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Am i seeing Phosphor trails? (Panasonic TH42PZ85).

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by gex18, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. Murazor4096

    Murazor4096 Member

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    I bought one (well, a Dutch PZ80 actually) over a week ago, and I'm also experiencing horrible phosphor lags on high-contrast games with below-average frame rate. I made a movie of Fallout 3 to find out what I'm actually seeing.
    [​IMG]

    I must say I can't really play like this, as everything appears to be double on-screen when rotating. Also, it's not just me being sensitive, as I've showed it to two other people noticing the same thing.

    It's a shame, as I'm really happy with the other things I show on it, being SD content and Bluray movies - The Dark Knight did show some phosphor lag, but only on very close inspection.

    I'm still pondering on the wether I should return this set and go for an LCD instead - although the return date has already expired, I might ask my retailer this favor, but I need to do so quickly. Can someone please confirm this really is normal and will fade away over time?
  2. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    That video is similar to the phospor lag im seeing on med / high contrast scenes and PS3 games, hoping the effect will lessen over time. Another question re the PZ85 - watching hancock (SD DVD) last night i noticed motion handling on panning shots was very jerky and juddery, is this because of 3:2 pulldown? How do i lessen / correct the problem? Having IFC on or off seemed to make no difference?

    Many thanks

    Anthony
  3. choddo2006

    choddo2006 Active Member

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    Was it a Region1 disk?
  4. choddo2006

    choddo2006 Active Member

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    Hmm, my new screen (pf11 rather than pz80) isn't showing it much in Fallout3. I've been playing it a lot (I am compelled to by its sheer genius) and I'm sure I'd have noticed, but yes, what you're describing does sound the same.

    I have to say, on the content where I do notice it, I'm not sure if it faded over time on my last screen or I just stopped caring.

    I certainly get double images though when rotating at full speed, but that doesn't bother me. I get that on all 30fps games. I'm not sure you don't get it on LCDs too, simply because of the response times. The effect might look slightly different though.
  5. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    No its region 2. Watching it again atm I cant be sure if its jerkiness caused by the processing or the actual filming itself? Hope I dont come to regret the purchase of the TV:(

    Many thanks

    Anthony
  6. sirp

    sirp Member

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    that does look bad, and is putting me off plasma more and more :(
  7. Murazor4096

    Murazor4096 Member

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    I've never cared much for it on my old CRTtelly, but now I wish all games would run at 60 fps. :rolleyes: I hope I can stop caring - since I've never had an LCD either, I'm afraid I'd hate myself for getting one after testing it here with games. I do wish this phosphor lag would not just display green, because it changes the complete color scheme of the scene.

    Well, it does look a bit less worse when you actually see it in motion, but it's still not nice.
  8. fishman09

    fishman09 Member

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    hi guys

    picked up a 50pz81 a few days ago and i too see the 'trails'.

    i'm one of these people that is very sensitive to all sorts of picture effects. on the pana i see yellow trails (matrix/sin city) but on lcd i had a slight rainbow effect now and again plus had black smear.

    last night i was sitting infront of the plasma, revisiting some of my fav hd films and whilst i could deffo see the trails i honestly don't care. compared to my old sony 40 lcd, the panasonic produces a massively superior pic, i mean its not even a close race, they are miles apart on quality. so i've come to a point where i can live with the one flaw of the plasma, compared to the processed/smeared/blurred look of a lcd.

    just my opinion and the trails are a pain in the arse, but its the only flaw i can find on the tv, hell i even like IFC :)

    like someone else said earlier in the thread, i think (hope) that the trails will lessen as the panel ages or i notice them less. have yet to try a fps on my 360, will try it tonight and update

    cheers

    fish
  9. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    I prefer leaving IFC on too, seems a tiny bit smoother (but it all helps). Compared to my old R87 samsung LCD, the colours and image quality on the plasma are in a different league altogether:clap:

    Im happy with my purchase (even with motion issues), you oughtta spin up Call od Duty : WAW and see if you can spot the phosphor lag - i can but the image displayed is vastly superior to that of my old samsung LCD so I will live with it:smashin:

    Many thanks

    Anthony
  10. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc Active Member

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    But I bet you can set the R87 up next to the Panny and get it looking virtually the same, with the exception of black levels of course.

    I was surprised at how close I could get the R87 to match the PX80 and PF11 panansonics, the settings were ridiculously different to where I had them when the R87 was in the bedroom, but it looked great once matched to the pannys.

    That was with Snowboarding on RushHD, obviously as soon as something dark came along the differences were like night and day. :D
  11. fishman09

    fishman09 Member

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    ok guys have tried cod4 and a few others fps's. the trails were (as expected) noticeable. i'm running on cinema/warm, with a few notches down on brightness and colour.

    thought i'd not fiddle with the main settings as i like them where they are, instead i tried the colour balance. left it on warm, trails very noticeable. tried it on normal, less noticeable, but still there. tried it on cool and they were almost invisible.

    of the three modes cool offered the least amount of trailing but the 'accurate' (as warm is considered closest to calibrated) tint of the picture was lost. in the context of games probably less important than films etc.

    decided to fire up some hi-def material...namely sin city which i consider a torture test for the trails being high contrast and pretty much black an white.

    again tried the changes in colour balance and again cool offered the least amount (almost unnoticeable). so i'm stuck now between using what the experts consider offers the most accurate pic to using the cool setting which blues the pic but offers less of the one flaw...trails

    will do some further testing this evening when i'm in my normal viewing conditions to see how much (if any) shadow detail is lost/black level affected etc by changing to cool from warm. if the only diff i can see is purely skin tone accuracy then i'll decide one way or the other.

    hope this helps

    fish
  12. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    Ssssh, don't say that, my missus would kill me:eek::rotfl:
  13. smokingreen

    smokingreen Member

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    I have a panny panel (PX60), I also see phosphur lag. I used to be pretty obsessed by it, but after a while I stopped noticing it. I'm not sure if the effect was reduced as the panel aged, or whether I stopped caring as much. Either way I just enjoy playing games on it now without panning left and right lookingm for trails.

    Regarding the double images that are being shown above in fallout 3, is that not just a symptom of low framerare (30fps)?. I know I really started to notice this when I first got my plasma (and again got slightly obsessed!), but then I experimented with my old crt and noticed the effect was there, albeit less noticeable because the screen was much smaller. You also see the same effect with panning shots in films, but when I started to notice the double image when I was at the cinema (sad, I know!!) I figured it must just be a combination of framerate and new toy obsession.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2009
  14. japvirgin

    japvirgin Member

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    2nd try of posting...

    I have the same tv and same problem :(

    also lip sync using xbox hd blade runner (cheap lead)?

    Cod4 is so bad i cant play it :( Was told if you want xbox get a plasma!!!

    when using my old freeview i had a small pic and sound now no pic or sound :( What do i need with 2 AD boxes!!!

    Does anyone know if freesat box give you sound and pic of what your watching and looking at tv guide?

    So much for upgrade....

    Girlfriend keeps say old tv was better! a CRT!

    hope it gets better....

    What are best settings for xbox 360?

    Thanks

    Dan
  15. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc Active Member

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    Interesting.

    I was a little annoyed by the trails when I first got my PF11, the PHD8 didn't show it all.
    However, thinking back I have not noticed it since calibrating the colour temp. properly, I had put it down to just racking up a few more hours on it, but maybe it is the excessive green push on warm that is causing, or highlighting problems??


    Now, I have to say that I although Warm is probably closest to accurate on paper, I think Normal is actually closer to a claibrated screen, if you knock the blue back a touch it is very similar.
    Warm is far too yellow.

    If I switch between WARM and Calibrated there is a massive difference.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. choddo2006

    choddo2006 Active Member

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    It's not 3:2 pulldown, that's for sure.
  17. BYF

    BYF Active Member

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    My PX70 Plasma does exhibit some phosphur trails but nowhere near as bad as described on this thread.

    Setting contrast too high will make it even worse, as will a dark viewing environment, try contrast no higher than 50% in CINEMA mode in a dimly lit room and see if it's any better.

    Also some games I've found use a certain kind of lighting which creates very high on screen contrast, it not only looks unrealistic and far too bright but will make phosphor trails more noticeable. Games like COD4 and Gears use it, I'm not a fan of it.

    I game on my plasma alot and it's not really a problem, on TV, DVD, BLURAY I very rarely notice it.
  18. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    Oh dear:(

    Im currently using the music player on the PS3, with the visual player set to the Earth panning round slowly, when the horizon / atmosphere appears (the bright white / blue) it seems to shimmer and judder slightly:(:mad:
  19. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    Just thought id bump this thread up for others who have the same problems.

    Its been used for around 150 hours so far on conservative settings (using eco with nothing above 50%), the phosphor trails are still very appparent with no visible reduction in them on either Blu ray, SD dvd, PS3 gaming or SD digital viewing but im hoping they will fade over time (or I will just get used to them). Still got the problems with the judder when any movments appear on screen (to the point where it strains the eyes), does pulldown only occur on blu ray dvds or can it occur on upscaled SD dvds also? The last few days also when vieiwing digital TV ive noticed every so often when i flick to the guide or change channel im present with a black screen - no image, audio, no nothing - the only thing that corrects this is to switch off the power or select an av input and then switch back to the TV. Anyone else had this problem? May have to contact panasonic about this (when my 5 year warranty forms arrive that is:rolleyes:).

    Many thanks

    Anthony
  20. airjaff

    airjaff Member

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    .
  21. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc Active Member

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    I disagree.
  22. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc Active Member

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    Why are you in ECO mode??

    It takes around 600 hours to run the set in using Normal and Contrast at around 50-60%.
    In ECO mode I reckon it will take a good 2000 hours to run the screen in properly.
  23. airjaff

    airjaff Member

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    Oops
  24. Doug S79

    Doug S79 Member

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    That's disappointing. I just registered here so I could add that I'm experiencing the same issue with my brand new 46PZ80. I don't have a Blu-Ray player yet, and I have an Xbox 360 rather than a PS3, but other than that my experience is the same. Green trails in medium to high contrast areas.

    So far I've only played The Force Unleashed, Gears of War and Assassin's Creed on the new TV, but it's really bad in all of them.

    I'm going to take my Xbox to the TV store on Thursday night and do a comparison. Hopefully they'll have a Panasonic plasma that's been completely broken-in (although being just after the Christmas rush, I wouldn't be surprised if they're all new stuff on the shelf -- there were some empty spaces when I bought my set). I'm going to try the Xbox on some other plasmas as well as LCDs, and see what I can find out through direct comparison. Obviously, I'm hoping a broken-in Pany will be fine. I will report back as soon as I have some results.

    I haven't hooked up a digital cable box yet, but this sounds really crappy. Could it be an hdmi handshake thing? Are your cables running through a receiver or anything? I've heard sometimes you have to be specific about the order in which you turn your devices on.

    Doug
  25. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc Active Member

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    :D
  26. Barzo

    Barzo Member

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    I returned a Panny 42PZ85 back in June (and a PX80 before that), due to problems with phosphor trails. Watch a lot of B&W classic movies as well as playing games, and phosphor trails (green or yellow fringing) very obvious on both. GoW or GTA Iv are obvious games to show this. In the end, went for an LG Scarlet LCD, which I am mostly happy with. However, black level response is much poorer than on the Panny plasmas, and motion not as good.

    It is all about compromise - nothing is perfect. Sometimes wish Id kept the Plasma. :)
  27. $$Buck-Naked$$

    $$Buck-Naked$$ Member

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    High end Samsung and Sony LCD's have the same blacklevel as all Panasonic Plasma's (0.05cd/m2), without the phosphor lag or the dimlit screen.
    Ghosting isn't as annoying as phosphor lag and with current 100Hz LCD's it's reduced to a minimum.
    Ignoring the Pioneer Plasma's, high end Samsung and Sony LCD's are king.
  28. Barzo

    Barzo Member

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    If you get one without massive clouding, perhaps. Bitter experience shows that clouding is still a big problem on screens from these manufacturers. Much worse than any other problem, IMHO. Perhaps when LED backlighting tech matures,LCD will get closer to performance of plasma screens, without the negatives. Here's hoping.
  29. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc Active Member

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    That's crap. You need to go to the LED dimming panels and they have their problems.

    The 7/8 series LCD from Samsung are really behind plasma black levels. My 4 year old PHD8 had much deeper blacks than the LE40756 I bought.
    Don't get me wrong, I think they are great and in many areas beating plasma now but black levels is not one of them.
  30. gex18

    gex18 Guest

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    It was on eco initially, then cinema but has now been switced to Normal with a contrast of 50%:thumbsup:. No improvment as of yet (its been running for around 200 hours thus far).

    Many thanks

    Anthony

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