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2 Year Warranty as standard - EU Law

Discussion in 'Xbox 360 Hardware' started by salubrious_k, Feb 14, 2007.

  1. salubrious_k

    salubrious_k Member

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not a legal expert), but I've been doing a bit of research since I read a few comment regarding last night's Watchdog (which incidentally I didn't watch, so I hope I'm not repeating anything here).

    Anyway, it seems that according to some EU legislation published in 1999, since 2002 it has become a legal requirement that all consumer goods sold in the EU must have a minimum of a 2 year warranty.

    So from what I understand, if something breaks within 2 years and the retailer or manufacturer claim that there is only a 1 year warranty, you just need to quote Article 5 of the EU Product Warranty Directive (1999):

    If you fancy boring yourself to sleep or proving me wrong (which I admit could be the case), then you can read the whole directive here:
    http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/s...numdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=31999L0044&model=guichett

    So... am I right? Are we covered on our 360's for 2 years by EU law?
  2. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy Well-Known Member

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    I've been informed that this has not yet been adopted into UK law. It will be, but not yet.
  3. salubrious_k

    salubrious_k Member

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    Well that's a bit crap. Why is the UK so slow, it suggests that this had to be in place by 2002:

  4. salubrious_k

    salubrious_k Member

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    Hang on a minute...

    I've just found this:
    Source: http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-925594-6.pdf

    Now reading the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulation Act 2002 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm it doesn't make mention of a time period other than the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act, but surely if this new Act is the transposition of the 1999 EU Directive, that means that the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act must cover the minimum 2 year period required by the EU directive?
  5. Munkey Boy

    Munkey Boy Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, good research and interesting. I'll see what trading standards say about it later.
  6. SpaceGhost

    SpaceGhost Member

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    I'm sure i've read several times before that we in the UK are actually covered better than other countries in the EU (Such as Germany etc) already by the sales of goods act.

    If your 360 breaks after a year, you could quite reasonably say it wasn't fit for the purpose. Who would expect to pay £300+ for a console for it to break after a year? Not me.

    It might be hassle, but if mine breaks outside the warranty period i'll be kicking up a fuss!
  7. runam0k

    runam0k Member

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    I am not a consumer law expert so do not rely on anything I say below. :)

    The "reasonable amount of time" provision you mention is not relevant; it relates to the buyer ie the buyer must give the seller a reasonable time to repair or replace the goods.

    The 2 years thing is misleading. It refers to an absolute time limit for making a claim based on a contract. In the UK we have and will continue to have a limitation period of 6 years.

    Theoretically, you can take your 360 back within 6 years of purchasing it. However, legislation provides that after 6 months*, it's for the buyer to prove the goods were faulty at the time of purchase.

    It is my understanding that there is no set amount of time within which you can return goods without fear of having to argue with the seller. Rather a common law right to return exists during the reasonable amount of time you have to assess the goods before being taken to have "accepted" them. This period of time is determined primarily by the nature of the goods. Expensive electronic goods should reasonably operate without problems for at least 1 year, hence we have recourse in the first year. Most manufacturers include a 1 year warranty as a result.

    So essentially, little has changed.

    * This is new. Previously the burden of proof was always with the buyer!
  8. neilmcl

    neilmcl Member

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    The Sale of Goods Act has nothing whatsoever to do with a manufacturers warranty, or any relationship between consumer and manufacturer for that matter. Thanks for taking the time to look but its irrelevent when dealing with warranty periods, whether within the UK or EU.
  9. bouncer

    bouncer Active Member

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    I think ill be having a argument with microsoft later today =]
  10. bouncer

    bouncer Active Member

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    Just been on the phone with microsoft about when my warrrenty ends and its march 2007 (Funny that as I bought it on Decmeber 2nd 2005)

    Also asked about a extended warrenty and then argued about the warrenty with that artical for the cheeky person to cut me off
  11. L11

    L11 Member

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    The thing is that most retailers do not have the means or authority to address most of these intricate laws so you're pretty much wasting your time by arguing with staff in store. You're better off just writing to the retailer's customer services.
  12. Tezcatlipoca

    Tezcatlipoca Member

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    "The seller shall be held liable"

    The EU directive says seller - not manufacturer. Doesn't affect the "12 month manufacturer's warranty".

    Also, the 2 year period the EU thing gives is less than what we already have ("up to 6 years") under the Sale of Goods Act.
  13. sowie83

    sowie83 Member

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    I know it will never happen but i just wish some hot shot lawyer would get peed off and take them to court an win.

    Or everyone with a x360 or PS3 would donate £1 and pay for them to go to court. My PS3 died 1 week before the warrenty was up quite lucky but i know people who have had to pay the £150 to get a new one and they probably just reset the thing and ship it out to someone else.

    I just dont think that 1year is reasonable and im sure in microsoft & sony's mission statments and product objectives a 1 year product life is what they see as reasonable either. If you asked them im sure they would deny it and praise how reliable the products are.

    Sorry i havnt been any help on the legal side but its somthing that really fustraits me!

    rant over

    :lesson:
  14. shagaboopon

    shagaboopon Active Member

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    I'm not a lawyer and I'm not reading through the entire directive but I'd wager a small fee there is some small print about the liability being with the customer to prove a manufacturing defect and not one created by misuse. In a court of law if the burden of proof was with the customer it could cost thousands of pounds to have the equipment diagnosed. Its a safe bet you would be fine with a easy to prove systemic fault like the RROD but other less obvious faults would be very hard to win.

    Also I could be wrong (see what Trading Standards say) but I'm pretty sure this law isn't relevant to the UK. For the people questioning why we don't just take all the good laws form the EU they should consider some laws benefit consumers, others don't. Personally I think as consumers we get very good protection as it is.
  15. shagaboopon

    shagaboopon Active Member

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    To be fair to Sony you can actually just buy their extended warranty and wait a week to get it repaired out of warranty. They've been good in that regard so far...
  16. Big

    Big Member

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    But you didn't buy your Xbox from Microsoft. Your contract under law is with the shop that sold it to you so you need to take it up with them.
  17. webby2606

    webby2606 Guest

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    so quite simply, would i be able to get a refund or replacement for my £500 laptop which is just over 1 year old with a burnt out motherboard or not? thanks if any1 can help
  18. King Tones

    King Tones Well-Known Member

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    I heard about this at lunch on Radio 2.
    Some guy rang in and said that he had a TV fail after 18 months and returned it to Tesco and got a replacement after stating the EU Law for 2 years as standard on Warranty.

    Anyone know more ?

    Deftones
  19. Azzin

    Azzin Well-Known Member

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    Yes-me! :devil:

    It was in this Saturday's Guardian,

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/may/23/tesco-consumer-guarantee
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. RottenFox

    RottenFox Moderator

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    so it looks like he got it replaced with the sale of goods act, as they have taken some difference(£120) or thereabouts off his settlement(replacement tv).
    what they did do is replace his aerial, and replace his tv, at about £9 less than the total he paid..bargain..i dont think so...
    the 2 year pan european warranty is still not uk law, so you cant rely on that, at the moment, the sale of goods act covers you just as well, and for longer.
  21. jacko5

    jacko5 Member

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    Surely the EC Directive 1994/44/EC is law in the UK and it gives you the right of repair, replacement or refund up to 2 years.
    The trouble with the SOGA is that whilst 6 years sounds very nice, the onus is on the buyer to prove that the goods are faulty, other than by wear and tear or accident and you might have to prove this in a court of law.
    The 2 year EU warranty period is much more cut and dried. It's just that most retailers are not aware of it and you may have to stand your ground to get your rights, as per the guy with Tescos.
  22. Azzin

    Azzin Well-Known Member

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  23. RottenFox

    RottenFox Moderator

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    no, not as per the guy in tesco's, as he has had obviously a chunk taken off his tv price for prior use, as per the sale of goods act, and as he has said himself, a like for like would cost him another £120, making up the £400 he originally spent on the tv.
    the EU directive is still not in place with uk consumer law.
    you can try, and maybe you will get somewhere, but its still not standard.
  24. paul-av-tech

    paul-av-tech Member

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    As one of the poor sods on the front line, I wish the EU would try putting in place some legislation to protect the retailer! I see people complaining in this thread and being told that they need to get back to the retailer..Correct - BUT- Its not (always) their fault! You want cheap products - fine - I do too... But be warned - corners WILL be cut. Then, when they fail 18 months down the line it is the retailler who is being threatened with legal action. A retailler in this situation may replace it - at their loss, then they end up with a defective product and may end up writing it off. Or they may refuse, dont start ranting and raving, if you have a genuine grievance work with the retailler AND the manufacturer. We have coutless battles getting items LESS than a year old returned to wholesalers and manufacturers for credit - WE have no rights in this respect, they simply become our property when we buy them, yet when we sell them on - we are held accoutable.

    With legislation to protect the retailer manufacturers would have to improve quality control and design.. But it WILL end up costing the end buyer. I am old enough to remember when a colour TV was the cost of the family Morris Minor car, now its less than a weeks wages for some people - the TV that is :)
  25. Supersonic72

    Supersonic72 Member

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    The KEY word in your first line says everything.

    Its an EU Directive, not Law, and don't confuse the words in the same sentence to mean the same thing..It doesnt'

    This whole thread is just hot air with too many desktop lawyers not understanding what an EU Directive is.

    When UK Parliament updates the SOGA to reflect the directive, -THEN- we'll all have some fun.

    Dont hold your breath though....
  26. MarkusThatch

    MarkusThatch Active Member

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    So if it's "just" a directive does that mean retailers can choose to ignore it? If so, then why did tesco cave in to the technika tv purchaser?

    Also, the EU site says:

    So the directive is law then, desktop lawyer or no that language is pretty unambiguous.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2009
  27. RottenFox

    RottenFox Moderator

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    yep, they can ignore it.
    its not uk law, the uk hasnt brought it in yet, and on several occasions they have put it off.

    and tesco never caved in..if you read up on it, he got a lesser value tv(obviously reduced the refund by a percentage from how much use he had had, ala sale of goods act, if he wanted the same tv, he had to stump up £120 extra, all tesco did was give him an aerial upgrade, which i doubt cost less than they state..).

    certain parts of it are included in the sale of goods act, such as the time period far exceeds the EU directive, amongst others.
    but it isnt law, and it wont be for a while, as it keeps getting put on the back burner.
    even companies that sell goods over here still usually stick to the 12 months warranty, only a few do 2 years, as of now.
  28. MarkusThatch

    MarkusThatch Active Member

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    Threatening to eject someone, referring to the police and then actually dealing with the customer sounds like a cave in to me.
  29. RottenFox

    RottenFox Moderator

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    but it wasnt tesco who called the police, it was the security guard, and the deal he got wasnt a great one, more in line with sale of goods and like i say, a percentage of the price knocked off, due to the time he had it.
    and i would say tesco's staff werent knowledgable in this area as it ISN'T incorporated into UK consumer law yet, so isnt applicable, to be honest.

    and how many stores have customers they would throw out, then they come to a deal or offer, before it gets ugly.
    a real deal or use of a 2 year warranty would have been a tv of equal cost, and maybe something on top, not what he got.
  30. chenko

    chenko Member

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    I hope you all don't mind me bringing this up.

    If Sales of Goods Act covers you up to 6 years, and you have to prove it... what if the manufacturer give you say 5 years warranty (and you have to ship it to them abroad etc), isn't the fact that the manufacturer gives a 5 year warranty, says that it should last 5 years... hence the retailer should replace it within that period under the related Act?

    AND

    If a EU Directive says that 2 years should be adhered to, isn't that further "proof" for the Sales of Goods Act to show that should also cover up to 2 years?
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2009

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