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Barclays Premier League Thread 2010/2011. Part 9

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by John, May 8, 2011.

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  1. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    Thank you, glad someone else is saying it too. England look so much better also without Steven "gives the ball away" Gerrard :smashin:
  2. MintMouse

    MintMouse Member

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    Hodgson was terrible in every point of view. Every time he opened his mouth he seemed to aggravate Liverpool fans. Every time he sent his team out playing long-ball football he aggravated the fans. If you're going to play such a brand of football you'd best make sure you get some results (ala Aladryce), but even those were awful (Liverpool flirting with relegation).
    Now you could make some concessions for the performances and results due to internal factors - no one expected this to be a good year for Liverpool football club, but Roy Hodgson managed to make it pretty disastrous. :).

    I disagree that Hodgson was doomed at the start. He would have been given plenty of slack if he had made the right noises in his interviews and played some dignified method of football. How could he have given himself less of a chance?
  3. MintMouse

    MintMouse Member

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    Don't personally think Gerrard is a shadow of the player he was a couple of years ago...which is a shame.
  4. majson83

    majson83 Member

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    I've said it for a while that Gerrard isn't as good as some make out, though that seems harsh as it's not quite what i mean. there's no doubting he is talented and does a lot of work and scores a lot of goals etc. but maybe it's as i said before, he's not so much of a team player.

    i think England play better with lampard on his own rather than Gerrard. I know i am one of the few who seem to think this but lampard is the type of player who attempts the simple 10yard pass and likes to keep the ball. Gerrard likes to play the hollywood pass a lot, not always that would be unfair. But england best performances of the past few years have been with lampard alone in the middle of the park playing simple passes and being patient, the 4-0 win over crotia springs to mind.

    I guess the difference is that Gerrard has been able to take the game by the scruff ot the neck and really put everything he has into it to rescue something almost on his own at times. As a creative force i think he has a bit more to offer than Lampard but as a team player, at keeping the ball and a general midfield role i think Lampard is brilliant and unfairly treated at times by England fans.

    I still think both can play for england, and should as they are two of our best players, but it would need a change of formation. you give rooney and gerrard a freeish role sbehind a central striker and have lampard in a midfield 3 (ideally with wilshire and parker if you ask me) but a sort of 4-3-3 formation would allow our midfield to do well and combat and allow rooney and gerrard to not be restricted and let their creative sides flow...but i'm no manager so it might not work, i just think we'd get the best bits of our best players instead of asking them to play roles they aren't famailiar with which we always do.
  5. Stockholm

    Stockholm Active Member

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    I believe he would have had to sell both Carragher and Gerrard in order to exert his authority over the squad as he was never likely to have a close working relationship with those two players, both of whom are the most influential players at the club, simply because of Hodgson's demeanour and methodologies. Guys like Gerrard enjoy banter and a more casual relationship with their 'gaffer' but Hodgson isn't the type of guy to engage in that kind of relationship with his fellow countrymen.

    I think his tactics didn't help the situation, but I contend that his working relationship with the players and fans was the biggest issue he faced at Liverpool.

    Before tactics and coaching comes a manager's relationship with individual players and his squad in general, and those relationships are absolutely critical to the success of a club. If a player doesn't like a manager or doesn't trust him then it can be detrimental to his performance for the duration of the manager's tenure.

    Using Rangers as an example of how disharmony between a manager and his most influential player can cause a club to perform poorly then the case of Barry Ferguson and Paul Le Guen is worth considering. Ferguson is, imo, similar in personality to a guy like Gerrard in the sense that they consider themselves the alpha personality in the dressing room and love banter. Le Guen is, like Hodgson, a disciplinarian who was distant with his players and introduced new ideas (double training sessions) that the players rebelled against. Apparently, Ferguson and his Scottish buddies in the squad decided to stop following Le Guen's instructions during matches, often drifting out of position and playing with a lethargic style. Ronald Watterus, the former Dutch international keeper, also alleged that Ferguson fell out with McLeish at one point and deliberately sabotaged results in order to put him under pressure. Players can be fickle and petty like that. I think something similar happened at Liverpool under Hodgson.

    Just look at Milan's celebration the other night after winning the league: half the squad were shouting obscenities into the camera about their former manager Leonardo instead of celebrating their first Scudetto since 2004.

    I just believe that Hodgson was facing the horns of a dilemma: sell Gerrard and Carragher asap and bring in my own players who I can use to influence the dressing room, which would have caused massive problems from the outset between Hodgson and the Liverpool fans; or keep those players knowing that they will hold more influence over the dressing room than I'm ever likely to.

    I conceded, however, that perhaps Hodgson believed he could win Gerrard and Carragher over.
  6. MintMouse

    MintMouse Member

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    The thing about that theory is that Benitez is the coldest manager around. He wasn't one to comfort/cosy up to Meme or Carragher, yet both played their best football under Benitez. Infact, many believe Gerrard and Carragher had a few bust-ups with Bentiez over their best position. I believe that Carragher came out a few times in strong support of Hodgson too.
  7. Sega Mega Dave

    Sega Mega Dave Well-Known Member

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    Gerrard is another example of our clueless media over praising what is essentially an above average midfielder.

    It's no coincedence Liverpool look a better and more composed outfit without him in it, it's also no coincedence that since Alonso and Masch left he's look very average, he's always been carried.

    Unfortunately because he's English and a local boy all will praise he's the best thing since sliced bread.
  8. Sega Mega Dave

    Sega Mega Dave Well-Known Member

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    You also only have to look at players like, Walcott, Lennon, SWP to see another example of overhype.

    How long now has Walcott been developing, he still can't control and kick a ball properly like the other 2 above.

    Anyway back onto the topic, 5 teams could still be going down on the last day, i can't remember it ever being so close.
  9. MintMouse

    MintMouse Member

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    Think that's pretty far off the mark. Gerrard was one of the outstanding players in the world for a number of years, even before Mascherano joined the club (and during Alonso's own distinctly average years).

    Gerrard is certainly no longer the player he was (based on the past two years), I wouldn't argue with that, but he was far from 'an above average midfielder' a few years ago...in my opinion.
  10. majson83

    majson83 Member

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    i agree mint i am not saying he's a bad player just not a team player but the way liverpool have played, or the position he's been played in (off the striker) has meant it's been ok for liverpool.

    For england he's been playing as part of a midfield 4 which isn't his role, nor is is lampards really but i feel he can do that better than gerrard.

    Gerrard has been an outstanding player with great individual talent who sometimes doesn't work as a true team player, though he works hard for the team there can be no denying that. when i say he's an individual i dont mean that he's self centred like many can be, he does work for the team but sometimes is guilty of over complicating things or holding onto it too much and not doing the simple things 1st.

    even now he's still a great player, though inury has taken it's toll for sure.

    While i do agree he has been hyped perhaps too much, maybe i should say i feel he's definatly the media darling and as a result many people just believe the media on all things so hold him in equally high regard.

    Both Lampard and Gerrard have been utterly fantastic players for their clubs but sadly have been played in positions they are not ideally equipped to play in for England. Many people have said this but instead of altering our system we ask them to alter the way they play then we moan that they dont reach the ability and brilliance they show week in week out
  11. majson83

    majson83 Member

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    SWP is not held in high regard by many yet always gets picked for england, not often for his club. Lennon has done well but doesn't seem to feature much for spurs right now and as for walcott i actually think he's had a great season.

    He has said being picked for germany hindered him and that he felt he didn't deserve to be there, he has taken time to adapt, while also suffering a few big injuries, but seems to be showing the promise everyone spoke about.
  12. Dony

    Dony Active Member

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    No surprise to see Cuddicini starts for Spurs.
  13. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    Hey I was laughing about Gomes not starting but apparently he is injured. So not dropped by Harry. Yet.
  14. Dony

    Dony Active Member

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    I believe he injured an eyelash and the staff decided to pull him from the game ;)
  15. JimmyHart

    JimmyHart Active Member

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    Heard that many times too. Stevie Me wanted to play CM for some bizarre reason, even though he was playing his best ever football behind Torres. Apparently Rafa also wanted Carra to play RB to cover for injuries and he said "P*** off, I'm not playing there, you shouldn't have bought such crap players".

    It's pretty much fact that players forced Rafa out, via Purslow, but it's starting to sound like Carra was the main one behind it lately. It's pretty much fact now that they were the ones behind Woy coming in too.

    Thankfully we've finally got someone in who they don't dare get on the wrong side of now though.
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
  16. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    If it were me Liverpool would sign two CB in the summer. One because Agger is too injury prone :)(), the second because Carra is getting on a bit. Whilst always more steady than spectacular, he is increasingly prone to fouls the more pace he loses and he never had a lot of it to begin with. And yes, for other fans, he has made a few dodgy hack-tackles over the years...
  17. JimmyHart

    JimmyHart Active Member

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    Yeah I agree, don't know if we need new ones in, but we certainly need to be thinking about our options. Carra is without a doubt getting on now, but unlike Sami when he lost his pace, he doesn't have the positioning to make up for it a lot of the time and gives away silly fouls. Real shame about Agger too as he's a class act when fit.

    In a perfect world, I'd love to see Skrtel and Agger form a regular partnership, with Sami coming back as a coach now that he's retired.

    I think the wings are more important for us at the moment though, certainly on the left. Kuyt is good on the right, but then there's no one else really unless Glen goes there and we put Kelly back in at RB.
  18. bktan

    bktan Member

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    Palacios starting? Ugh.
  19. Citizen J

    Citizen J Active Member

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    :rotfl:

    On another note I think FZR was right when he stated earlier that Spurs would not want to finish 5th. Redknapp has been making statements today basically stating that 5th place could have a detrimental effect on their season next year. It sounds like he would rather finish 6th should he miss out on 4th.

    I did think similarly to be honest but didn't state it at the time.
  20. Dony

    Dony Active Member

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    Typical of the season...just when we look like we are playing well and Modric should score, we go and shoot ourselves in the foot.
  21. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    I did cheekily suggest a few weeks ago City would finish above Arsenal. Still on course :D
  22. YNWA1892

    YNWA1892 Active Member

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    I heard he left his gumshield at home and refused to play

    Looks like it is a fight for 5th with Spurs

    Sent from my iPhone using AVForums
  23. YNWA1892

    YNWA1892 Active Member

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    I heard an interview with Harry today (think it was on the radio) which he said that they want to finish as high up in the league as they can and if that means Europa then they will take that

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  24. Bloodzeed

    Bloodzeed Active Member

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    Empty seats everywhere at Eastlands
  25. clc.sheff

    clc.sheff Active Member

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    Fixed :smashin:
  26. YNWA1892

    YNWA1892 Active Member

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    surely you want to fix the bit about 0 points in the league as well if you are a Utd supporter :p
  27. bktan

    bktan Member

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    Why do we play Crouch against bigger teams? The only thing he provides is height and even then he doesn't always win the ball and he can't dribble when we break. He's just so one dimensional. Not a top tier team player.
  28. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    Mancini planning on defending his way to the CL 2012?
  29. Oggie

    Oggie Active Member

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    Boring to watch but it does the job
  30. Steven

    Steven Senior Moderator

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    Only half the time. As I recall just the weekend gone Everton came back to win
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