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Am I flogging a dead horse - SAMSUNG UE40D5520R flashlight?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by bluin, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Hi guys - i've been a long time browser (great forum/resource) first post.

    The main Crux

    So my first question is – is it possible to get a SAMSUNG UE40D5520R without any flashlighting in any of the corners? So far I've had two and both had problems in the top right of thescreen.


    Additional: Below are pics which are examples of the problem i have/had (borrowed from other forum member's images) but my clouding and spotlighting wasn't as bad as these examples on a purley black screen as i needed a partial image in the centre of the screen to exacerbate the anomoly:


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Brief back story:

    3 weeks ago I bought my first SAMSUNG UE40D5520R for our bedroom and deliberately opted for this particular TV because of its weight (as it will eventually hang on a stud wall and weight is an issue)its features and its great reviews. The picture was great, and the added smart features are better than my Samsung 654C downstairs (which I love).

    However, as soon as it became dark itbecame apparent that it suffered from a 2 inch flashlight bleed in the top right corner and moderate bleed/clouding in the centre of the screen. Both of these are not visible during daylight viewing but as soon as it becomes dark the problem becomes evident especially in dark scenes (even with side lamps on). The central clouding/bleeding not so much but the torch light was noticeable to varying degrees in low lit pictures. As already mentioned this has been bought specifically for our bedroom so all the viewing is done at night… :/

    So after a lengthy debate with Comet about ‘fit for purpose' and the fact that the box doesn't advertise – ‘comes with added torchlight and clouding' – we got a refund.

    So we promptly drove to Currys and were informed about their hassle free returns policy and so asked them to pick out abox that was the least battered. Loaded it into the car and noted from the label that this model was also manufactured in Slovakia and prepared myself for disappointment (ever the optimist.)

    And as it turns out I wasn't to be disappointed – as soon as it began to go dark I noticed exactly the same problem. The top right hand corner has a 2 inch flashlight bleed and bleeding/clouding emanating from the top of the screen into the middle (Could have been the same TV apart from the colours aren't as vibrant on this set.)

    As mentioned before I don't mind the clouding as that dissipates with any image but the corner flashlight catches the eye in dark scenes – so it looks like I'll be returning this screen too. However, I'm going to give it a chance over the next couple of days and play around with screen settings again. I'll also loosen the rear case screws a half turn around the affected areas as this helped get rid of the slight left flashlight on the first screen (or it just died away naturally and the loosening of the screw was coincidence).


    Additional info for the really initiated in the internal gubbins of edge lit leds:

    I work with computers as a hobby – build them, troubleshoot, strip them down etc and have also taken apart a few monitors in my time.

    As a result I'm really tempted to take the rear panel clean off (it's a simple process) and then try loosening the 'actual' screen panel screw (a quarter turn) in the affected area - as part of me feels that it's a pressure problem as its directly where the screw holds the inner panel in place in that corner. It looks as if the problem is caused by the rear part of the screen being pressed to hard against the 'surface screen' (if that makes any sense). For example if you press an led screen with your finger you'll see a smear of light - so i think (and admit I'm guessing here) that it might be a similar issue as it's exactly where the inner screw is located on the inner panel (seen online pics of internals).

    Anyone in the know please feel free blow this theory out of the water as I can then stop giving it sideways glances with my trusty Philips in my hand…

    Any advice, personal experiences greatly appreciated - especially those of you who have uniform screens which is all i'm after. Actually slight clouding wouldn't bother me - it's the flashlight effect in one corner that is my major niggle.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  2. Ambrosse

    Ambrosse Member

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    I recently bought this TV too and have the exact same problem. I was a bit concerned when I noticed it at first although it doesn't seem to affect my viewing in any way so i'm stll quite happy with the TV as I felt I got it for a good price. If I was paying closer to £1000 then I would certainly return it but I think it is still a great TV for the money despite the clouding problem.

    When no image is on screen it can be seen around the edges in various places and in the two top corners so mine is probably worse than yours if you only have it in one corner.
  3. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Thanks for the reply Ambrosse.

    I do have torch lights in other corners but only slightly - and actually the bottom left is much bigger but it's faint enough not to be noticed in even dark scenes.

    However, i have the dreaded set comparison now - the colour reproduction on this screen is nowhere near as good as the last. Everything seems washed out as though there's a slight haze in the background - i have to have the black toneset to 'darkest' for it to slightly compare to my last screen.

    I've followed the HDTV settings but even adapting these settings isn't helping. My standard Samsung 40 inch LCD downstairs has better blacks than this one so even if i could live the torch light effect i think i'll be asking for a refund.

    I think i'll wait for then next batch if i do - and then accept a level of torch light with crisp sharp picture/blacks.
  4. Ambrosse

    Ambrosse Member

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    Yes I guess it comes down to personal preference although it definitely is a problem with the 5520 also well documented in all reviews of it. Despite that it still has very good reviews.
  5. bluin

    bluin Member

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    I only came across the clouding issue in reviews so allowed for that - had i read about torch lighting i think i would have been more sympathetic to the fault (in a pro review - not forum banter as people only tend to post when they have a problem plus it's subjective).

    Trouble is i now own a unit with similar torch light issues but poorer all round picture quality - hind-sight is an evil annoyance sometimes..

    If i had my time again i would have kept the original - if Samsung displayed the TV in a room highlighting accepted quirks then this process wouln't be so subjective and wouldn't leave the consumer doubting as to whether they have a defective unit or not. Having said that i accept their sales margins might dip considerably...

    Trouble is i can't see me keeping an inferior panel to one i just returned. If i do return it i think i'll wait for a new batch to appear...
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  6. Ambrosse

    Ambrosse Member

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    Would we be able to return due to the clouding would you think? I guess you could say it is a fault in the manufacture.
  7. bluin

    bluin Member

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    If your clouding isn't excesive and isn't effecting your TV viewing (even during night viewing) i wouldn't think about returning it as, from what i've read, including pro-reviews, this 'is' an expected phenomenum.

    My issue is torch light bleed and the lack of uniformity - i.e. 3 corners OK/bearable one corner with an obtrusive bleed which distracts the eye when viewing in a darkened room. I didn't pick up on this in the pro-reviews that i read and so am treating it as a fault (at the moment) the reality is that Samsung regard this as normal. They really should add this caveat to the outside of their box as it would save a lot of grief and confusion...

    This again is subjective and it may be that my screen wouldn't bother most. In fact i've had a few replies on a differenct forum where people have recognised the torchlight effect and deliberately made the conscious decision to put up with it.

    Unfortunately, i can't (well not yet) as this replacement TV's picture is not as good as the first - so i'm not going to settle with a screen which still has torch lighting and poorer picture quality.

    My advice is stick with the TV you've got as you seem happy with it and save yourself the grief and path of aggravation that i've started for myself.

    I thought my only comparison was going to be backlight bleed but now i have picture definition comparison added to the mix... :/
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  8. Ambrosse

    Ambrosse Member

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    Yes that is true I think I will stick with the TV as I can put up with it.

    Although I am a bit annoyed with Samsung as I've found out that they have released this TV with a cut down version of some of the Apps for Smart TV. This leaves me feeling a little like they will stop supporting my TV with apps in the future. I am going to wait to see how it pans out though and see if Samsung do update the apps in the future.

    As for the back clouding problem I was playing around with the settings last night and I found that it can be reduced to almost nothing. I don't know what setting it was which worked although it seemed to almost eliminate it. So I was thinking maybe the settings which you have at the moment are making the clouding problem much more noticable.
  9. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Which apps are these - i know it doesn't have the web browser - what other apps have been omitted?

    Backlight (approx 9), Black Tones and Shadow Detail (awful at anything set below 0) and dynamic contrast - all will help a lot when combined.

    Here are HDTV settings for a guide - link
  10. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    I am using those linked settings with the sharpness at 20 for HD and gamma at +2 - they seem good...

    But they are using LED MOTION PLUS set to off, so unsure - as I though that setting was Samsungs "sort of 100hz"??
  11. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Every panel is different but the HDTV settings are a good starting point. I use the THX calibrator via Disney/PIXAR DVDs to also help fine tune the picture. The rest i do by eye/personal preference.

    I don't use this feature - and i don't like the way that SAMSUNG have advertised it as it's a psuedo 100Hz and the advertising blurb is misleading.

    If you notice an improvement then obviously use it - but i would play around with it and see how it effects different movies, sports, and games etc...
  12. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    Well yes, my model is similar but without smart TV (UE40D5003) and the box has 100hz displayed on it as a feature... if it doesn't have 100hz, then how are they getting away with saying it has?
  13. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    ah I see - they call it a clear motion rate of 100hz and state "unlike the refresh rate..."
  14. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Yep, and as a marketing ploy it's genius but as a consumer relations stunt it's a disaster as lots of people have been mis-led by the blurb on the box - deliberatly so as even the retailers get confused when trying to sell the product (i had to correct all the salesman i spoke to)...
  15. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    LED Motion plus just seems to darken the screen.

    Going back to your issue - reading other threads on higher series Samsung LEDs it seems to be common even on those with flashlighting, clouding issues... think its down to the panel and obviously its best to get the least amount of issue as possible, but its pot luck.
  16. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Yes, it is but it shouldn't be as it's not stated on the outside of the box - although i don;t have a problem with moderate clouding or unobtrusive torch lighting.

    If they had a small disclaimer saying - 'Expect small amounts of clouding and back light bleed' - i would probably have kept my original purschase. But even having a disclaimer as simple as that is subjective.

    Instead they advertise as having superior blacks and brilliant coulours etc - no mention that these blacks may be interrupted in dark scenes when viewing under low lighting.

    If they were totally honest (and i include all companies selling led TVs) about their products limitations - a lot of people may have kept the TV they sent back (myself included).
  17. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Brief update - Currys took it back and refunded it wothout any issues. Mainly because i had a major bleed at the bottom of the screen which i wasn't aware of as i had never viewed it from the side with a black mostly image.

    Fortunately i took pictures - but TBH they were ready to refund with me saying the words 'the screen has a fault' - great service.

    I'll upload my pics tomorrow for those of you who are interested - but what was strange about this fault was that it wasn't noticable when viewing the TV straight on - it was when viewed at approx 45 degrees - and then you could see major bleed at the bottom and side edges. I literally noticed it as i wasn't getting ready to take pictures of my torch light fault - and it caught my aye as i came in with the camera.

    This may explain way the picture quality wasn't anywhere near as good as the previous screen and why the colours looked washed out.

    I showed the Currys guy these pics (even though he was doing the refund) and he said it was the worst case of bleeding he had ever seen. Yet the wierd part is that it didn' show up on darkened screens when the panel was viewed head on at eye level.

    Anyway, i have stacks of work to catch up on as i wasted far too much of day trying to fine tune a faulty TV - so i'll upload my imagaes tomorrow of this 'wierd' side bleed.

    I now have my old 26inch Samsung back in our room now - lets just say it's rather underwhelming - but at least it not irritating the **** out of me as i watch it.
  18. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    so what are you going to go for?
  19. Ambrosse

    Ambrosse Member

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    Thats a shame because I still think it is a nice TV so maybe you just got a dodgy one then. But maybe best not to risk getting another bad one and go for something else.
  20. bluin

    bluin Member

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    I'm still willing to try another Samsung but from a different batch so John Lewis for me next when they get their new stock in (I may wait a ccouple of weeks though as i've had my fill of LED TVs.)

    They only cost £50 more but you get a 5 year guarantee and hassle free returns - none of this subjective allowable bleed business - plus they pick it up for free. But, hopefully i'll get a decent one next time - i'm due some luck...

    Below are the images that i managed to catch yesterday using a fairly standard digital camera without any time delay.

    I used a freeview channel that wasn't broadcasting at the time (channel 98 – a channel for those wishing to learn how to lip read late at night ;)) as it broadcasts a single piece of solid text in the middle of the screen which was perfect for showing off my torch light bleed but was amazing for showing the following phenomenon when viewing the TV at a 45 degree angle and at a slightly elevated level.

    I'd be really interested to know if anyone else's LED does this on a screen/image like this (i.e. a fixed image in the middle of the screen) when they're not directly opposite the screen (especially Ambrosse and orac1971 - as it may turn out to be a normal prhenomenon if both your screens have it too). You're TV will need to have fully warmed up to try the test - approx 20mins+.

    I will stress that when a full image appears it hides the phenomenon (also light/daylight) but when credits or a fixed image such as below is on the screen it was clearly visible (Yet in cannot be viewed face on and level with the screen). I'm assuming it was this that was causing the poorer picture quality on this panel…


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    The bottom bleed/anomoly is obvious but if you look around the edges of the screen you'll also see others. But like i said these were not evident when viewing the TV straight on - odd...
  21. RocketRonnieRad

    RocketRonnieRad Member

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    I dropped the Black level from Off to Darkest and I was very happy with the result.

    Almost no more torching and bleed.

    Just tested the theory on the black screen test and it worked.

    Can anyone with clouding and bleed try this please.

    Picture mode - Movie
    Backlight to 8
    Brightness 50
    Blacktone darkest
    Gamma 0
    Contrast 97
    White balance off

    And let me know what you think ?

    For me it has eliminated the bleed and clouds and flashlight effect and has resulted in a most acceptable and agreeable picture.

    The only thing is that its a bit darker.

    I'd love to know someone elses opinion.

    The funny thing is that if I use the presets for natural standard and dynamic with a black test pic on a USB there is no bleeed / clound or torching.

    If I use Movie calibrated with proper settings I get all the above. So from this we know that the TV is capable of delivering the desired result. The question is whether it can give the desired result in accordance with calibrated settings.

    I find it very strange that we can get a cloud / bleed free image with the presets where backlight and contrast are cranked to the highest settings but once tuned down this introduces light uniformity issues.

    This is counter intuitive at least for me.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  22. bluin

    bluin Member

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    This will help with this type of problem but for me (and maybe you with further viewing) the resulting colour representation in dark scenes was too dark - i actually lost a lot of definition using the Black Tone option. But all panels are different so hopefully it's worked for you.

    I too could almost eliminate my torch lighting using: 'black tone' set to darkest, 'dynamic contrast' and 'shadow detail' set to -2. However, as mentioned above i couldn't then get a decent picture/colour. Plus 'SHADOW DETAIL set to -2 was laughable on my panel as it made the change between light and dark scenes too brutal - plus there was a visible delay before the TV made it's colour/brightness adjustments.

    The standard settings - such as Natural - use these settings and i'm beginning to think they're there to help mask defects for the average user with slightly inferior screens (it must save them a lot on returns if most people don't attempt to change their settings).
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  23. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    Thanks bluin for photos...

    I will try and take some tonight - I did turn of all lights last night, put it on a black screen and there is certainly some torch lighting, but not I recall from the bottom of the screen like yours (more top sides) and probably not as much... will see what it looks like.

    I do think that its not possible to totally eliminate it (maybe LED is too early in its introduction?) and it didn't effect viewing on the darker scenes of the dark knight or the beginning of the godfather.
  24. RocketRonnieRad

    RocketRonnieRad Member

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    Fair comment bluin however I would urge you to try with shadow and dynamic contrast set to "off" and see.

    As you crank brightness up from 50 - 70 you see the definition come back but also a little bleed.

    Next plan is to try to adjust the brightness with black tone set to Dark and see if I can find a happy medium.

    Now regarding loss of color - have you used any calibration settings on the color side of things or left them to default ?
  25. bluin

    bluin Member

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    No worries.

    I stress you need a small fixed image in the middle of the screen to fully get an idea of more subtle bleeds (freeview channel 98 – before the scantily clad women appear is a good test) but hopefully your screen won't have anything remotely similar plus you seem at ease with you slight torch light issues so if your pictures are of high quality I personally would stick with it.

    To a degreethis is true – as if you have subtle backlight issues they can be reduced if not eliminated. Which is why I think the box should carry a disclaimer warning potential customers that ‘This product may suffer from subtle backlight bleed in darkened viewing environments'. But as mentioned previously it would still be a subjective issue…

    Great films BTW.


    Thanks forthe reply RocketRonnieRad (that's even a tough name to type let alone say :))

    I don't have one to test at the moment as I'm waiting for John Lewis to get new stock. But for both TVs I used the HDTV settings for the UA40D5520 – link- as a base level to work from, plus I never use dynamic settings as I'm a fussy b*gger and 'nearly' always notice auto screen adjust settings (although I must admit I haven't noticed the built in ‘automatic backlight dimming' which apparently cannot be disabled with these Samsung models).

    I then worked through every conceivable setting permutation possible to try and get uniform blacks and still retain a quality picture with the correct colour balance.

    The first TV I could get fantastic picture/colour but the spotlighting was impossibleto fade when viewing in a darkened environement.

    The second TV – pictured above – obviously had more serious issues than the corner torch lighting and this was probably why it was impossible for me to get an acceptable colour balance and quality picture.

    I thinkI've just been unlucky – I still rate the TV as it seems exceptional value for themoney – once you've got one that's fault free at least… :)
  26. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    and just seen I got mine (SAMSUNG UE40D5003) last week from Comet just in time - prices have gone up.
  27. bluin

    bluin Member

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    N1 - great screen for the money.

    I on the other hand seem to have benefited from this saga as John Lewis are now selling the TV at £479 (same price as Currys and Comet) but with the free 5 year warranty and more impotantly their no quibble returns policy.

    Don't get me wrong, I would have much preferred - not becoming the leading exponent on the UE40D5520 LED TV and its subtle bleed issues - over the past few weeks with - added metronomic rocking motion included – but a bright side is a bright side.
  28. RocketRonnieRad

    RocketRonnieRad Member

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    Hi Bluin,

    The full name is RocketRonnieRadox but there werent enough characters left ;)

    Certainly sounds as if you know what your looking at.

    As I said, I'm gonna re check my 7000 issues with a PVR HD recording of the wonders of the universe and my black test screen again tonight and see if I notive any loss of detail / definition from the mods.

    I still canny get ma heed around the fact that the presets dont suffer from these issues if used as is. Its only after calibration settings are used that the issues come to light.
  29. bluin

    bluin Member

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    Good luck with it - i hope that you find that the definition is still there - as you know, all screens are not equal so it could be that your other setting tweaks may balance out your 'Black Tone' setting. Here's hoping anyway...

    TBH, if the picture looks good and you're happy with it i wouldn't look too hard for a fault or else you're bound to notice a niggle.

    It would seem if you get a set with bleed and clouding that's acceptable combined with settings that still provide a quality picture then you've 'technically' found yourself a keeper. You will have certainly reduced any stress related return issues - if bought from a highstreet shop...

    Perhaps your backlight issue isn't as bad as you think as all of the presets have high backlight values - and these are one of the biggest causes of exacerbating torchlight, clouding and bleeding.
  30. orac1971

    orac1971 Member

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    Right photos - not great, but all I can see is the facing shot (2nd) theres some torchlighting or bleed or whatever its called! in the corners, but nothing like bluin's last panel.

    Side view:

    [​IMG]


    Facing:

    [​IMG]

    Source: Childrens BBC, Freesat (HUMAX)

    Settings: (same as HDTV settings pretty much)

    Movie
    backlight: 9
    contrast: 91
    brightness: 44
    sharpness: 30
    colour: 50
    blacktone: off
    dyn contrast: off
    shadow detail: +2
    Gamma: +2
    RGB: off
    colour space: auto
    white balance: 26 25 22 12 25 35
    flesh tone: 0
    edge enhancement: on
    motion lighting: off
    LED motion plus: off
    colour tone: warm2
    digital noise filter: off
    MPEG noise filter: off
    HDMI black level (greyed out)
    film mode: off

    Bluin - I reckon both your panels had problems and 2nd was even worse... hopefully third time lucky with John Lewis.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012

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