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AVR600 HDMI handshake error with Panasonic BD60

Discussion in 'Arcam Forum' started by damianw, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. awhb

    awhb Member

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    Yes! That, at least, worked fine when I trialled it with my Pioneer LX508D plasma a couple of months ago (f/w v1.8) - The Pioneer info display should show "36 Bit", at least it does on the 508 models.
  2. Ian_S

    Ian_S Member

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    If turning on hi-speed mode results in snow, then it is your cables.

    Deep colour can increase the data bandwidth requirement on your cables by as much as double, so we're not talking small increments here.

    If the player is also set to 1080p, and the last thing played was a DVD, you could be in 1080p 50/60 mode, which along with deep colour can be more than 4x the data rate needed, ironically, to play a Blu-ray at 1080p/24 with 8-bit colour.

    Not all HDMI cables are created equal, it's true that once you have a working one, a more expensive one can't improve the picture, but if you have snow, you have non-working cables for the data rate you're asking them to display.
  3. damianw

    damianw Member

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    Its not the cable. I have tried 3 cables now, gradually increasing in cost. Last time was a Panasonic High Speed HDMI cable, 1.5m, that was actually the recommended part listed for the Panasonic Bluray player.

    Now its using a 1m Techniks thing, shielded high speed cable, with lots of 5 star reviews plastered all over the packaging.

    And its digital isn't it? It either works or it doesn't. No, as far as I'm concerned the fault is in the 600 with some component going out of spec when the full bandwidth of 1080p/high colour is sent through it.
  4. kingfats

    kingfats Well-Known Member

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    Easy way to test the cable is to connect direct to the screen :smashin: sorry of course if you have already done this.
  5. damianw

    damianw Member

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    Yes, already done it. Works fine when connected to screen.
  6. kingfats

    kingfats Well-Known Member

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    Then the problem lies with the amp then surely. :(
  7. Ian_S

    Ian_S Member

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    Myth 1: Digital is Digital.

    There is some truth to this, however it only applies when you have a working setup. At that point a cable can't change the 0's and 1's, so a more expensive cable can't and won't change the picture.

    However, when things aren't working, you get sparklies, snow and then complete picture loss. If your new Pioneer works with hi-speed mode off, but does not with it on, and you get snow, then it really is looking like a cable problem. If a device doesn't support a picture mode you usually get a blank screen, i.e. no connection.

    Myth 2: Price of an HDMI cable has anything to do with quality

    HDMI cable quality is all about bandwidth. Even worse, to gain certification, a cable manufacturer only has to certify one cable in that range, not all cables at all lengths. Guess what happens? You can get very expensive cables that don't work and quite cheap ones that do. Any review in a magazine that claims one HDMI cable gives a better picture than another should be binned. Hence when shopping for cables, use the HDMI forum here. There are some very good Assured Advertisers who sell decent cables that will work for reasonable money. If they were doing anything else, they'd get eaten for breakfast here. Plus, I believe they will exchange cables if they don't work.


    The longer the cable length the more problematic it becomes. This is largely down to the signal strength of the transmitting device, and the ability of the cable to get a decent signal to the other end. A poor transmitter + poor cable may fail to get a decent signal, whereas a device with a decent transmitter may work over the same cable.

    So in the scenario's above where you have more than one device aren't necessarily easy to troubleshoot, esp with 7m cable lengths.

    Also, deep colour is pretty much not worth it. Nearly all the deep-colour implementations on BD players simply let the HDMI transmitter chip perform colour upsampling at the point of transmission. This is a fairly basic function, and really is only there to allow marketing claims. Blu-ray as a format does not allow deep colour. It's 8-bit colour only, and extremely compressed at that. The only players I'm aware of that do something different here are the Sony BDP-S5000ES and the Pioneer LX91. Both have specific processes off the HDMI chip to perform colour upsampling. You'll be hard pressed to find many people raving at the difference it makes. You'll get more benefit buying a decent display that takes a good signal and processes it well, according to the panel characteristics.

    So, if you're having HDMI issues, turn OFF deep colour on the player and amplifier. Then turn off any HDMI CEC function. If you get snow, you need to look at the cables too. In this case set the resolution to something really low like 576p. Then work your way up. Don't assume that because a cable works between two devices that it's guaranteed to work between all devices. If you have multiple links then you need to test both cables direct to screen, and also between amp and screen if the amp lets you display the menu for example at different resolutions and colour depths.

    If you have long cables, then it might also be worth trying two short cables.

    If it's then a problem with a specific device, then the info you find out by systematically going through this may help narrow down the issue more quickly, which in turn may increase your chances of a firmware fix if required.

    Also make sure you have the latest firmware installed for all devices.
  8. damianw

    damianw Member

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    The point about "deep colour" not being worth it is interesting, however there's a point of principle here. Something in the amp isn't working properly. Please don't mention cables again it just isn't the cable.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  9. Ian_S

    Ian_S Member

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    I'll mention cables until I'm convinced you've tried all possibilities. ;)

    How many do you have at what lengths? Have you tried all the cables running your BD player with a DVD, 1080p output, and deep colour turned on, direct to your display? This is the highest bandwidth and most likely to cause issues. If you have a US DVD, and turn off 24p support that would be the highest bandwidth option as it will be 1080p/60 with deep colour. Also force the player to output 4:4:4, which means you have a fully uncompressed signal. So on the Pioneer, HDMI Colour Space = YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB doesn't matter which RGB. YCbCr 4:2:2 is still colour compressed.

    What most devices won't tell you is what they automatically negotiate transmission to, so even if you have some options set, devices may drop down to supported levels. Confusion can ensue when intermediate devices come into play and perhaps get that wrong.

    Then turn off all HDMI CEC function everywhere including on the TV. So no Kuro-link, Viera Link, Regza-Link, etc.

    On deep colour, the spec for the Toshiba says it has 10-bit processing. This normally means that it can process 8-bit signals without introducing rounding/precsion errors, so won't support really 'deep' colour signals. Which would further strengthen the view that it won't add anything to your setup except perhaps trouble.
  10. damianw

    damianw Member

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    This is duplicating info I have already sent to Arcam. I will update the thread when and if we get a resolution.

    For your info - BD player->Arcam = 1m Techniks high speed cable (What Hifi 5 star cable)
    Arcam->Toshiba = 1.5m Panasonic high speed cable

    Both cables have been changed. And I have changed inputs on the AVR600.

    I currently have Bluray player set at 1080i with high speed turned on and it seems happy at that. My eyes can tell no difference whether high speed is on or not, which backs up your info. That doesn't matter - I didn't spend over 3 grand on an AV amp that appears incapable of performing properly when the full HDMI bandwidth is used.

    I have turned off Regza link. Not sure if I turned off the equivalent on the Pioneer - but I did on the Panasonic Bluray (remember I'm on my second Bluray player that exhibits the exact same issue) and it made no difference.
  11. onthebeach

    onthebeach Member

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    My AV888 is now switching HDMI perfectly and without an issue. My BD60 as well as my Denon 1920 and the PVR are being fed through the 888 and into my new Pioneer 500m.
    The problem I was experiencing was with the older model Pioneer 505HDG and not with the AV888.
    As soon as I changed the TV the AV888 performed as it should. In fact on 1.8 I have not experienced any problems with the AV888 that were its fault. :)
  12. flippintyflop

    flippintyflop Member

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    Hi can anyone help just bought panasonic blu ray and after 5 or so minutes playback stops the screen goes bright green, then HDMI shoes on the display and the movie starts again a few seconds further on, i have tried 3 different hdmi cable of varying price
  13. damianw

    damianw Member

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    My issue was getting snow on the screen, but it sounds familiar - not locking on to the HDMI properly. Have you tried different HD resolutions? E.g. try 1080i instead of 1080p to lower the bandwidth.

    All sounds familiar. I never did update this thread, but my issue turned out to be a broken AVR600 and it required replacing.
  14. thewhiteknight

    thewhiteknight Member

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    Hi guys,

    I just got a BD60 for Christmas and had the same issues with my Onkyo 605 receiver. Here's how I fixed the snow/handshake issue: enter the setup menu, enter the screen resolution menu, select your screen resolution (1080P), if you see snow/flickering of the picture/or if picture goes out press and hold the play and stop buttons on the blu-ray player (NOT the remote). This should reset the unit to 480i. Go back to the setup menu (if not already there) select the screen resolution menu, select your screen resolution again (1080P), it should be perfect now. This is how my issue was resolved.

    Good Luck!

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