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DIY projector screen paint finally found for the uk! - black widow

Discussion in 'Projector Screens' started by custard10, Jun 6, 2008.

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  1. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    dont quote me but i think you will need about 4 bottles of AAA equating to 480ml. that should be enough for 2 coats. for 3 coats you will need about 640ml.

    i have based these calculations on chris555r painting 2 coats of BW with 450ml of the BW mix on a 82 inch diagonal screen.

    you can also buy 480ml bottles of AAA.
  2. madasafrog

    madasafrog Guest

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    Many thanks. Have increased the order on AAA. :thumbsup:
  3. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    madasafrog - would you mind sending me a sample of the mix when you paint the wall?
    i would like to take some measurements of it.

    actually if anyone else is painting/painted black widow and can send me sample please PM me and i will give you my address.

    the sample needs to be a thick dot about an inch in diameter on a piece of card/cardboard (ideally a white card).

    thank you
  4. mech

    mech Member

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    Spectro working well than Custy? :smashin:

    mech
  5. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    its working fine although it has been abit overworked lately ;)

    i have found the readings to be more consistent when the samples are flat.

    hope the break has refreshed you :)
  6. mech

    mech Member

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    I'm still on break custy! ;) Too much to do and little time to do it all! :D

    mech
  7. KingSkinTim

    KingSkinTim Member

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    Hi All,

    Thanks for the hard work you guys have put in. I've found a supplier of AAA close to Norwich and had some S0907 mixed up. I've just mixed the two together at a 4:1 and painted my first two coats.... It's very shiny at the moment but I'm obviously waiting for it to dry....

    I must say, it looks pretty dark - more so that i expected anyway, but maybe that's just because I was used to using a white wall with a little grey added in to dull the picture.

    I've recalibrated (quickly) and it's looking good. can't wait for it to get dark now for the ultimate test! I def think the blacks are looking better but need to give it two days drying time and probably another coat before I can go crazy about it :)

    I'll get a sample done and sent off to custy as a small thank you!!

    tm
  8. madasafrog

    madasafrog Guest

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    Sorry I have only just noticed the post. I painted the wall and then the small amount of remaining mixed paint, I threw. I still have 2 packs (120ml) of AAA and a part tin of the emulsion which was a flat matt.

    BTW, I only did coats. Is there much difference between the 2 and 3 coats?

    I notice you live in Walsall. I am in acton trussell, stafford (near penkridge). If your passing nearby at any stage, your welcome to test it.

    I also use a HD 65. The results of this BW were impressive.

    Let me know if I can help out in any way.
  9. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    if you can mix a small sample up that would be a great help. dont worry if you can't as i have 2 samples already on the way to me.
    BTw you referred to the s0907 as flatt matt. where did you have that mixed up? i was under the impression that the paint could only be bought in regular matt or above, and not flat matt.
    was it dulux or leyland/johnstons that you used?

    the reason for me asking for samples is that i want to get an idea on how accurately different tinting machines are mixing up the s0907.

    if you are happy with 2 coats then leave as is. some of us have had to paint 3 coats to get an even finish.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
  10. madasafrog

    madasafrog Guest

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    I can make a mix up if needed and send it to you. I can also send you some of the flat matt that I got from the wolverhampton branch of leyland/johnsons. They did mention that is was quite new and that it may have a slightly different colour so I may be looking at a different BW on the wall. Either way, it does work really well. I only went for the flat matt as they were going to use a vinyl matt which I thought may be slightly reflective.

    The 2 coats were simply rolled onto a plastered wall with a white undercoat. There was a slight orange peel effect initially but this quickly went as it dried.

    PM me your address and I will post these to you. Maybe you can let me know the results so I can see how close my colour is to BW with this flat matt they gave me.

    Many thanks

    Frog
  11. warbie

    warbie Member

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    Hi guys,

    I'd like to try a lighter shade of black widow if possible. My room is pretty well bat caved at the mo, but i'd still like to increase black levels. Has anyone tried something similar?


    Is 00NN72000 CN8 Clouded Slate 3 different to s0907. I'm losing the plot a little here :)

    Lastly, is the absolute black level - just projecting a black picture - affected much by room conditions? My walls are almost black and the ceiling is grey, yet when projecting a black image the screen still looks too washed out for my liking. This is with an HD1.

    Any answers will be much appreciated :)
  12. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    just an update for you guys....

    in the last few months i have been working with mech, harpmaker and wbassett to perfect a lighter black widow.

    harpmaker has produced a lighter black widow for the USA which is soon to be beta tested.
    i have matched up an equivalent clone paint for the uk but i still need to perfect the increase in reflectivity that harpmaker has produced so for now it is not ready for the uk.
    i am still working on this issue and further testing will not be completed for a while..... sorry.

    i am also revisting the craig and rose sensual silver paint to see if i can produce a screen with that.

    warbie - the black level that you can achieve is the black that you see on your wall with lights off. if the black on the wall lightens when you put on the projector with it projecting a black image then the issue most likely lies with the projector. your high end projector should not really produce grey blacks unless it has not been calibrated to produce deep blacks.
    the walls should not be an issue as long as they are dark matt colour.

    you asked about clouded slate 3. this is a grey paint available from dulux.
    heres a link to the info on this paint.
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/projection-screens/815511-fixed-frame-screen-diy-buy-2.html#post7804435
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  13. warbie

    warbie Member

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    Cheers :)

    //edit

    'warbie - the black level that you can achieve is the black that you see on your wall with lights off. if the black on the wall lightens when you put on the projector with it projecting a black image then the issue most likely lies with the projector. your high end projector should not really produce grey blacks unless it has not been calibrated to produce deep blacks.'

    I think it's more noticeable now because the walls are black. If I project a plain black image it is considerably lighter than the walls.

    I'm glad to hear about the lighter BW mix - i'm looking forward to giving it a try.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  14. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    i think the way i have phrased the above remark may have been a touch confusing.
    to clarify: i am referring to the blacks on the wall/screen that you usually project onto, not the adjacent walls.

    if you are using a screen then just move the projected image to one side slightly and then check if the projector blacks are similar to the area now vacated by the projection image. actually you can do the same if using a wall aswell.

    if they are not similar then a simple calibration of the contrast and brightness should do the job.

    from what you have explained it sounds like the projector is producing grey blacks at the moment.

    the only other reasons for washing out of blacks that i can think of are:
    1) ambient light - but yours is a bat cave
    2) reflected light from light walls,ceiling, floor - but yours are dark (and matt i hope)
  15. warbie

    warbie Member

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    I'm pretty sure it's the darkness of the walls that's making blacks look a little washed in comparison. When I move the image aside like you suggested the black level is just barely lighter than the new vacant area of the screen.
  16. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    i take it that your screen is white or quite light then?

    at this point you need to ask yourself do you prefer whiter whites or deeper blacks.
    you can improve black levels by darkening the screen but that will be at some loss of whiter whites depending on how dark you go.
  17. warbie

    warbie Member

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    Yeh. I'm constantly torn between a nice bright image and deeper blacks. I'll watch Blade Runner and prefer a high contrast screen, then switch to Fable and miss the vibrant colours that makes it look great on white. I suspect a supernova screen would do the trick, but I don't have a spare 3.5k sitting around ;)

    Fingers crossed a lighter black widow will be the answer :thumbsup:
  18. warbie

    warbie Member

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    Bump :thumbsup:

    Any updates on the lighter mix?
  19. custard10

    custard10 Active Member

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    i'm on a 2 week break in thailand. will have some more paint supplies to begin testing when i get back...

    beta testing has begun over the pond so should have some more info soon.
  20. warbie

    warbie Member

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    Good stuff - hope you're having a good one :)
  21. mech

    mech Member

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    eddiem74 asked me a couple weeks ago to show how I built my screen and I told him when I came back from my hunting trip I'd post it here.

    I started out with a sheet of Wilsonart Laminate. It was Fashion Grey. I built a frame out of 1X4 inch poplar.

    [​IMG]

    You can see that I added a 1X2 inch 'bump out' for the rope lighting. And I also built my own french cleat for hanging out of a 2X4 and my table saw.

    The laminate was attached to the edge of the frame only using a high strength adhesive. I did not attach it to the center support as I thought that would be overkill. Turned out that later users ended up having trouble if they glued the laminate to the center supports. :confused:

    I then built the outer frame - for the velvet - out of 1X3 maple. I used butt joints, not miter joints. I have always felt that it would be something that won't be seen. And in the 3 or so years I've had it up, I have yet to have anyone walk up to the screen and look at my velvet frame. But I digress! :eek: The velvet frame is screwed to the laminate and laminate frame creating a sandwich if you will. Velvet frame on top, laminate in the middle, laminate frame in back. It's extremely sturdy and weighs in the neighborhood of 60 pounds or so. I can mount it myself. Here's some pics of the Fashion Grey screen:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Fashion Grey did awfully well considering the amount of light I threw at it.

    [​IMG]

    Part two next.... :D
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  22. mech

    mech Member

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    Since then, wbassett, cynical2, and myself came up with Black Widow. This was after testing many other different formulations/concoctions!

    [​IMG]

    And that's probably only about half I've looked at/tested. And that's just DIY stuff. I've tested/reviewed a lot of different commercial offerings as well.

    So, since I was one of the developers of Black Widow, I had to paint my laminate! :thumbsup: I sprayed it with 3 or 4 (I can't recall now...) coats of Black Widow and I've never looked back upon my Fashion Grey. There isn't a paint mix out there right now that compares to Black Widow. Period.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    mech
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  23. mech

    mech Member

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    Here's some spraying shots:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Notice there's a halogen tripod light setup off to one side.

    And use a good squirrel cage type mixer!

    [​IMG]

    If you can get your hands on a Wagner Control Spray, I recommend it. It's a pretty good HVLP gun and it's much easier to setup and clean than my 'commercial' gun shown above!

    mech
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    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  24. eddiem74

    eddiem74 Member

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    Thanks again Mech ! :thumbsup:

    Can you just provide some dimensions also of your screen - viewing area size, laminate size, etc.. I would be looking at making a 100-110"screen.

    Also, can you provide any spec details on the laminate as I am unsure whether I can get that brand over here, or does brand matter ?
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2008
  25. mech

    mech Member

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    Eddie,

    The laminate was 5X8 feet. The frame was built at 54X91 inches. With the 1X3 velvet frame on top of all of this it gave me a 49X86 inch screen or 100" screen.

    FYI - 1X3 milled lumber here in the states is actually .75X2.5 inches...

    mech
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  26. warbie

    warbie Member

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    Have you tried a lighter BW mix, mech?

    My JVC only throws out 500-700 lumen (depending on the bulb) and BW is just too dark for it.
  27. mech

    mech Member

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    My HC3000 is in the 500-700 lumen range after being calibrated and it does fine. There's even someone (maybe more than one) using it with a home built projector. It's all a matter of preference. Do you like your blacks dark and deep? Do you like accurate color representation? Then Black Widow is for you. There isn't another mix out there that is neutral. There are some other neutral paints but they don't have aluminum in them. And contrary to what is said elsewhere, poly adds very little in comparison to how much it robs.

    I know that custy and the crew are working on a lighter version but I believe it has hit some snags.
  28. Ste0803

    Ste0803 Member

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    I'll soon be another new member to the black widow UK crowd.

    ordered my canvas today, the AAA paint, going into town tomorrow to get my S0907 paint and some timber.

    the only thing about my screen that may be different is that its going to be suspended from the ceiling and will flip up and down when in use and will have a LCD behind it for normal viewing.

    i'll post some pictures later in the week when im building and when its all finished.
  29. eddiem74

    eddiem74 Member

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    From a brief look in some DIY stores at the weekend, its seems they only do hardboard / fibreboard, and 4x6 was the biggest I could find. Might have to try a specialist company or perhaps a wood merchant.

    From looking at the hardboard, some had a white surface on one side, and some just had a wood finish, both really smooth though. It appeared to be quite bendable/flexible in the large sheet though, so will need to try and find something not to distorted.

    The search continues...........:rolleyes:
  30. mech

    mech Member

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    :clap: :thumbsup:

    mech
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