The future of Xbox 360 - what does it hold?

[Codehead]

Originally Posted by mattclarkie

You go on about being able to play all your old games. But unless you include proper BC every game needs to be re-written. I don't see that happening for just £5 a shot. The only reason PS1 games are on the PS3 is because it actually contains a complete PS1 via hardware and software, but it can't do PS2 games can it, well not the current models.

I thought the early PS3s had hardware PS2 emulation? Although it was removed in the UK model to cut costs.

The PS2 had PS1 emulation, not sure if it was hardware or software though.

[edit]
Hmm, some do, some don't, full specs here: Playstation 3 Backwards Compatibility Demystified

[mattclarkie]

Originally Posted by Codehead

I thought the early PS3s had hardware PS2 emulation? Although it was removed in the UK model to cut costs.

The PS2 had PS1 emulation, not sure if it was hardware or software though.

[edit]
Hmm, some do, some don't, full specs here: Playstation 3 Backwards Compatibility Demystified

The PS2 had a full PS1 in it.

The launch PS3 had the emotion engine and software to give PS2, but the UK just had software.

This was ditched when the 40GB was launched and no PS3 produced today has any form of PS2 BC.

So Sony don't seem to see any advantage in it, and conisdering the PS2 is the biggest console seller in history and has sold the most games ever to completely remove BC for it probably is a mistake.

MS also ditched BC very quickly, the 360 was planned to be BC for practically every Xbox game, but that didn't last, and 90% of BC titles suffer issues from minor framerate to complete loss of sound and graphics in certain games.

[AdsterUK]

I may be alone, but I have no interest in playing last gen games on this gen of console. the only old games I have any real attachment to are really old 80's games and even with those they last about 2 mins in an emulator before I realise that my expectations of a game have completely changed. If backwards compatibility restricts the design and function or raises the price of a console I'll happily live without it.

[mattclarkie]

Originally Posted by AdsterUK

I may be alone, but I have no interest in playing last gen games on this gen of console. the only old games I have any real attachment to are really old 80's games and even with those they last about 2 mins in an emulator before I realise that my expectations of a game have completely changed. If backwards compatibility restricts the design and function or raises the price of a console I'll happily live without it.

One of my best 360 experiences was replaying Halo: CE.

[sibeer]

My perfect next gen system will turn up between 2011-2012 and have the following:

Blu-Ray (cheap enough to be a no brainer by then)
Decent battery included with pads
Upgraded GPU to handle better textures, more effect, 1080P and physics
6-8 Core CPU, preferably Intel or AMD based to keep closer to PC's
Gigabit ethernet
Wireless-N for conveniance
SSD Drive for game / OS installation (approx 32GB)
Cheap ways of adding storage for games and media (proper support of USB, network and SATA drives as storage for anything)
DTS-HD Master
The option of motion sensing games and standard USB/bluetooth controllers (cross system compatability before my house explodes with pads, wheels, guitars, balance boards, etc)

This gen has seen the exclusive market shrink as developers struggle to make a profit on ever more expensive to produce games. If we want games to keep on getting more impressive we need to have a convergence on a more standard set of specs. I know it is going down the PC route, but if you could keep it with the lifespan, dependability and simplicity of consoles that would be ace.

[sibeer]

Oh and with regards downloading games, DRM, etc, I really don't think the world market will be ready for it by then. What I would like to see arrive as soon as the networks can handle it is live streaming games. Napster and Sonos have really made my day to day music habits so much more convenient and simpler, imagine a similar deal with games. I would happily pay £30 / month unlimited access to games with revenue split out via hourly usage by MS. This is the same as me buying the game a month I already buy, but ensures the devs get revenue fitting for the quality and longevity of the game they produce. You could support this with a range of individual game rental options for those who don't want to be tied down and outright purchases for games people know they want for good.

[sibeer]

Originally Posted by mattclarkie

The PS2 had a full PS1 in it.

The launch PS3 had the emotion engine and software to give PS2, but the UK just had software.

This was ditched when the 40GB was launched and no PS3 produced today has any form of PS2 BC.

The NTSC launch ones had an emotion engine and the PS2 GPU (Graphics Synthesiser or some equally silly name) in them, the PAL launch ones only had the PS2 GPU in them and used software to emulate the Emotion Engine. The ones now don't have either as they cost money that they need to shave off to stay in the race.

The 360 was better placed to emulate previous gen games as both systems are basically PC's so the game just needs to figure out how to get similar performance from the upgraded hardware (P3 700Mhz to IBM 3.2Ghz and Nvidia GF2/4 MX to ATI R600). It is the lack of consumer demand and interest in playing most Xbox games on their 360 that has stopped investment in it.

[Codehead]

Originally Posted by sibeer

The option of motion sensing games and standard USB/bluetooth controllers (cross system compatability before my house explodes with pads, wheels, guitars, balance boards, etc)

That's a good one. Although the 360s guide button, the Wii's Home button and whatever the PS3 has do very different things.

A standardised Guitar Hero controller for example would be great for the producers (reduced development/manufacture costs) but making it work in a uniform way across 3 consoles and possibly the PC too would be tricky.

[SteveU30]

Originally Posted by sibeer

My perfect next gen system will turn up between 2011-2012 and have the following:

Blu-Ray (cheap enough to be a no brainer by then)
Decent battery included with pads
Upgraded GPU to handle better textures, more effect, 1080P and physics
6-8 Core CPU, preferably Intel or AMD based to keep closer to PC's
Gigabit ethernet
Wireless-N for conveniance
SSD Drive for game / OS installation (approx 32GB)
Cheap ways of adding storage for games and media (proper support of USB, network and SATA drives as storage for anything)
DTS-HD Master
The option of motion sensing games and standard USB/bluetooth controllers (cross system compatability before my house explodes with pads, wheels, guitars, balance boards, etc)

This gen has seen the exclusive market shrink as developers struggle to make a profit on ever more expensive to produce games. If we want games to keep on getting more impressive we need to have a convergence on a more standard set of specs. I know it is going down the PC route, but if you could keep it with the lifespan, dependability and simplicity of consoles that would be ace.

Yep, totally agree with that - would be my ideal system too!!

Originally Posted by sibeer

Oh and with regards downloading games, DRM, etc, I really don't think the world market will be ready for it by then. What I would like to see arrive as soon as the networks can handle it is live streaming games. Napster and Sonos have really made my day to day music habits so much more convenient and simpler, imagine a similar deal with games. I would happily pay £30 / month unlimited access to games with revenue split out via hourly usage by MS. This is the same as me buying the game a month I already buy, but ensures the devs get revenue fitting for the quality and longevity of the game they produce. You could support this with a range of individual game rental options for those who don't want to be tied down and outright purchases for games people know they want for good.

Maybe not for 2011-12 but the next gen will have to run to approx 2018 so they will deffo need to be able to cope with live streaming, 30GB game downloads etc

Don't forget that a lot of countries already have stupidly fast internet, it is mainly the UK that is still on slower broadband but even we are catching up now!!

Originally Posted by sibeer

The 360 was better placed to emulate previous gen games as both systems are basically PC's so the game just needs to figure out how to get similar performance from the upgraded hardware (P3 700Mhz to IBM 3.2Ghz and Nvidia GF2/4 MX to ATI R600). It is the lack of consumer demand and interest in playing most Xbox games on their 360 that has stopped investment in it.

Agree with this too, most people aren't interested in playing previous gen games on a current gen console (apart from the odd classic like Halo as mentioned by matt). This will always result in the 'what sells' decision as made by all 'for-profit' companies.

[Stream62]

Interesting debate...

I don't think that the new xbox will be that much different from the current one. Yes there will be options for better graphics, more features, blueray and better live access.
But they will have to make it accessibe to the 'lower' end of the market. By lower I mean those people without really fast broadband or really up to date tellies.

Which will mean that there will still be discs as well as downloads and that some of the more interesting developments just won't happen yet. 2011-2012 is too soon for big differences 2015 maybe but not 2011.

[sibeer]

Originally Posted by Codehead

That's a good one. Although the 360s guide button, the Wii's Home button and whatever the PS3 has do very different things.

A standardised Guitar Hero controller for example would be great for the producers (reduced development/manufacture costs) but making it work in a uniform way across 3 consoles and possibly the PC too would be tricky.

The Guide, Home and PS buttons all actually do very similar things, normally a way back to the system from any other operation. The main point is the PS3 and 360 have a similar enough set of buttons that games tend to use the same layout on both systems. As the developers have normally already got it working with both systems, it would be easy to get it to change the control layout to suit the connected controller rather than just emulating the set one. Again we are verging on PC territory, but I don't want to see a button mapping application or those little analogue hat indicators on my console ever

Custom game controllers should be a complete no brainier as they all just have the necessary game controls. Mic's are mic's, buzzers seem to be 4 buttons and a buzzer, guitars from guitar hero 2 are fine on world tour, why do we keep on getting shoveled different versions. I would happily have bought Lips for £20 if I could use my Singstar Mics, I would buy Buzz for PS3 if I could use the nice wireless buzzers I have from Scene It. I wouldn't feel that all my guitar games HAD to be on my 360 if my guitar would work with the Wii or the PS3. The worst of the bunch though is steering wheels. These things can cost over £100 for a good one so why not make it work with all three and PC.

[AdsterUK]

Its very unlikely that we'll ever see cross compatible controllers, certainly not first party ones. When I looked into selling console stuff for a living I found that accessories are where the likes of MS and Sony make a good chunk of their money.

[Tequila Sunset]

i really think the 360 is on its last legs.

i havent touched it since ive had my ps3, which im addicted to wipeout HD, LBP, and cant wait for killzone 2.

also got me addicted to buying blu-rays.

only time i play my 360 is when i play pro evo round my mates houses. only thing im looking forward to is GTA 4 DLC.

The new xbox must include these imo:

-Free online gaming!
-Blu-ray player!
-1000 times quiter!
-full 1080p games!
-7.1, true hd sound, dts HD etc
-Console in black!
-built in wi-fi
-loads more usb ports!
-built in full backwards compatiblity.

[sibeer]

Originally Posted by Tequila Sunset

-Free online gaming!
-1000 times quiter!
-Console in black!

Forgot these of my list

[Tequila Sunset]

oh and i also dont like which is on ps3 and xbox......

50gb, 80gb, 103gb bc only, 74.8gb with free bag of chips etc.

why cant they just have one standard size with BC! for x amount.

took me about 3 weeks to work out which ones best on the ps3 and xbox.

if you want more memory then sell it as an accessory.

also.....

keep the exact same controller in black and get rid of the batteries, i love the current one.