[durera]

The Injury Room : 2007/2008
This association is more than just a "bunch of matches", to add some interactivity to the mix a number of features will complement the games themselves.

First of which is a very basic simulation of injuries throughout the season. Although we discussed keeping track of injuries that are picked up in actual gameplay I think that is a bit ambitious to start with, so here is how it will work:

Before the beginning of each month 1 random player from each club's default starting 11 will be injured for the duration of the month. Any league fixtures you play during that month must be played without that player.

You may get lucky and have your lame duck left back injured for most of the season, or you may have angered the football Gods in a past life and your star striker may sit out most of the season on the treatment table.

The injury gamble
If your star player is injured and you really don't want to lose him for that months fixtures you do have one option. The gamble, if you choose to gamble then your injured player will be returned to the squad fit and raring to go, but you will incur two new injury "rolls" ... your odds (as best as I can calculate):

• 18% chance same player gets injured anyway
• 8% chance only one different player is injured
• 74% chance two different players are injured
• 8% chance the same player and another player are injured

The punishment for fielding an illegible player:
1st offense: 1 point deduction, first warning
2nd offense: 1 point deduction, second warning
3rd offense: 3 points deduction, final warning
4th offense: 10 points deduction
further offenses: 3 points deduction each

Now there is no way for myself, or bailster to monitor whether you have broken the rules. This league is based on mutual trust and fair play. I am assuming that any offenses will be mistakes rather than deliberate, and I expect that when they do happen you will own up to them.

Bailster has kindly offered to help run the injury room for this season, he will be creating a spreadsheet containing the names of the starting 11 of each team. Each month we will post the names of 1 player from each team who is injured for that month (selected randomly by a script from this spreadsheet).

It will be your responsibility to ensure you know which player (players if you gambled) is injured that month, and to not pick him for your team. If you make a mistake you are expected to own up to it and take the 1 point penalty. It is also a good idea to know which player on your opponents teamis injured so that you can check they do not field that player.

Although allowing your opponent to incur a 1 point penalty may seem like a good idea, I hope everyone will be honest enough to point out to their opponent that they've got an illegible player in their lineup if they notice.

I advise you to subscribe to this thread so that you recieve notification when new posts are made.

[lisbonlion]

i dont believe a 1 point deduction is enough, they shold also forfeit the game in which the player played

[Stormy78]

One quick point... if players can play more than their alloted games in a month e.g. they have 4 scheduled but end up playing 8, 4 in advance of the schedule, whats to stop a player squeezing in as many games as poss when its their lame left back out and not their star striker?

[kopchoir]

i am not so sure on this i think its a good idea and will be a nice addition but i think its a bit to much imho but as always ill go with the flow


im really eager to get some friendlies in anyone fancy a few games if its laggy can always give it a miss

[boingboing]

How do you decide which player is injured?

and

How do decide the two injury "rolls"?

[mehogie1]

Seems overcomplicated imo keeping it simple will keep people playing.

[durera]

Originally Posted by Stormy78

One quick point... if players can play more than their alloted games in a month e.g. they have 4 scheduled but end up playing 8, 4 in advance of the schedule, whats to stop a player squeezing in as many games as poss when its their lame left back out and not their star striker?

Nothing really. We'll be trying to stick to the schedule as much as possible so that the league table each month is meaningful. It's just something to add some depth to the competition beyond the matches themselves. I don't want teams to either fall behind or get ahead of their fixtures too much so that we've all played a similar number of matches at any given point in time.

[durera]

Originally Posted by boingboing

How do you decide which player is injured?

and

How do decide the two injury "rolls"?

I write software for a living ... it'll be a 10 minute job to write something that does all this for us once Bailster has the data in the spreadsheet. The two injury rolls work exactly the same as the first .. it'll randomly pick 1 player form the 11 .. then pick 1 player from the 11 a second time (which is how you get a small chance that only 1 player will get injured as the same player could come up twice).

[durera]

Originally Posted by lisbonlion

i dont believe a 1 point deduction is enough, they shold also forfeit the game in which the player played

I want to keep the penalty light really. It should be enough to make people want to stick to the rules .. but at the same time not a huge weight so that someone would own up to a mistake if they did field the injured player.

[durera]

Originally Posted by mehogie1

Seems overcomplicated imo keeping it simple will keep people playing.

I'm hoping that bringing something extra to the league fixtures that you won't get in normal games is what will keep people playing. It really isn't that complicated from your point of view.

It'll be a simple case of remembering that in Jan you can't play Joe Bloggs. The gamble thing is completely optional and I added it mainly as a last resort for those that really wouldn't want to play without a certain player in their team. All the complexity will be handled by yours truly and Bailster.

[mehogie1]

Great stuff, so glad I squeezed in!

[SuperSportBilly]

I agree that the penalty should be the loss of the game. So if the person loses anyway then no deduction but if they win they lose the game - ie they lose the 3 points (gained illegaly) and the opponent gets them. This is what would happen in the real world isn`t it ?

We are not playing too many games in any month so it is not that hard to check your own ineligible players and that of your opponent for that week / month. It will all be in the same thread anyway.

A 1 point deduction is not severe enough imo - the view may be that it`s better to play with a star striker and maybe lose a point ?

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by SuperSportBilly

A 1 point deduction is not severe enough imo - the view may be that it`s better to play with a star striker and maybe lose a point ?

Well, only if you think the participants are that cynical! The idea is that it'd be a genuine mistake, in which case a point is about right. Perhaps a second/third offence could be proportionately more harsh...?

[SuperSportBilly]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

Well, only if you think the participants are that cynical! The idea is that it'd be a genuine mistake, in which case a point is about right. Perhaps a second/third offence could be proportionately more harsh...?

That`s me - Harsh but Fair

[durera]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

Well, only if you think the participants are that cynical! The idea is that it'd be a genuine mistake, in which case a point is about right. Perhaps a second/third offence could be proportionately more harsh...?

Sounds good to me.

1st offense: 1 point deduction, first warning
2nd offense: 1 point deduction, second warning
3rd offense: 3 points deduction, final warning
4th offense: 10 points deduction (sorry, but that is getting beyond the joke)
further offenses: 3 points deduction each

I think the punishment needs to be independant of the result of the game in question. It's no better to break the rules and lose than break the rules and win, so the punishments should be the same, which is why I'm not in favour of forfeiting (you could be punished by nothing if you lose anyway).

[Munkey Boy]

Deducation - it's like an education with an extra D! (I assume you mean deduction? )

[boingboing]

Seems fair to me.

[kopchoir]

still far to in depth imo and then giving out point deductions, when i play my games i wont be looking at other peoples team to see if they are playing their injured player, i will be doing it on trust i like the idea durera and you say you can implememt it easily so thats good,imo its going to be a hinder and not everyone is playing on a level field as it is with the team selections.

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

still far to in depth imo and then giving out point deductions, when i play my games i wont be looking at other peoples team to see if they are playing their injured player, i will be doing it on trust i like the idea durera and you say you can implememt it easily so thats good,imo its going to be a hinder and not everyone is playing on a level field as it is with the team selections.

was i just talking to the wall with this post

[durera]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

was i just talking to the wall with this post

Sorry missed that post with everything else that's going on ...

Originally Posted by kopchoir

still far to in depth imo and then giving out point deductions ...

I could further simplify it by tieing the injuries to the fixture periods instead; that way each injury is fixed to a set of matches rather than a date. This has a couple of advantages:

• You can't avoid an injury by delaying your fixtures til the next month, as if the player is set as injured for a fixture in period 2, then whenever you play that fixture you play it without him
• Only 5 periods in the season, so less injuries for each player to track.

Originally Posted by kopchoir

when i play my games i wont be looking at other peoples team to see if they are playing their injured player, i will be doing it on trust i like the idea durera and you say you can implememt it easily so thats good,imo its going to be a hinder and not everyone is playing on a level field as it is with the team selections.

Fair enough. I think it'll definitely add something to the competition and is worth any extra hassle. As you say it'll only work if people are honest, but I beleive everyone here will be honest enough to admit to any mistakes and take the point penalty. When you look up your fixtures on the forum each week they'll be listed alongside the injured players in the division, so it should be easy to keep track of who your injured player is and who is out for your next opponent.

Unless anyone has major objections to tieing the injuries to the fixture periods rather than individual months I'll implement it that way. I'll see how bailster is getting on with the player database and try to have the first periods' injuries announced this weekend.

[durera]

A huge thanks to Bailster for providing the data .. here's the randomly selected injury list for fixture period 1 (the number shown is the random number that was generated for your team that selected the player listed -- remember only the default starting 11 are in the pool for injuries):

Division 1
Liverpool: 9: Riise
AC Milan: 2: Nesta
Man United: 10: Giggs
Chelsea: 6: Essien
Real Madrid: 8: Raul
Arsenal: 1: Lehmann
Newcastle: 3: Rozenhal
Valencia: 3: Ivan Helguera
Manchester City: 2: Dunne
Juventus: 4: Birindelli
West Ham: 6: Bowyer
Roma: 9: Mancini

Division 2:
Bayern Munich: 9: Schweinsteiger
Ajax: 2: Hettinga
At. Madrid: 10: Aguero
Villareal: 6: Mavuba
Real Zaragoza: 8: D'Alessandro
Sevilla: 1: A. Palop
Marseille: 3: Givet
Fiorentina: 3: Gamberini
Tottenham: 2: Kaboul

I'll post up a thread for anyone what wishes to gamble on their injury -- if you do then your injured player will be returned to fitness, but two new random injuries will be calculated for your team (so you could lose the same player anyway, but you've an 80% chance that he will avoid an injury even if that means losing two other players to injury).

You'll have 2 days to opt for the gamble, after which point the chance will be lost.

[Munkey Boy]

Can I just clarify: the injuries only come only from the default starting 11 as opposed to the full squad right? Lost my defensive rock, the Dunniemonster

[durera]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

Can I just clarify: the injuries only come only from the default starting 11 as opposed to the full squad right?

Yes, only the first 11 players (as default in PES 2008) are in the programatical "hat" as it were.

If you gamble the same 11 players will be in the mix again for both the first and second "draw" .. which means it is possible to have only one player injured if you gamble and the same player is drawn both times.

The important part of the Draw code for anyone interested in how it's run ... (for division 1, Division 2 is the same, but with a different limit on $i)

srand(time() ^($$ + ($$ <<15)));

for (my $i = 1; $i < 13; $i++) {
	$query = "select * from players where teamID=$i";
	!$db->Sql($query) or die "couldn't do $query because ", $db->Error(), "\n";
  my %Data;
	my $player = ceil(rand(11));
	for ($j = 0; $j < $player; $j++) {
		$db->FetchRow();
		%Data = $db->DataHash();
	}
 	print "$teams{$i}: $player: ".$Data{"surname"}."\n";
}

[boingboing]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

Can I just clarify: the injuries only come only from the default starting 11 as opposed to the full squad right? Lost my defensive rock, the Dunniemonster

Time to gamble mate?

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by boingboing

Time to gamble mate?

I don't know, I could lose Elano - the only player that could save me from relegation!

[durera]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

I don't know, I could lose Elano - the only player that could save me from relegation!

But look on the bright side, you could lose Rolando "Can't hit a barn door" Bianchi instead :D

[boingboing]

Sorry to be a pain.

Was is it decided whether it would be a set number of games or monthly injury periods?

[boingboing]

ooops! Just decided to use those things either side of my nose! It does say in the post above "Unless anyone has major objections to tieing the injuries to the fixture periods rather than individual months I'll implement it that way"

This injury thing has grown on me. I'm in a real dilema, in the official guide book Heittinga is in the list of the Top 20 Wing Backs and with Emanuelson, Davids & Stam is one of my best players. Ohhh the agony