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AVR400 Question

Discussion in 'Arcam Forum' started by Roger Weir, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Roger Weir

    Roger Weir Member

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    I've been to a local dealer and I want to confirm what he told me. I have an Arcam Solo (original), connected to Sky HD box, Apple TV and Samsung Blu Ray, all by analogue phono cables. These devices connect to my Samsung 6000 series TV via HDMI. When watching Sky TV or Apple TV etc the sound is slightly ahead of the picture giving a lip sync issue. Not massive, but noticeable.

    I would like to replace the Arcam Solo with an Arcam AVR400. I propose to connect the SKY HD, Apple TV and Blu Ray box direct to the AVR400 by HDMI, the have a single HDMI connection to the TV.

    Would this eliminate the lip sync issues caused by the TV's own video processing. The dealer reckons yes. I think each input would need it's own lip sync adjustment; can the AVR400 do this.

    Any guidance would be welcome.
  2. larkone

    larkone Active Member

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    You can set audio delay in the Sky HD box already and probably in your bluray as well.

    From the AVR400 manual:

    Lip Sync – Each input can have its own setting
    to add a time delay between the audio and video
    signals to compensate for the sound and picture not
    being synchronised. This is normally required when
    video processing is used in the system for scaling or
    de-interlacing video. The range of lip sync delay is 0 to
    250 milliseconds.
    The lip sync adjustment can only correct for delayed
    video. If the audio is late set lip sync to its minimum.
  3. Roger Weir

    Roger Weir Member

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    Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

    I knew about the Sky box adjustment, but it only seems to affect digital audio out, not analogue.
  4. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    Mind if I use this thread? My title was the same. Lol.
    I know that the AVR400 does stereo direct, bypassing the internal DAC.
    I intend to connect my apple tv through an rDAC to the 400 for music.
    I will have a sub connected to the LFE channel. The manual sais there will be a small amount of processing to send the audio to the sub when using sub/sat setting.
    Does this mean the audio goes through the internal DAC, making the external rDAC pointless?

    Hope that makes sense.
    Thanks.
  5. larkone

    larkone Active Member

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    The rDAC will be used because you will be connecting that by an analogue connection and selecting that as the input. My understanding is that there will be no LFE channel info for music so you will just be using the internal crossover to send bass to the sub assuming you are just using the stereo settings. No bass is sent in stereo direct. You are connecting the sub to the sub out, it is not an LFE socket. It only carries LFE information if it is present. Otherwise it will be bass signals determined by the crossover setting that you set.

    worth reading P35 - stereo mode
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  6. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    Ok, read p35 (again) and it seems to me that running a sub/sat system means that I can't use stereo direct.
    This sais to me that the 400 WILL use its internal DAC.
    Which again, defeats the point of the external DAC. Right?
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  7. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    Page 40
    Stereo
    In this mode the AVr400 works as a conventional high quality audio amplifier. note that if the subwoofer is enabled in stereo mode, then some processing of the signal will be carried out. To achieve ultimate sound quality with analogue sources, select the Stereo Direct function if an analogue connection is present.

    *** is 'some processing of the signal'?

    Is this like you say, crossover processing, or like I think it is, DAC processing.
    Hmmmmm.
  8. larkone

    larkone Active Member

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  9. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    That's awesome. Thanks for that.
    It all makes sense now.
    I've been 'worrying' about this for ages.
    =)
  10. dglozic

    dglozic Member

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    Actually, I don't think you got it right. In order for DSP to be applied, signal must be in digital domain first. That means that if DSP needs to be applied to the incoming analogue signal, it first has to be converted to digital using ADC, processed, then converted using Arcam's internal DAC before sending it to volume and power amps.

    If you use Analogue Direct, all processing is bypassed and pure analogue signal is sent to volume and power amps. It is not possible to perform any DSP on analogue signal before first passing it through ADC, which makes external DAC pointless.
  11. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    :sigh:
    Looks like one for smarties.
    Failing that I shall email Arcam and ask them.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  12. dglozic

    dglozic Member

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    That is always a good idea. But my hunch is that if Arcam is doing all filtering in the digital domain via DSPs (in addition to adjusting delays etc.), you need to convert the signal to digital to take advantage of it. I think pure direct is for people with L/R speakers that can sound good on their own (no subwoofer).
  13. larkone

    larkone Active Member

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    Yes your right - apologies was trying to hold conversation on phone whilst writing - never good.
  14. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    Ok, smarties didn't know, not even the blue ones.
    I've sent an email to Arcam support.
    If anyone cares I will get back with any reply.
    Thanks for you time guys.
  15. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin Member

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    Actually it's easy. Bass management in all Arcam A/V devices is carried out solely in the digital domain (Myryad can do it in the analogue domain, Arcam does not). Hence if you need bass management you cannot use stereo direct, and the input signal will first be converted from analogue to digital ("ADC"). This furthermore means than an external DAC prior to the AVR is an additional expense with possible additional deterioration of sound quality as the only benefit, asynchronous USB excepted. The resultant digital signal will be processed as specified by the various options ("DSP"), After this, it will be converted back to analogue ("DAC"). So the sequence is ADC - DSP - DAC, universally.

    The same applies to lip sync - it is carried out in the digital domain.

    If you use an HDMI / optical connection from your source you'll be using digital signals anyway, reducing the sequence to DSP - DAC.

    For completeness: Arcam's A/V devices only have stereo ADCs, hence you can not apply digital processing such as bass management to multichannel analogue inputs, unlike processors such as the Anthem D2v or Denon AVP-A1HD, which do have multichannel ADCs.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  16. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    rDac off the shopping list. Thanks for that. You just saved me a couple hundred ££.
  17. dglozic

    dglozic Member

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    What you may add to the shopping list depending on what you want to connect is Musical Fidelity V-Link. It will allow you to connect your computer to AVR400 via the asynchronous USB. Even if your computer has a digital output (optical or coaxial), most of the time it has high jitter, while V-Link will give you a very clean, jitter-free connection. If you use Toslink, it will also separate your computer from AVR electrically, preventing ground loops or other ground-induced noise to creep into the system.

    OTOH, AVR400 claims special circuits to minimize jitter on all digital inputs, which may make the difference negligible. I would suggest connecting AVR400 on its own and only proceed if you feel you can do better. For example, I have Anthem MRX 700 and V-Link and find my computer audio over HDMI as good, if not better, than via V-Link. Consequently, I may be selling my V-Link soon - it is currently sitting behind MRX700, connected but unused.
  18. Theclam2008

    Theclam2008 Member

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    Won't be connecting a computer to the AVR.
    I have no problem shifting my mindset to an external DAC being pointless.
    Thanks for your input.

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