    Yeah the current team become Caterham Racing, Renault become Lotus next year, be nice to see Kimi back although it will be interesting to see how competive he can be.

    Perhaps a glimmer of hope for Barrichello at Williams now......
  7. hdsport

    hdsport Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,212
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +231
    Yep that's it's there are three name changes next season,

    Team Lotus becomes Caterham F1 team.

    Lotus Renault GP actually keeps the same full team name although the TV graphics etc will now show Lotus not Renault as the chassis name will now be Lotus.

    Marussia Virgin Racing changes to Marussia F1 team.
  8. Andy

    Andy Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,760
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,018
    A very faint glimmer I'd of thought seeing as there's going to be a lot of younger drivers looking for a seat, some of them with hefty financial backing which is going to be more appealing than experience.
  9. hdsport

    hdsport Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,212
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +231
    Yeah I think Sutil is favourite with his sponsorship backing if they will accept his off track legal troubles, which are still ongoing aren't they?
  10. Andy

    Andy Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,760
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,018
    I've not heard anything for ages about those legal issues tbh, just did a very quick google and most of the things that come up are dated around May.
  11. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    Really depends on how long Raikonnen is interested in it,and is scoring some points.

    Kubica hasn't helped his long term chances(irrespective of the extent of his recovery)by not releasing much information to Renault,who have actually stood by him remarkably well.
  12. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,282
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +588
    Or he's passed the torch onto slightly younger men and women with the hunger to win. He's presided over Williams technical slump, he may feel now is the right time to step aside and do things to generate money for Williams elsewhere. Anyway I think he only owns 5% of the team now, so retirement might not be far off.


    Well that's a bargain really, Kimi paid for by Petrov. 1 World Champion for the price of 1 average F1 driver with the cash to pay for a drive.

    The other possibility is that Senna or another driver with more in the way of cash may trump Petrov.
  13. hdsport

    hdsport Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,212
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +231
    Western Europe is finished according to Bernie only 5 races in future.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8397777.stm

    Now of course this is Bernie who is always negotiating (making sure those pesky tracks pay every cent he wants) but it is seemingly inevitable, there are only 8 races in Europe next year (and I wouldn't call Hungary western Europe) so which 5 from 7...

    Monaco (Monte Carlo) probably F1 needs Monaco more than Monaco needs F1
    Italy (Monza) LDM will take his ball and go home if Ferrari can't race in Italy
    Germany (Nürburgring/Hockenheim alternating) : Seb V isn't going anywhere soon and it's a big car/tv market.

    So that's 3 down 2 spots left,

    Britain (Silverstone): contracted until 2027 so let's hope that contract has no holes!

    1 spot left

    Spain? Maybe although once Nando goes and if HRT fail as a 'Spanish' national team will interest drift back to MotoGP.

    Belgium (Spa)/France (Paul Ricard) proposed race share as per Germany: Possibly especially as a certain Bernard Charles Ecclestone owns Paul Ricard.

    It does seem though that alternating arrangements are going to be the most viable way for European circuits to stay on the calendar.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  14. gavinl1967

    gavinl1967 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    775
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +85
    Much as I like Rubens, I would like to have seen him retire gracefully at the end of 2011. He's given 19 years of sterling service to F1 and its time for him to move over and give someone else a chance. The same applies to Mr Schumacher.
  15. bri1

    bri1 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,625
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +38
    Do you reckon that Renault/Lotus offered the best stocked ice cream freezer in the garage for Kimi ? :laugh:
  16. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    It'll be be good to see him back.

    We've all missed his pithy humour and irreverence and I'm sure Martin Brundle won't ask him what he's been doing before the race again!!
  17. Kebabhead

    Kebabhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,150
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +509
    I don't see the point of past champions coming back into the sport

    The only reason is they can bring money in

    I want to see fresh new talent not constant reminicing about the glory days like Schumacher

    As for Barachello he should retire as Sundays race did him no favours Eddie was right in that he should retire with his head still high rather than fade into obscurity. He has 20 years in the sport which is a lot more than most of todays drivers will ever experience
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  18. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    Lauda and Prost did reasonably well out of returning to the sport.

    Schumacher however has come back to a less than competitive car and a lot of new guys who won't move over for him.

    Raikonnen has been fast in whatever he's turned his hand to but that's the real problem,not whether or not past champions should come back,but more if he's really going to be committed.

    Your point about fresh new talent is fine but you should remember how much of the current new crop is only there because of the money they bring with them.
  19. Kebabhead

    Kebabhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,150
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +509
    The Lotus is hardly front row competiton and I would expect Raikennen to get the same treatment. Why should new guys simply roll over and make it easy
  20. bri1

    bri1 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,625
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +38
    The Cash they get paid has nothing to do with comebacks at all, I'm sure!


    Can't see rallying paying that much compared to F1
  21. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    If you mean the Lotus Renault then there's no question that this years car was poor but it's a team that is capable of producing front running and championship winning cars.

    As for the new guys rolling over .... Of course they shouldn't if theyre racing for position but let's be honest about things past as Schumi was used to people moving over and my point is that while he's been away a lot has changed.

    Raikonnen has never been worried about exchanging a bit of paint and neither rallying nor NASCAR will have dulled that.
  22. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    Sebastian Loeb and a few others do earn very well,but like in F1,most earn nothing like the top few and many need to bring a budget with them.
  23. Kebabhead

    Kebabhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,150
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +509
    Pity Schumacher hasn't :laugh:
  24. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    Leopard can't change it's spots so to speak.

    He's never going to become an angel in track but a better car might help remove some of the more desperate lunges.

    Could be a good year to come,and this hasn't been a bad one.

    I know a lot of people complain about the dominance of Vettel and RBR but it does make the others raise their game to compete.

    McLaren started the year with a dog of a car and were back on terms by the latter part of the season.

    Lotus Renault made a huge mistake with the exhaust system which they acknowledged as having lost them a lot of time and points.
  25. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,282
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +588
    Stick Schumacher in a race winning car and I bet you'd see him giving the young whipper snappers a lesson in race craft. Schumacher has many flaws (will never forgive him crashing into Damon Hill) but I wouldn't want him to change his style one bit. It was his desire to win that pushed him into becoming a race winning machine and ultimately a 7 time World Champion.


    Mercedes appear to be moving in the right direction, it was always going to take them a while to adapt from being Honda>Brawn GP>Merc. One thing I really want to see is Ross Brawn's tactical genius put up against Red Bull etc.
    Don't much care if It's Rosberg or Schumi winning in a Merc.


    Red Bull have caught the rest of the field napping, a lot of it has been down to a lot of hard work and Adrian Newey's genius. The frustrating thing for me is seeing Ferrari and McLaren flapping about like headless chickens in response to Red Bull. I guess the big weakness with the Red Bulls is the fact it does not have a very good straight line speed compared to Ferrari and Mercedes engines. So If McLaren or Ferrari can nail cornering speed, downforce along with keeping straight line speed then Red Bull may be on the back foot for a change.

    Vettel has yet to be really tested i.e. facing Lewis, Button and Alonso in cars that can challenge the Red Bull properly. What I would love to see is Mark Webber finding his form and putting Vettel under pressure. That would spice things up if Red Bull do dominate next season. I don't have anything against Vettel. He's just followed pretty much the same race plan for the last 2 seasons i.e. Take Pole, gain the lead, scamper off into the distance and build up enough time to keep track position during the pit stop phases of the race. That and consistency has been the key to his success (along with Adrian Newey's design genius and the teams hard work).

    McLaren can engineer themselves out of a hole with a blindfold on.
    If they can produce a fast car out of the blocks and develop that throughout the year, then Red Bull will be under a lot of pressure. Add a resurgent Ferrari into the mix and it should make for a very exciting season.

    They never really had the chance to develop the car due to Kubica's injury. Good idea poorly executed. It was probably worth a shot in the dark for Lotus Renault.
  26. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    Tapzilla.....

    I have to say I agree with pretty much all of that!

    What next year brings should be interesting and the return of turbo engined cars should also be welcome in the coming seasons.

    A year when Vettel,Hamilton,Button and Alonso(and maybe a couple of other ex champions) can all fight over wins would be a great one.
  27. Kebabhead

    Kebabhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,150
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +509
    If he's that good why aren't the tops teams lining up to sign him

    He's past his best just some won't admit it
  28. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    Mercedes signed him on a deal that finishes at the end of next year.

    By then I think he'll hang his boots up for good but it's worked pretty well for both.

    What other team was going to sign him up though....MB wanted a German team and got exactly that plus a lot of publicity into the bargain.

    All of the other top teams(and I think you can put them into the top 5 comfortably )had their options covered and would not have wanted him.

    His best years are behind him now but he's still a better bet than many of the midfield.
    What you really need to compare is a level field and that won't happen but Rosberg has consistently outqualified him if not outraced him.
  29. humanfish

    humanfish Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,604
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +521
    They were a top team capable of producing the goods. I would have to say the jury is out these days. This year alone a large number of staff from the championship winning years have left, and I would have to say that there must be question marks over their level of funding. For my money they could be on a downward spiral, much like Williams of recent years. If they had he funds, they could have developed there way back into the top 3 or 4.
  30. alexs2

    alexs2 Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,911
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,710
    It would be a pity if they (Renault )simply become an engine supplier but there are some rumblings suggesting that.

    Let's hope they do get themselves up again as it can only make the competition better.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page