[Lurking Lawyer]

Originally Posted by GAZBEROTTEN

I prey Microsoft do this. Will then wake people up about how bad Microsoft are

It has very little to do with MS - it's driven by the software publishers and distributors.

Still, don't let that stand in the way of a blinkered rant, eh?

[m1ket]

This same rumour was going around about the ps3 and what happened there

Its like 2005 again http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6236637.html lol

[DJSigma]

Originally Posted by GAZBEROTTEN

I prey Microsoft do this. Will then wake people up about how bad Microsoft are

You'd love it! It would mean that you could post some unfocused and lengthy rants where you get most of the facts wrong and contradict yourself. That's probably why you're "preying" that this will happen.

[majnu]

lol

[Bamford38]

Heres an article with a dev talking about the situation with used games.
But he just comes across as someone who really couldnt care less about the gamers and we will just have to "learn to live with it"

Xbox News: Xbox 720 pre-owned games block 'would be fantastic,' says dev - ComputerAndVideoGames.com

Its worth noting that the last game he made was Red Faction Armageddon, so hes probably just annoyed that it only sold about 3 copies.

P.S. DJSigma, that last comment made me laugh a lot!

[GAZBEROTTEN]

Originally Posted by Bamford38

Yeah, this can only be good for the consumers!!



(that was sarcasm by the way)

The consumers of the Xbox brand need to realise that xbox 720 could have a major issue mimiking the RROD. Could be software or hardware but it will have problems. Don't expect Microsoft to release this machine without it breaking or having issues. I certainly dont trust them not after going threw 6 Xbox 360's and painfull long repair waits.

Am i saying dont buy one no im just asking people to be vigilant when the Xbox 720 hits and to see how it goes. See i do have a heart after all

[Bamford38]

Originally Posted by GAZBEROTTEN

The consumers of the Xbox brand need to realise that xbox 720 could have a major issue mimiking the RROD. Could be software or hardware but it will have problems. Don't expect Microsoft to release this machine without it breaking or having issues. I certainly dont trust them not after going threw 6 Xbox 360's and painfull long repair waits.

Am i saying dont buy one no im just asking people to be vigilant when the Xbox 720 hits and to see how it goes. See i do have a heart after all

Theres me thinking the title of this thread was "The next xbox might not play used games!"
When apparently its "Reasons the next xbox will fail and why microsoft is rubbish"

Thanks for clearing that up

[rcaudwell]

Just don`t see them doing this tbh, there`s just no need. They can do their online pass/added content, even having bits of a game missing without the "code" and have a second revenue stream from 2nd hand games. Everything will eventually go download only anyway (I don`t think this will be for the next gen consoles, but very likely the one after that - look at what`s happening to cd sales) so it won`t be an issue then. I also don`t think Sony would do it if MS did - they`d capitalise on MS and sell their console as the one you can still rent/buy second hand for.
It`d also drive the hacking community as it will give them what they consider a "legitimate" reason to hack the console, bringing with it piracy etc. Much like what happened when Sony removed the OtherOS from the PS3.

[GAZBEROTTEN]

Originally Posted by rcaudwell

Just don`t see them doing this tbh, there`s just no need. They can do their online pass/added content, even having bits of a game missing without the "code" and have a second revenue stream from 2nd hand games. Everything will eventually go download only anyway (I don`t think this will be for the next gen consoles, but very likely the one after that - look at what`s happening to cd sales) so it won`t be an issue then. I also don`t think Sony would do it if MS did - they`d capitalise on MS and sell their console as the one you can still rent/buy second hand for.
It`d also drive the hacking community as it will give them what they consider a "legitimate" reason to hack the console, bringing with it piracy etc. Much like what happened when Sony removed the OtherOS from the PS3.

Well not everybody is online with there consoles. The PSN fiasco for instance being hacked don't think anyone will trust there accounts safety with any consoles to be honnest now.

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by GAZBEROTTEN

Well not everybody is online with there consoles. The PSN fiasco for instance being hacked don't think anyone will trust there accounts safety with any consoles to be honnest now.

Gaz - there's a theory that the cleanest restaurants in town are those just opened after being shut down after environmental health scares. It makes sense - people learn from their mistakes.

It makes sense to think that MS won't make the same reliability errors and PSN (or SEN as its now known) won't get hacked again. Mistakes that don't kill you make you stronger, not weaker.

[rcaudwell]

Originally Posted by GAZBEROTTEN

Well not everybody is online with there consoles. The PSN fiasco for instance being hacked don't think anyone will trust there accounts safety with any consoles to be honnest now.

I agree, and I`d be very suprised if the next gen consoles (Xbox 720, PS4) didn`t take optical media, but the gen after that I`d be equally surprised if they weren`t download only. Availability of broadband is now, and will by then be so high that anyone with the cash and techniological interest to want a new games console will have a connection (of course there will be a few exceptions to this), and by then I`d imagine a good percentage of music and a bit later probably film will be bought through legal downloads or streamed.
My kids (9 & 13) wouldn`t dream of buying a cd, they just download tracks they like off iTunes, they just don`t have the attachment to physical media that we have, and that seems to be the way things are going.

Once things go download only you will have little choice but to trust the safety of your account, it`ll be that or not have the console or buy any games.

[bionicrodent]

Devs complain about Piracy and second hand game market. They want your money. They want to develop new exciting titles for the next generation console. The problem is that the full potential of this generation is only now being realised.

Low def or high def a turd is still a turd.

I dont think MS will impose any restrictions on its new console. I hope they keep the controller the same too. I dont want any touchpads either !!

[Dinky Dragon]

The more I think about this the less I care for it. It will be Blu Ray for sure and its not the easiest media to pirate in comparison to others.

It will save me £15 per month on rentals and with the devs/publishers getting more money we may see better quality games.

Hell, the price of the actual games may decrease just a little too, to even out the market. The next gen of consoles I think will be safer against piracy also, thanks to Blu Ray or and unknown new format.

There will always be hackers, its our nature. With the next gen it will be harder though and the argument that "piracy will increase as people look for alternatives" is plain ridiculous.

Believe it or not, hardcore gamers like ourselves make up a tiny amount of the overall gaming scene and within us an even smaller percentage of us hack ect.

[GAZBEROTTEN]

So whats the specs for the 720 going to be then

[Dinky Dragon]

Shut up Gaz, go troll somewhere else.

Ill say it nicely because I think I speak for everyone else but everytime you post my skin crawls. You bring nothing but bad energy to this place.

For someone who apparently sticks up for people being bullied, according to your sig, you sure **** that karma right up everytime you open your mouth on here.

In fact just reading through that ridiculous thread its very clear you just spread a stink wherever you go.

/Rant Over

From now on Ill be reporting any ridiculous thread you post in this board, Im bored to the bones of checking this place and coming away in a bad mood. Ive worked with someone like you and it was pure agony to my mind.

I just hope this is just some keyboard bravado because if you are like this for real... Jeeeez.

On topic, there are countless posts on the specs of the 720. Nobody knows.

[Milamb]

They couldn't do this. I, like many many others have a pile of games unplayed that are second hand. Would I get a refund for those games? Will never happen.

[GokuSS4]

Originally Posted by Bamford38

I was just reading this artice

Xbox News: Xbox 720 'will support Blu-ray, might not play used games' - report - ComputerAndVideoGames.com

I think this can surely only harm the market more than it will help it.

I dont know about you guys, but i do buy a lot of second hand games. I also buy a hell of a lot of new games, but only games im excited about.

The games i buy second hand are generally games that i would never have given a go if they were full price, either through bad word of mouth, bad reviews, lack of knowledge, etc.
But if i end up enjoying them i will still buy DLC, the network pass and the eventual sequel.

If there were no second hand games i would have never tried these games, so the company has lost a potential customer forever.

Ive got a feeling there will be a lot of like-minded people on the subject.

So, what do you guys think?
If there are no more used games how much will it impact the amount of games you buy?

I personally dont believe this, if Microsoft removed 1gb of security data to free up space on DVD's to give developers more room then Microsoft could have easily put 10mb worth of data on current discs to stop used games.

Not sure why people have started this rumour, since Microsoft has not shot down this rumour all I can see is that they are seeing how people react...And of course the reaction is not good.

I personally dont see this ever happening if it does then prices of games should come down.

Lots of gamers like selling older games, not everyone wants to horde games and have a huge collection and in most cases the money is then put towards getting another game or hardware. It will be a huge mistake of a marketing strategy to go down this road.

In fact it will probably kill the Xbox brand and Sony will use this to their advantage, Sony will only need to say this in 1 advert:

PS4 - The only console that lets you play used games.

[Cloysterpeteuk]

Originally Posted by Germinator

A smaller controller, this is why I don't play my PS3. I want the controller to be the exact same as the 360, why change it. The way MS are going on about utter **** like Kinect I don't see it shipping with a controller.

I don't believe this thing about not playing 2nd hand copies as I see more online passes being required for online gaming in order to make money from 2nd hand game sales. I don't think lovefilm, game etc would be happy about this.

I would love a smaller and lighter pad, I can't comfortably reach the Y button now with my thumb. I also hope they change some of the other dumb decisions, like integrate the battery inside the unit and make a true wireless model - no cable for the mic going into the pad!. Basically make it how a ps3 pad is but keep the 360 triggers.

Really though I never understand why they don't make two or three different designs, I'm an average sized guy (around 6 foot) but I have kids hands and I'm built like a rake so these big and heavy pads are annoying for me, they could even have models with more buttons (I would like one with buttons instead of dpad) if the develops would allow you to map actions to specific buttons in every game.

[Cloysterpeteuk]

Most of my games are second hand but as long as they still let retailers set there own pricing for games I don't mind too much, most I've paid for a game this recently is the £20 for Skyrim, I bought Deus Ex & LA Noire for a tenna a piece, all brand new. Dead Island is £14.99 now, hopefully that'll be £10 soon.

Sure it sucks having to wait months to play a game you've been waiting for, but it's either buy at release and then only be able to afford to buy a couple of games a year, or wait till there a tenna and be able to buy them all.

This works great for most games I play but it falls to pieces when it's a big multiplayer online game as often by the time I've bought it everyone on my friends list is sick of it.

[Satantango]

In other news Ford have announced they have lobbied congress to prevent second hand sales of all their vehicles as they don't receive any income from it, this is also being backed by a number of other industries including film studios who are seeking the prevention of secondary trade DVDs, Dell computers have complained of a multi billion dollar loss potential through selfish and irresponsible people who sell their laptops to others. Multiple book publishers are demanding all books should be incinerated onced finished with and fashion houses in Europe are demanding the closure of all charity shops unless an agreement can be reached of sharing the income.

(actually, I'm not far wrong if the rumours of the ACTA agreement are true).

And wouldn't an xbox that prevents second hand game playing only encourage more people to hack their console.

[Pistachio]

Its a tricky one - realistically with the event of more and more dlc we have already started going down the route of not being able to sell used content. I think we are already on this slippery slope, the question is how long until we get to the bottom? I don't think it will be the next xbox, but could be the one after if we had the really fast and fat broadband infrastructure to support it.

I do buy a fair few second hand games, games that I would have not bought for full price, but have gone on to by sequals at for close to full price (£30). But I don't think this argument will sway big publishers - i think we would just see more free demos instead.

I don't think this will be a fight between Microsoft and Sony either, simply that all 'future' games will probably not have physical discs. We are a long way from here, but increasingly I think we will be buying subscriptions/passes to content on consoles, perhaps initially with just the basic part of the game on disc and the rest DLC or gaming in the cloud?

At the end of the day I enjoy gaming - i was happy to pay full wack for MW3, and despite all its faults, when I look at the number of hours I spend playing this game, it is still remarkably good value for money. Not as good as a second hand game, but still excellent value in my opinion. When the next xbox does come out I will def be getting my hands on it regardless of any restrictions on second hand games (but I am sure I will miss them and be a bit disgruntled at first).

I don't mind change, but it will be tricky to improve on the xbox controller.

[hoyteamx]

I used to depend on trading in games to get a new one when I was school age. Without it I probably wouldn`t have kept up with new releases and would probably have fallen out of gaming. I`m willing to bet a lot of the younger generation would also fall out of gaming if the used market didn`t exist and in the long run that`s pretty bad for the industry.

And isn`t the competition between retailers and developers good? I think a lot of the features in games today are a response to the used market, multiplayer, DLC...Longevity in todays games is through the roof! Sure some developers are still figuring things out but it`s good to know they`re working on ways to encourage people to keep playing their games.

[Lostsoul 301281]

Originally Posted by hoyteamx

Longevity in todays games is through the roof! Sure some developers are still figuring things out but it`s good to know they`re working on ways to encourage people to keep playing their games.

I wouldn't really say it's through the roof.
Look at some of the big titles like CoD or GoW.
If you're not into the online parts, these games are stupidly short.
Then devs charge more for extra content to make their short games longer. Which is a rip-off if you think about it.
Think back to the days before online consoles.
Games were longer and had enough content to keep you playing them over and over.

But back on topic.
I've probably mentioned this already, but stopping the use of used games also cuts out the rental market.
I for one prefer to rent most titles rather than buy as I don't want to get stuck with games that I lose interest in past a single play through and rinsing a few achievements.
I still buy my favourite titles like GTA, GoW, Mass Effect.
Basically games that are part of a series that I already enjoy playing and will go back to again and again.

[silvercue]

Originally Posted by Dinky Dragon

The next gen of consoles I think will be safer against piracy also, thanks to Blu Ray or and unknown new format.

I don't think it will be harder. In fact if the desire is there due to no 2nd hand games, there will be more of it.

The latest games, movies and operating systems are successfully hacked by pretty clever people...even when countless things have been released with something to make them "uncrackable".

[v CJ v]

It won't happen.

Paying £40ish for a game, with a £0 resale value would harm sales. RRP would have to drop to £15-£20 at most.

Plus, having Bluray is almost pointless. Most people have a Bluray player/PS3 now, and with the digital downloads/marketplace there's no need for it.

[Bamford38]

Originally Posted by v CJ v

Plus, having Bluray is almost pointless. Most people have a Bluray player/PS3 now, and with the digital downloads/marketplace there's no need for it.

I think having blu-ray is invaluable.

I know lots of people who bought a PS3 instead of an Xbox purely because of the blu-ray player.

Also, what does digital downloads have to do with anything?

[Lurking Lawyer]

I bought a PS3 almost exclusively for the Bluray player, and to be able to stream to the living room TV. It barely gets used at all for gaming, other than occasional PS3 exclusives.

I don't quite think we're at the point of doing away with an optical drive altogether just yet. If that's the case, it probably makes more sense to stick a Bluray player in than a DVD player, even if it costs a bit more.

[Munkey Boy]

Think you miss the point of the Bluray player: it allows the higher res textures the next gen will demand. DVD just doesn't cut it any more.

And I'm not entirely sure who gives a monkeys what the resale value is beyond us, the consumers. I think the increased revenue from first hand sales would more than make up for any reduction in customers not having resale ploughed back into a game, which is possibly second hand (and so no revenue) anyway.

[Lostsoul 301281]

Originally Posted by Pistachio

I don't think this will be a fight between Microsoft and Sony either, simply that all 'future' games will probably not have physical discs. We are a long way from here, but increasingly I think we will be buying subscriptions/passes to content on consoles, perhaps initially with just the basic part of the game on disc and the rest DLC or gaming in the cloud?

If that will be the case, for one it'll be a complete rip-off.
I'm sick to death as it is of developers releasing half a game at full price and then charging extra for the rest of it as DLC.

And secondly, the day gaming becomes cloud based is the day I quit new games/consoles.
It's bad enough when you get crappy connections during MP games, but what if that happens when you're playing a single player game that's not on your own system but hosted on some distant server?

Even downloading a full game puts me off.
I'm personally not that bad when it comes to my internet connection, but there are still areas that don't have high-speed broadband.
One area not too far from me can't get it because it's cut off by a railway line.
They only got a gas line about 20 years ago.
And I'm not talking about half a dozen houses. It's more like a few hundred.

There are a lot of reasons people won't be able to get consoles online, including not being able to afford high-speed internet and subscriptions.

[Pistachio]

Originally Posted by Lostsoul 301281

If that will be the case, for one it'll be a complete rip-off.
I'm sick to death as it is of developers releasing half a game at full price and then charging extra for the rest of it as DLC.

I think video games are really good value - when I choose to spend £30/£40 on a game I get hours and hours of game play over several months (including the online modes). You could easy blow that sort of money in a single night out or a months worth of SKY. I struggle to think of many things that give as many hours of entertainment per £ than gaming (perhaps a tv licence and walking). When DLC increases the longevity of a game even further and makes you come back to it - that can only be a good thing.

Originally Posted by Lostsoul 301281

And secondly, the day gaming becomes cloud based is the day I quit new games/consoles.
It's bad enough when you get crappy connections during MP games, but what if that happens when you're playing a single player game that's not on your own system but hosted on some distant server?

Even downloading a full game puts me off.
I'm personally not that bad when it comes to my internet connection, but there are still areas that don't have high-speed broadband.
One area not too far from me can't get it because it's cut off by a railway line.
They only got a gas line about 20 years ago.
And I'm not talking about half a dozen houses. It's more like a few hundred.

There are a lot of reasons people won't be able to get consoles online, including not being able to afford high-speed internet and subscriptions.

Totally agree with you that the infrastructure needs to be there to support online gaming to download full games... and we have a long way to go... but I think it will arrive - more fibre and 4G data connections will be the answer. Once this becomes standard, I think the local blockbusters will be struggling and downloading games online will become common.

When I posted originally I was working on the basis that you would download a game to a console to play, rather than playing in the cloud - but you raise a good point.