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Bounced Cheque

Discussion in 'General Chat Forum' started by RobsterD, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. RobsterD

    RobsterD Member

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    Hi people
    I need some advice.On a recent transaction I took as part payment a cheque for £150 this has subsequently bounced.
    I have the guys bounced cheque,email,mobile which he now is not replying to and his home address,is there any legal way to retrieve my money or shall I use the knock,knock baseball bat trick:D
    Any thoughts
    Rob
  2. Orson

    Orson Moderator

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    Send him a text, an email & a letter telling him that if he doesn't contact you in 7 days, then you're going to sell his debt to a firm of collectors, who will add on a whole load of fees & charges - this quite often gets folks attention.
  3. Mac Man

    Mac Man Active Member

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    Seconded.
  4. auvb80

    auvb80 New Member

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    go and break his leg and retreive the money he owes you from his wallet while he lays in pain regretting what he did

    :devil:
  5. Mr Cat

    Mr Cat New Member

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    a visit with a baseball bat looks good to me :smashin:
  6. Astaroth

    Astaroth Member

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    Any contract is enforcable but unless there is a writen contract then it is difficult to prove what the exact terms were. My guess is that you part exchanged something and as part of the deal he gave you something and an additional cheque for the remainder of the balance.

    As long as you can document what the agreement was, and that it is him that entered into it (problem with forums could be a "that isnt me gov" due to the amonimity the internet provides) then it can be enforced. You may be able to pass the debt to a collection agency - my understanding is the rules on these have changed recently so they can claim their fees from the person that owes the debt rather than the person who "sells" the debt. Alternatively you could issue a small claims court proceedings against him but this may not be time/ cost effective.
  7. Ian J

    Ian J New Member

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    Unless the rules have changed recently issuing a cheque is deemed to be proof of debt
  8. RobsterD

    RobsterD Member

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    I swapped 3 speakers for his two and the £150 was for my centre,I drove to his place to exchange the speakers and all seemed above board,so I accepted a cheque,the original advert was on HiFiForSale.
    I dont really want to get heavy handed it's not in my nature and the guy did seem genuine,ironically we both commented what a change it was too complete such a straight forward clitch free transaction:cool:
    I thought about small claims court which seems like the only "legal" avenue to take:rolleyes:
  9. Jenn

    Jenn Active Member

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    It is illegal to issue a cheque if you don't have the funds on your account.

    I believe if you complain to the bank they can pursue the account holder.
  10. Ian J

    Ian J New Member

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    It isn't. It is illegal to issue a cheque knowing that it will not be met which is much harder to prove.
  11. w3dal

    w3dal Active Member

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    Funny,

    I checked my bank account today and someone has credited £1,153 pounds into my account and i have no idea why.

    Been on the phone to the bank and they cant find out where its come from either.

    If you do send him a letter send it recorderd delivery so you know when its was signed for.

    Dal
  12. Astaroth

    Astaroth Member

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    Ian J - you may well be correct, I am stretching my knowledge of contract law here :D Certainly if there is other supporting evidence of a contract it would be benefitial to any form of debt collection.

    Certainly with ourselves, we treat "no intent to pay" as fraud but it is a case of having to prove not that there were no funds at the time but that the customer knew when buying our product that they wouldnt be paying (either from capability or willingness) - most of ours are easier though on the grounds it is DDs they cancel prior to any payments being taken and then dont ever respond to us again.
  13. LV426

    LV426 Administrator

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    You haven't said : What was the "answer" on the cheque ? (i.e. the reason it bounced?)
  14. RobsterD

    RobsterD Member

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    Hi the reason on the cheque is "refer to drawer"
    quote on the letter
    "Refer to drawer(RD)-On the day the paying bank received the cheque,they looked at the account of the person that issued it(the drawer of the cheque)and decided they couldn't pay it.For full details why,and to arrange to be paid in another way,you should contact the drawer."

    So looks like funds were not available to cover the cheque.
  15. LV426

    LV426 Administrator

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    As an ex-banker, I can tell you that
    "Refer to Drawer"
    is an answer only given when effectively all relationship between the Bank and Customer has broken down - the Bank sees no likelihood that the Customer will ever pay funds in to meet his debts and/or this or any other cheque. It doesn't happen suddenly, and there is no question that the Customer would be unaware this would happen - i.e. that the cheque is worthless.

    (as distinct from "Refer to Drawer, Please Represent", which is an answer given in much earlier stages of this "breakdown", when the Bank believes funds may well materialise in the near future).

    And I'd re-inforce what IanJ says about the legal position - the cheque is proof/acknowledgement of the debt. As to whether you'll ever get your money, that's wholly another question.......
  16. johndon

    johndon Member

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    As another ex-banker I'll second what Nigel has said, we only bounced cheques 'Refer to Drawer' as a last resort.

    John
  17. RobsterD

    RobsterD Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    I'll send the guy a polite letter and then go from there:(
  18. Sandy13

    Sandy13 Member

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    I am in a similar situation as Rob Dear, the letter from my bank stated "Refer to Drawer Please Represent" and "The cheque has again been presented for payment and we will advise you if it is returned unpaid again."
    This letter came on Saturday.
    I contacted the person and his answer was "I will send another cheque on Monday (tomorrow) as loads of Direct Debit came at once", his exact words.

    The unusual part in all this, is that I checked my account online Friday morning, and it showed the cheque (£50) as money available, which wasn't when I checked the day previous, so I naturaly assumed it had cleared, and therefore posted the item to him. The bank sent their letter on Friday.
  19. Ian J

    Ian J New Member

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    "Refer to drawer, please represent" is slightly different from rob's cheque as this is bank code for "there isn't enough money in his account today to meet the cheque but there could be in a few days". It sounds like the bank have automatically represented the cheque so you don't want a fresh cheque as that will just confuse the issue.
  20. Sandy13

    Sandy13 Member

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    Thanks for responding. So, are you recommending that I contact him, and advise him not to send another cheque, or should I just let him send it, and wait for the bank to inform me of the outcome of the represented cheque?

    The way I see it, if the initial cheque doesn't go through, I can't see a new one being much good either!

    Can anyone explain why the cheque appeared to clear, but obviously didn't?

    Cheers, Sandy.
  21. RobsterD

    RobsterD Member

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    Sandy
    Let the bank represent it and inform the drawer,if that one bounces the drawer is gonna have a large bank charge,I think they represent a second time automatically.
    If the second attempt fails they'll send you the cheque back.Sounds similar to me,checking my account I had two debits of £150.
    My problem is now thankfully resolved the guy debited my account the full amount :clap: (he must read these forums:) )
    Rob
  22. Woodywizz

    Woodywizz Active Member

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    When a cheque is paid in it will show on a mini-statement/or online banking as being credited; however that does not mean it is cleared. If your online banking was definitely showing it as cleared, ie including it in your available funds as opposed to simply showing it crediting your account, after only a day then I would take the issue to them. Banks wil generally start paying interest on a cheque credit after 3 days, and it will show as cleared after 5 working days. Having said this, a cheque can never really be classed as cleared, I have known of situations where a cheque has been returned unpaid after several months. You can only be 100% sure that the cheque is cleared if your bank sends the cheque for special presentation - ie, they write to the issuing bank asking for confirmation that cleared funds are available to meet the cheque - and they get a positive answer; however this can add days on to the transaction as your bank has to await an answer from the payer's bank. Many customers believe that requesting 'special clearance' on a cheque speeds up the clearance cycle, in fact it does the exact opposite and can prolong it - though you do have the comfort of eventually knowing that the funds will never be returned.

    As opposed to receiving another cheque from him, ask him to give you either cash or to CHAPs the money direct in to your account. If he refuses to do this then I would ask myself as to why he is refusing - reason being he obviously does not have the cash to honour the transaction. If he is still obstructive then get a solicitor to send a letter stating that he is in breach of contract - you made an offer of the goods, he accepted, you provided the goods, and he did not provide the consideration (the cash) - and that the matter will be pursued in court with all costs to be met by him. If this does not work then buy yourself a balaclava and go on a visit to his house.

    Hope it all gets resolved.
  23. Sandy13

    Sandy13 Member

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    woodywizz, Yes, it did show on Friday morning, about 10am, that the money was included in funds available, I was checking on a daily basis, waiting for that to happen before I sent the item to my trading partner.

    As Rob Dear said, I will now wait and see what happens to the represented cheque.

    In the meantime I have e-mailed my bank asking them to explain what happened last Friday, when I get a response I will post it here.

    Cheers, Sandy.
  24. ufitsy

    ufitsy Active Member

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    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  25. mason

    mason Member

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    i dont think it will be long before cheques will no longer be acceptable as method of payment...... there are places already that dont accept them and with inteernet banking being first on most peoples list of paying bills etc. it wont be long at all.

    I personally wouldnt accept cheques for personal payment of goods.... although i accept them from clients, however, i then know them and know if they are good for the money!!
  26. partyweb

    partyweb Active Member

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    I can't see how you can totally do away with cheques. What about mobile tradesmen (plumber, builder, painter, windowcleaner, milkman, children's entertainer ;), etc.) who can't carry around a POS cc terminal.
  27. mason

    mason Member

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    they will end up with portable terminals or something like that
  28. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki Active Member

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    Don't forget to **** on him while he is laying in a pool of his own blood either.
  29. geomuss

    geomuss Member

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    you do it from your mobile! :smashin:

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