[virtual22]

Video games depicting war have come under fire for flouting laws governing armed conflicts. Human rights groups played various games to see if any broke humanitarian laws that govern what is a war crime. The study condemned the games for violating laws by letting players kill civilians, torture captives and wantonly destroy homes and buildings. It said game makers should work harder to remind players about the real world limits on their actions.

The full article is here:-

Link

Seriously though, where are they getting this crud from. Here's some of the highlights:-

The games were analysed to see "whether certain scenes and acts committed by players would constitute violations of international law if they were real, rather than virtual".

I could have told them that for a fraction of whatever it cost them!

Twenty games were scrutinised to see if the conflicts they portrayed and what players can do in the virtual theatres of war were subject to the same limits as in the real world

What, you're telling me that because I can fly in Superman the game I can't in real life! Damn it, was just going to pop up to outer earth orbit and top up me sun tan as well

"Thus," said the report, "the line between the virtual and real experience becomes blurred and the game becomes a simulation of real life situations on the battlefield."

yeah because when you get shot in real life you just respawn somewhere else and carry one!

In particular, the testers looked for how combatants who surrendered were treated, what happened to citizens caught up in war zones and whether damage to buildings was proportionate.

Ok, so maybe we didn't need to put 8 loads of C4 on that car in MW2 Special ops the other night.

It noted that, even though most players would never become real world combatants, the games could influence what people believe war is like and how soldiers conduct themselves in the real world.

In other breaking news, some gamers were distraught to learn today that neither Santa, nor the tooth fairy actually exists.

Finally, if you're going to do a study like this and waste all that money don't bother with the bargain basement, I mean really, GRAW and RSV 1, at least buy the up to date versions you cheap skates!

[PlexShaw]

Agreed. Don't these idiots have anything better to do with their time?

Next thing they'll be saying is that playing Rock Band doesn't turn you into a real musician.

[chewyx]

yawn. more videa game bashing. Newsflash WE KNOW ITS NOT REAL.

The article does make a very good point about books not being subject to this kind of drivel and they are far worse not to mention the gratuitous violence/sex in them (well the good ones anyway)

Video games seem to be the medias new pet hate for some reason.

[BamBamMickey]

Most FPS players **** themselves playing games, let alone on the REAL battlefield.

[Munkey Boy]

File under the continuing theme "People that play videogames are impressionable and need protecting by people that don't play videogames". Follows on from the kids argument (as in the perception that videogames are made for kids).

The sooner us gamers get a decent voice in higher places the better. Tom Watson MP for example is doing a fine job.

[Marshall]

It's to be expected to be honest, since Eminem has gone quiet there's nothing else to blame violence/crime nonsense on.....hence the 'study'.

Video Games: The new Rap Music.....

[Germinator]

[cunners]

The best part is the swipe at the end from Jim Rossignol

Jim Rossignol, who also writes on Rock, Paper, Shotgun, said there was scope to mix real world rules of war into games.

"Whether or not the rules of war are included in the game should be based entirely on whether that improves the experience for the player," he said.

Mr Rossignol said there was plenty of evidence that gaming violence is "fully processed" as fantasy by gamers. Studies of soldiers on the front line in Iraq showed that being a gamer did not desensitise them to what they witnessed.

He added: "Perhaps what this research demonstrates is that the researchers misunderstand what games are, and how they are treated, intellectually, by the people who play them."

I think the expression is, Nailed it!

[daveon]

"Twenty games were scrutinised to see if the conflicts they portrayed and what players can do in the virtual theatres of war were subject to the same limits as in the real world"

Of course not, I can climb walls in real life and don't get stuck on a curb.

"In particular, the testers looked for how combatants who surrendered were treated"

They can surrender So that's why their hands where in the air like that.

If anything games put more restrictions upon us, if it where real life and I wanted to torture someone, there is little stopping me from doing it, in a game it would have to be explicitly coded into the game. How do these people think real life works, people break the rules all the time, they may be punished for it later but that doesn't mean they won't do it. In a game you can't break the rules.

[Captain Speedy]

"The practically complete absence of rules or sanctions is... astonishing," said the study.

Army of Two, Call of Duty 5, Far Cry 2 and Conflict Desert Storm were among the games examined.

Thats funny I can't remember the level in COD5 that was set in Auschwitz, or playing the pee on the Iraqi prisoner mini game in Desert Storm? Oooh now i remember That was real life not a flippin game

People do a lot worse in real life than we can do in a game.

[Bonessi]

Originally Posted by PlexShaw

Next thing they'll be saying is that playing Rock Band doesn't turn you into a real musician.

It doesn't? I best cancel the gigs I had planned at the O2 and tell ticketmaster....

[Ico.]

Originally Posted by virtual22

Video games depicting war have come under fire for flouting laws governing armed conflicts. Human rights groups played various games to see if any broke humanitarian laws that govern what is a war crime. The study condemned the games for violating laws by letting players kill civilians, torture captives and wantonly destroy homes and buildings. It said game makers should work harder to remind players about the real world limits on their actions.

The full article is here:-

I thought this was a thread about virtual22's bad gaming habits for a moment from the title of the thread!

Instead it's another games are bad for you rant... the 1st game I played was Space Invaders (I think) I was shooting guns at living alien beings then and there was no age classification... luckily it never did me any harm!

[PlexShaw]

Originally Posted by Bonessi

It doesn't? I best cancel the gigs I had planned at the O2 and tell ticketmaster....

I think you better had.

My 50 gig stint at the O2 (I was replacing some other artist), which was supposed to start in early July, entitled PlexShaw: This Is It (I think there was an extra "Sh" in there somewhere), had to be cancelled when I realised that there was a world of difference between in a video game and singing in real life.

[iainl7]

Although the news reports suggest this has been treated in a facile manner (games blamed for merely permitting illegal virtual acts by virtue of their simulation accuracy), there's an interesting point to be made here. There are consequences for breaking the 'rules of war' in a real situation, so there is a good argument for this being reflected in games - whether that be a post-level reprimand, mission failure or just building it into the scoring system, depending on what's appropriate for the game concerned.

Gamers want to drone on about "realism", well realism is that you'd get into a fair amount of hot water if you caused unnecessary civilian casualties.

[Black-Adder]

Originally Posted by iainl7

There are consequences for breaking the 'rules of war' in a real situation, so there is a good argument for this being reflected in games - whether that be a post-level reprimand, mission failure or just building it into the scoring system, depending on what's appropriate for the game concerned.
Gamers want to drone on about "realism", well realism is that you'd get into a fair amount of hot water if you caused unnecessary civilian casualties.

You should see the filthy looks I get after I detonated the 'Nuke' in Megaton (Fallout 3)

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by iainl7

Although the news reports suggest this has been treated in a facile manner (games blamed for merely permitting illegal virtual acts by virtue of their simulation accuracy), there's an interesting point to be made here. There are consequences for breaking the 'rules of war' in a real situation, so there is a good argument for this being reflected in games - whether that be a post-level reprimand, mission failure or just building it into the scoring system, depending on what's appropriate for the game concerned.

Gamers want to drone on about "realism", well realism is that you'd get into a fair amount of hot water if you caused unnecessary civilian casualties.

I was having similar thoughts, until I realised I can't think of an example of a war crime I've committed in a game without consequence. I mean, just about all the scenarios are devoid of civilians anyway right? What are the rules that games are missing? Since when did people surrender in games?

[m1ket]

OK so if law applies in games does money apply the opposite, if so i could log into fable2 cash out and buy a new house

[Black-Adder]

War Crimes:
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | What is a war crime?

I don't remember having the opportunity to actually use the electric shock treatment that was in a recent (and very popular) War Crimes game launched in early November.

I've decided I'm in the wrong job. I'm going to quit and devote myself to research. How these people are permitted to output such an unbalanced, inaccurate view is beyond belief.

"The study was carried out by two Swiss human rights organisations"

So not exactly a world-wide in-depth study then...

[Black-Adder]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

Since when did people surrender in games?

Soldier of Fortune - depending on your aim they would drop to their knees.

[Ico.]

Videogames: The create murderers. They breed rapists. They warp our children. Now they violate international law and allow gamers to commit heinous war crimes. That's the assertion of two human rights organizations, in any case. They conducted what one could kindly call a ludicrously unimportant study to come to their conclusions and have managed to prove ... well, nothing.

Trial and Pro Juventute are the two groups who played these games under the guidance of humanitarian lawyers, looking at such games as Army of Two, Call of Duty: World at War, Far Cry 2 and many more. It seems that their only real goal in this study was to pi** (edited for forum use!) and moan about the results. Pi** and moan they did.

"The practically complete absence of rules or sanctions is ... astonishing," states the study. " ... "[We] call upon game producers to consequently and creatively incorporate rules of international humanitarian law and human rights into their games."

Games were chosen over movies thanks to their interactivity, which the study claims blurs the lines between reality and fiction to create a "simulation of real life situations on the battlefield." The report was critical of the fact that characters can be tortured, summary executions can be found and "protected objects" like churches and mosques can be destroyed. Videogames don't wage war according to the Geneva convention, basically.

This is one of the stupidest game-related studies ever.

Link

We moan about stories like this and we end up furiously defending the games to people on forums who (because they are members of a gaming forum) are most likely to disagree with the "study".

[Jaymz404]

Did any of you guys watch the Penn and Teller episode about video games and kids? That was really good =)

I just find it a bit pathetic, the media was complaining about modern warfare 2's airport level and claiming that it would "rot" and "minipulate children". I like how they fail to mention that games carries an 18 certificate and surley a game designed for adults can have things that are potentially disturbing.

That combined with the game even asking you if you would like to play that mission..

meh just PC gone mad.

[iainl7]

And, having bothered to read some of the actual report, rather than just the media searching for soundbites, it largely seems this is what they're talking about. The harshest words in it are for games like GRAW and CoD, that like to pretend they're being serious, but then not only ignore but require you to perform illegal acts that are supposedly ordered by military commanders, without any repercussions. Silly 'shoot everything' games get a much lighter touch, and those that do introduce incentives to fight legally are praised.

[Mr Noble]

Would love to have an in-depth conversation on this topic , but i'm eagarly awaiting the delivery of my Pave low by UPS, must dash someone just pulled onto the drive , (Now where did i put that AK-47 )

[Jamezinho]

Games should be seen as escapism. The grinding rules of real life should not always apply.

[Black-Adder]

Originally Posted by Jamezinho

Games should be seen as escapism. The grinding rules of real life should not always apply.

Agreed. And for those that must have real life there is always Sim City, Railroad Tycoon, Flight Simulator and Sim Abattoir

Was there this much fuss by animal welfare groups when "Cabela's Grandslam Hunting 2004 Trophies" was released to worldwide acclaim?

Cabela's GrandSlam Hunting: 2004 Trophies for PC - GameRankings

[wilbanat]

Why is every thing that is fun picked on?
As soon as something comes out that we enjoy someone somewhere has to find fault with it.
I have never been shocked or disturbed by a game as you can clearly see it's not real.

[Crovon]

There always has to be something to lay the blame on when society goes haywire.

Music, Movies, Books - they have all had the finger pointed at them at some point in history, now its the games turn.

This is done mainly because parents and people in positions of influence dont want to admit when they have made mistakes and it is really themselves that are responsible. MW2 is a great example as so far all they have talked about is the civilian scene and how sickening it is for their children to see and play - never mind the fact that as parents they shouldnt be letting them play an 18 rated game which is intended for adult use.

The report in question is laughable at best as they clearly do not understand what games are for - period.

[Brigggers]

Originally Posted by iainl7

And, having bothered to read some of the actual report, rather than just the media searching for soundbites, it largely seems this is what they're talking about. The harshest words in it are for games like GRAW and CoD, that like to pretend they're being serious, but then not only ignore but require you to perform illegal acts that are supposedly ordered by military commanders, without any repercussions.

what should they do, implement end of level debriefings where you have to write a report up of your mission in no less than 10 pages.
then if anything is wrong you have to face your commanding officer to explain your actions and so on with it finally ending up in the hague on war crime charges with a level that lasts months and months of just sitting there and giving evidence.
and finally if youre found guilty ms can ban your console from playing any games.

jesus h christ, their report isnt defendable, its just totally ludicrous.