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Denon AVR-2310 Official Owners' Thread

Discussion in 'Integrated Amplifiers & Receivers' started by Lagavulin, Aug 20, 2009.

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  1. djdhrubs

    djdhrubs Active Member

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    sorry the last line above should read 'front speakers'!
  2. lappen81

    lappen81 Member

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    Input lag on Wii

    Connected with component cable to receiver, and hdmi from receiver to TV
    Normal games seems to play rather normal, could be a sligt input lag and sound is strange and cut out from rear speakers sometimes. When playing old VC titles like NES mario input lag is intorelable. When pressing jump it's a 2-300ms lag before he actually jumps.

    Tried changing conversiotns from 1080p to 480p


    Guess this issue isn't solved, skimmed the thread but its a fair bit of reading ... I'm thinking of returning the amp , or any indications from denon that it's possible to fix this?
  3. Paul_Blythe

    Paul_Blythe Member

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    Bi-amping my front Mission 773e's is something I'd like to do in the future ... I need to re-read Batpig's guide, but there shouldn't be any issue with the way the Front L/R and Surround Back are connected for bi-amping the front pair. Both stereo channels are rated the same ...

    My centre speaker is rated to 50-200 watt, so a touch more difficult to drive than my fronts and rears (25-100). The Fronts are set to -5.5 (L & R) the centre +4. The Audyssey sets up your speakers too perform as equally as possible for a given volume across all the speakers... As modern movie sound tracks have large dynamic ranges, the quite bits can be a bit too low (unless you can run at the 70dB reference level). so if upping the level of the centre is needed for you to get the most of the movie, then you've just tailored your system to your specific needs ... no big deal :)

    Only had the 2310 for a week and I love it to bits ... over the last few days I've gone from listening to what the amp can do, to evaluating the CD playback qualities from my two disc spinners in Pure Direct mode. Using the analog outputs on both, The Pioneer DV-757Ai leaves the Panasonic BDP-80 dead in the water. With the Panasonic transferring PCM over HDMI, it becomes a very close match to the Pioneer (analog only). The sound & imaging is identical between the two, but the Pioneer manages to squeeze an extra bit of detail out of the recordings ... With a higher spec' unit, like the Oppo BDP83, audio playback should be sublime on the 2310 :)
  4. MarkyMark70

    MarkyMark70 Member

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    Hi Lappen,

    Welcome on your first post... I read about the described 'lag' and have not experienced it myself (although that's not to disregard your experience).

    I've tried an original Playstation, a Nintendo Gamecube, N64 and Xbox360 through their various connections into the AVR and then HDMI to the plasma. Not spotted any delays yet.

    As a suggestion, why not disregard the AVR for the video and go direct to your tv? It would be interesting to see if this works better. It would then at least indicate if the problem is caused by the AVR link in the chain.
  5. lappen81

    lappen81 Member

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    I used to have it connected to the TV directly before I got my AVR but I hooked it up to the TV again just to make sure

    Super Mario Bros 1 (VC)
    Directly to the TV: slight input delay
    AMP Component to HDMI: feels like the delay is double that of when connected to the TV , unplayable

    Excite Truck
    Directly to the TV: trucks handles good
    AMP Component to HDMI: feels a littlebit sluggish

    New Super Mario Bros
    Directly to the TV: might be a small delay not sure very small
    AMP Component to HDMI: Doubled though it was not much from the beginning if any, if correct timing when jumping he does a couple of moves but I miss them all the time when connected through the amp.. Tried pressing a little bit earlier then i'm used to and then it worked.

    Tested a couple of other games not platforming or games requiring much input like bonsai barber and I didn't notice any delay when playing them connected to the AMP.. Perhaps its more noticable on racing, platformig, fps etc?


    Also perhaps the TV adds a bit of delay and the AMP a little bit more which makes it noticable?
    Anyway of testing it without 'feeling it which probably is different for everyone'
  6. MarkyMark70

    MarkyMark70 Member

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    Could you try connecting to the AVR and then use another component cable from AVR to TV?
    Might indicate if there's some sort of issue going from component over to HDMI.
  7. MarkyMark70

    MarkyMark70 Member

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    Just looked up the Wii out of interest... From what I could see on the Wii site, it's not a component connection - It's a video and left/right audio connection. Which 'plugs' are you using on the back of your AVR? Could that be the issue?

    My suggestion would be to use the DVR plugs I've highlighted in green - not the component plugs highlighted in red.

    pic1.gif

    Hope this helps.
  8. lappen81

    lappen81 Member

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    Not sure how, or does it exist component cables with the same connections on both sides (see picture below)

    I will try the dvr plugs , though my cable has 3 plugs for video and 2 for audio
    [​IMG]
  9. Paul_Blythe

    Paul_Blythe Member

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    Lappen, you've definitely got the Component cable for the Wii, it wont work if you plug it into the single DVR video port.

    A lot of internal video processors (amp's & TV's) buffer 3 or 4 frames before displaying the image, this creates the lag your experiencing. TV's include a 'Games Mode' that reduces the number of buffered frames before display, unfortunately the 2310 doesn't.

    What you could try is selecting the Wii video source on the amp and turn off the i/p scaler ... this means the amp only converts the analog signal to digital signal, hopefully this will help to reduce lag a little by not up-scaling etc.
  10. lappen81

    lappen81 Member

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    The first thing I tried :), I think that setting is needed as the amp need to convert the signal or something like that :x.. Anyways if I disable that setting I won't get any picture on the TV only audio.
  11. metalex

    metalex Member

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    How much you will notice lag definitely depends on the game. You will notice lag with any game requiring fast reactions and inputs.

    If you add together the lag of the amp and any input lag your TV may have, then you can have quite a problem. Some TVs have games modes which can reduce lag, but sometimes it is still not enough.

    If you want to eradicate lag as much as possible, you will need to connect a component cable from the amp to your TV for use when you're playing Wii. You should then switch off Video Convert on the amp for the input source your Wii uses.

    Using Guitar Hero on the Xbox, I've measured lag and found that Video Convert causes lag, even with HDMI to HDMI. If you use Component to HDMI, the lag is even worse, as I assume the analog to digital and/or component to HDMI conversion takes additional frames to process. Add the laggy nature of the Wii controller, then you're probably having a complete nightmare.
  12. metalex

    metalex Member

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    It's a nice idea, but if I remember correctly, when I tried this it didn't seem to make any difference. I had to use HDMI to HDMI instead of component to HDMI on my Xbox in order to reduce lag (not an option for the Wii), then switch off Video Convert completely in order to completely eradicate lag.

    Unfortunately, when Video Convert is switched off, you are forced to use the same type of cable to your TV as the source is using, which is a problem when you have a combination of output types on your sources.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  13. lappen81

    lappen81 Member

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    When I get home I will check my TV settings, I read about a game mode with crappy picture and no lag on Samsung LE series (LE40... in my case)
    Also read about a PC mode on hdmi2 on 1080p but not sure if it reduces any, also I would have to set my receiver to scale the component signal to 1080p before sending it to the TV so if I save some frames on the TV maybe I loose some on the receiver

    EDIT :
    And If I dare and find some instructions I will try to update the firmware on the TV as it's quite old.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  14. metalex

    metalex Member

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    I don't know if your TV is one of these, but if it is, you can see how much lag your TV is introducing to the chain and whether game mode will improve matters.
  15. lappen81

    lappen81 Member

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    LE40A552P3 ... the model below seems to be closest.
    <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600"><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl64" height="80">
    </td> <td style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none;" class="xl65">LE52A558P3</td> <td style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none;" class="xl66" align="center" valign="middle">40 ms</td> <td style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none;" class="xl66" align="center" valign="middle">10 ms</td></tr></tbody></table>


    I also updated to the latest firmware and tried Super Mario Bros in game mode.
    Connected directly to the TV: almost nothing, much better then before.
    AMP to TV: unplayable, much better then before but it's still laggy

    Also Excite truck felt more responisve amp->tv but I didn't try it directly connected to the TV this time as I think it worked good.

    If I get time I will try the calibration tool on guitar hero as I apparently have that game and a guitar :clap:
    On saturday I will take my WII into the store and try it on a NAD or similar and another TV (mario) and see if It improves.

    <table style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 510px; height: 41px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl64" height="80">
    </td><td style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none;" class="xl65">
    </td><td style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none;" class="xl66" align="center" valign="middle">
    </td><td style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none;" class="xl66" align="center" valign="middle">
    </td><td align="left" nowrap="nowrap">
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
  16. metalex

    metalex Member

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    TBH, even if your TV has no lag (mine measures as 0ms with Guitar Hero), the lag from the 2310 with Video Convert switched on makes games unplayable, especially when converting from component to HDMI. It's better with HDMI to HDMI, but the lag is stil 40-50ms, which is too much to bear.
  17. MarkyMark70

    MarkyMark70 Member

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    Hi Lappen,
    Yes, you definately have a component cable - please disregard my thoughts. I stand corrected. I do hope you can find a solution to the issue. Best of luck with it. Mark
  18. albrecht

    albrecht Member

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    Hi, does anyone know what to do when I like to set via mnaul setup channel level for source 1(like hdmi1, sat receiver, center speaker high level to better understand TV) in a different way as for source 2(HDMI 2, PS3)???


    "Next, you must balance your speaker output using the CHANNEL LEVEL menu. Select your preference for the test tones, "Auto" (the speaker test tone will cycle continuously through all of your speakers) or "Manual" (you control which speaker is outputting the test tone). Then, scroll down to "Start" and hit the LEFT arrow to begin. "
  19. balders

    balders Member

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    There's also a Channel Level button on the remote that you can use to adjust the levels without the tones, and just cycle through the channels.

    According to the manual though, one of these ways should change it for all sources, the other just for the current source.

    However, I've tried both ways, and whatever I do to the updated channel levels seem to apply to all the sources, not just the one I'm currently using. If you do figure it out I'd be interested in how you did it!

    Balders.
  20. zinzun

    zinzun Member

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    Guys,

    I have a question about Audyssey
    I played quite a bit with MultiEQ and DynamicEQ recently and I reached to a conclusion that I would like a stronger dialog from my center (but not stronger special effects) and I would like less treble in general, so the best option I could find is to set MultiEQ to manual and after copy the curves from flat to manual I lowered the treble in all channels and increased 500hz and 1khz in 2-3db in the center channel - I feel that the overall sound is much better now, my problem is that when using MultiEQ set to Manual , it looks like Dynamic EQ is off by default and can't be turned on, after few tests I made, Dynamic EQ can be on only when MultiEQ is set to Audyssey (haven't checked with Flat and ignore L/R) - any idea why this is the case?
  21. metalex

    metalex Member

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    I can't answer your question on why Dynamic EQ doesn't work in manual mode, but have you thought about trying Dynamic Volume (in conjunction with MultEQ and Dynamic EQ) in order to get more audible dialog? It will reduce the dynamic range, but you have three options, Day, Evening and Midnight, which will affect how strong an impact it has.

    A lot of people complain about quiet center channel or quiet dialog, but I'm sure that has a lot to do with the wide dymamic range of movies, where the sound effects are intended to be extremely loud and scare you to death. Most people have neighbours, and like us, some have a sleeping baby to consider, so tend to turn the volume down to the point where loud sound effects are acceptable. Unfortunately, this means dialog tends to be very quiet on some movies. I think people often mistake this for thinking their center channel is set too low rather than it simply being the case that it is the intended dynamic range of the movie they're watching. Dynamic Volume should fix this to some extent.
  22. zinzun

    zinzun Member

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    Thanks for your reply - I do use dynamic volume but only as a "night mode", I would like to have the option to enjoy the full dynamic range of the movie with manual calibration as I mentioned in my previous post, the thing is that I do not watch movies at reference level (0db - aren't we all?) so I wish to use dynamicEQ to compensate for that...
  23. zinzun

    zinzun Member

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    Is there any way I can reduce treble and have DynamicEQ working?
  24. BamBamMickey

    BamBamMickey New Member

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    No, fraid not mate.
    MultEQ & Dynamic EQ will calculate how hard or soft the trebles should be based on your layout.
    Agree with what metalex said, Dynamic Volume is your friend in this situation or if you can't stand affecting the Dynamic Range just turn up the centre channel.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  25. fuzzz

    fuzzz Member

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  26. metalex

    metalex Member

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    I'm not familiar with your cable box, but you shouldn't need the audio cables on the Scart to Composite video cable, assuming all audio will be sent via optical.

    Does the Humax box offer the option to send an S-Video signal from the Scart output? If so, you could get a better picture from a Scart to S-Video cable. Do you even have to use Scart? Is there a standalone composite video, S-Video or component output?

    Regardless of how you connect the Humax to the 2310, you don't need to run an extra cable to the TV, as you just use the existing HDMI cable, and yes, it will upscale to 720p/1080i/1080p, but don't expect miracles when you're sending a composite video signal to the 2310.
  27. fuzzz

    fuzzz Member

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    Thanks for answering my question....I`m a bit noob in this but my digital box loks like this http://www.upload.ee/image/345145/IMG_0146.jpg .
    So there are ongy scart out and optical for the sound....???

    cheers
  28. metalex

    metalex Member

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    Yes, looks like scart is your only option for video. You should check in your cable box's setup menu to see what video output options are available. If there is an s-video option, the picture will be better than composite video, but you would need an s-video to scart cable. If not, a simple composite video to scart cable will be fine, as long as optical can handle all the audio duties.
  29. fuzzz

    fuzzz Member

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    my cable box have only two options CVBS and RGB no S-VIDEO.....is there any improvent at all to connect my cable box to receiver via composite and upscaled to 1080i....maybe it´s pointless to play with it...?

    cheers
    fuzzz
  30. metalex

    metalex Member

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    If your box can do RGB through scart, you can purchase adapters to convert the signal to component. This should theoretically give a much better picture than composite, but I've no idea if there are drawbacks to be aware of, and this one I found is quite expensive:

    RGB to YUV Component Video Converter Only £71.51 at TVCables

    I wouldn't say upscaling is pointless, as you might see an improvement, but don't expect genuine HD quality.
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