[Chrispyphillips]

You know what gang, as a valued member of the AVForums community () and as someone who has a responsibility of checking the forums daily, I've noticed a few things, particularly around here....

The GH forums are getting WAY busy these days. Plenty of new faces to the crowd, lots of new threads starting (most of them about "Are the GH guitars compatible with RB..." Why I outta!!! ) and a lot more people playing the older games (GH2 and 3 for instance)

It always stikes me as odd, considering the way that, in general, we lament the GH series but rejoice everything that is Rock Band (release of RB2 instruments fiasco aside!). This only goes to show me what marketing power the GH series has over its (by and large superior) counterpart. Of all the 'recent games played' on peoples GT's, the ones bearing the crest of GH seem to make more appearances than those exclaiming 'RB'! But why is this? We have 3 Rock band games now in Rock Band 1, Rock band 2 and Rock band AC/DC. There is CONSIDERABLY more DLC for Rock Band (so much so that you could probably make another 5 games out of it!) and we all know the set up, formula, charting and graphics are a country mile better (of course this opinion is personal preference, but it is majority, honest) then its Neversoft counterpart.

Is this trend of marketing preference to do with Neversofts grasps on the market, or has it all stemmed from the solid efforts Harmonix did with the game before concentrating on the Rock band franchise? Have they maybe shot themsleves in the foot with high pricing and poor customer PR? How many adverts do we see for GH, that is clearly lacking from Rock Bands arsenal? Does the mulitple platform appearances of GH titles (such as the DS's "On Tour" version) have anything to do with the popularity for a wider demographic? Is it to do with the fact that some of Rocks most influential characters appear in the GH series, whereas Rock band simply leaves you to create your own incarnations of rock gods?

I think its time for a discussion of these points. Lets get some of the forum members discussing why brand 'x' is their game of choice, or why they feel brand 'y' is losing out in the race?! Harmonix have stated they feel that their business model is suffering, thus resulting in the slow release of information regarding the 2nd generation of peripherals (and leading to the uncertainly around releases for the Australian and European Market, as well as global PS3/Wii markets)

CHAT!!!!!

[lentini]

I think everyone is clear on why I prefer Rock Band over the Guitar Hero franchise (post-Harmonix)

[Spidey987]

If you go to the high street, you'd probably have trouble finding Rock Band 2 or AC/DC Live, the latter in particular. They could improve PR and prices but if the stock isn't out there, it's all for naught.

I think Rock Band discussion seems to be lacking too lately, I think a lot of people jumped at the chance of purchasing DLC when the game was first released but have slowed down now they've got a decent sized collection. Last weeks DLC (Alt. Country and JEW) didn't even get a thread, which I think is a first since Rock Band's EU release.

[Slyboy]

Originally Posted by Spidey987

If you go to the high street, you'd probably have trouble finding Rock Band 2 or AC/DC Live, the latter in particular. They could improve PR and prices but if the stock isn't out there, it's all for naught.

I think Rock Band discussion seems to be lacking too lately, I think a lot of people jumped at the chance of purchasing DLC when the game was first released but have slowed down now they've got a decent sized collection. Last weeks DLC (Alt. Country and JEW) didn't even get a thread, which I think is a first since Rock Band's EU release.

I think you have made a very good point about Rock Band. Traffic has slowed down on that forum and I think people have so much DLC and tracks to play that actually we dont need any more (thats not to say I dont want more!!!). When I went back to GHII the other day, I was shocked at how few tracks there was on the game, but it made you play them all to death. I cant think how many of the millions of DLC tracks I have got that I have only played a couple of times, mainly because they have just disappeared into the very large library of tracks. Thats why sometimes I like playing the random setlists because I might play something I forgot I had.

The thing about the marketing of GH games for me is the massive difference that has resulted in more sales for GH in general. Its everywhere out there so if you want a music game and dont know much about the genre then the one with the market presence is GH so thats what you buy. The fact that (in my opinion) it is not anywhere near as good as RB is almost an irrelevance. I am surprised that MTV have not pushed RB more as a clear rival to the GH series.

Thats my 2p's worth anyway.

ps - Nice thread Crispy

[Spidey987]

One thing I've found from jumping from Rock Band to Rock Band 2 is that I seem to spend less time replaying tracks and getting better scores. It's like there's so much to RB2, with so many setlists and so many songs, that it becomes a little overwelming and a singular goal like improving your score in one song seems to get swept aside. And yes, you can use quickplay but that doesn't track your score across different difficulties like Rock Band did.

Tonight I played Texas Flood on the original and set myself a goal to FC it (I won't say on which difficulty to spare my shame), I really don't think I would have done that if I popped in Rock Band 2 instead.

P.S. sorry for going off on a non GH tangent.

[chewyx]

hmm interesting thread chrispy!

Theres no arguing that RB screwed the pooch when it came to marketting outside the US. They seem happy to let GH have the other regions and concentrate on the US. Ive noticed that in all HMX press releases recently they all say all RB instruments will work as well as instruments from other music games so maybe that is a new strategy for them.

Chrispy has already pointed out why he preferes RB and I feel exactly the same as to why its better.

Its a shame really that RB isnt publicised better over here as people are settling for the (IMHO) inferior product. I ll bet there are many people that havent even heard of RB and those that have may even think its a cheap GH imitation which couldnt be further from the truth.

[shagaboopon]

The simple fact is that by securing timed exclusivity deals and having horrendous delays between region launches RB has shot itself in the foot too much to compete with GH. Had RB1 and RB2 both launched simultaneously worldwide with the instruments they would have blown GHWT out of the water before they started. As it is they've been made to look mugs by not releasing information and products to the public that want them.

[Guns_LotsOfGuns]

Im going to use a bit of text i used in my AVF Blog to make my point (shameless plug )

In April 2007, the Washington Post convinced Joshua Bell, a famous violin virtuoso to play in the Washington DC subway during the morning rush hour. So he took his $3.5 million Stradivarius violin and played. Almost no one noticed or stopped to listen. He collected a total of $32 for an hour of playing (excluding a $20 bill that was given by a person who recognized him).

People are essentially sheep, they follow the crowd assuming that the majority of people cant be wrong.

Harmonix have also prettty much devised thier own demise, by making the GH franchise so strong with I & II it essentially became the ipod of the music game genre, a brand so strong the even superior product cant stop it.

Thier treatment of non US markets and dragging thier feet with hardware quality and availability are mistakes they couldnt afford to make with GH being so strong in the public mind. In reality they need to start an aggresive marketing campaign with heavy emphasis on the advantages, 500+ tracks, the team that started the Music game craze etc

Thats if they want to try and beat GH that is, im sure they arent exactly wanting for cash with DLC doing so well. Second place in this case come with huge profits anyway.

It will be interesting which strategy will be more popular, yearly interations and band specific spin offs or Platform expansion and DLC.

Either way the competiton should keep them both on thier toes!

[BradleyLove]

EA & MTV have shot themselves in the foot with the whole 360 exclusivity period in Europe. Bear with me, but you'll see why this has been a bad thing for RB.

I don't own GH on the 360. I started off with GH1 on PS2 and just kept to the PS platform for GH games. My other PS3 owning friends have had no choice and had to buy GH rather than RB. But this has had a knock-on effect on my 360 owning friends. They've come round to mine, played and love Guitar Hero and gone out and bought that themselves (depsite having Rock Band available on 360).

They haven't been able to play Rock Band (without buying it themselves), therefore despite it being available they don't consider it.

By limiting the availability, they've actually lost sales.

If RB had have come out worldwide at the same time, I'd have been all over it and more of my friends could have played it and bought it. But as it stands, MS moneyhatted EA/MTV and I believe that's why GH is the clear leader.

[Captain Speedy]

Harmonix may have lost sales through limited avaiabilty, but you have to take into account the money that harmonix got from MS to secure the exclusive. I bet that little wdge helped to secure the Beatles exclusive that they have got which will be a nice little earner for them at $250 for the full mystery pack.

[Tufty McTavish]

I've long thought the RB forums were more lively than the GH forums here on AVForums. Must admit I've been struggling to find the time for much gaming at the moment as I'm spending a lot of time board gaming these days. But when I want a quick 30minute session it is still RB that I return to.

I've got so much DLC to play that it never gets enough attention. Back in the days of GH2/3 that was pretty much all we had so going on a score attack session was practical. Not so nowadays: do I play an album themed gig, do I continue my world tour, do I play some favourite songs, tackle a challenge etc.

[AdsterUK]

I've got GH:WT even though I would have preferred RB and the reasoning was very very simple...the wireless guitar. I can get any of the other games at a later point but I wanted the GH guitar, I've tried the RB one and as well as being wired it just felt cheap and badly made.

[Gordon B]

As a newcomer to the whole GH phenomenon ( I purchased GHWT on Boxing Day) I would say alot of it comes down to drums and the wireless guitar. The GH drums are far superior to the RB ones and as I wanted to primarily play drums then this was a no brainer, also having wireless instruments these days should be a given.

Also ACDC RB was, as a stand alone product, a complete sham. No likeness of the band or anything. This was basically DLC dressed up in a pretty little box and I for one fell for it...I think GH Metallica will be the benchmark for future band specific releases.

Having said all that, with my IONs inbound as we speak I am making the switch to RB2. Mainly because I play on my own and I like the extra challenges and things that RB2 throws up. Kind of keeps you a bit more interested than just playing through a catalogue of songs.

But I will be picking up GH Metallica when that comes out too.

So both sets have there merits I suppose and alot of it is down to personal preference. I disagree that we are all a bit sheep like. I think gamers are way more intelligent than people give us credit for....

[lentini]

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

Also ACDC RB was, as a stand alone product, a complete sham. No likeness of the band or anything. This was basically DLC dressed up in a pretty little box and I for one fell for it...

They never marketed it as anything other than DLC dressed up in a pretty little box so it wasn't a sham at all.

[chewyx]

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

As a newcomer to the whole GH phenomenon ( I purchased GHWT on Boxing Day) I would say alot of it comes down to drums and the wireless guitar. The GH drums are far superior to the RB ones and as I wanted to primarily play drums then this was a no brainer, also having wireless instruments these days should be a given.

Also ACDC RB was, as a stand alone product, a complete sham. No likeness of the band or anything. This was basically DLC dressed up in a pretty little box and I for one fell for it...I think GH Metallica will be the benchmark for future band specific releases.

Having said all that, with my IONs inbound as we speak I am making the switch to RB2. Mainly because I play on my own and I like the extra challenges and things that RB2 throws up. Kind of keeps you a bit more interested than just playing through a catalogue of songs.

But I will be picking up GH Metallica when that comes out too.

So both sets have there merits I suppose and alot of it is down to personal preference. I disagree that we are all a bit sheep like. I think gamers are way more intelligent than people give us credit for....

Carefull, youll get the upgrade bug! Since ive got my IONs ive spent nearly twice as much again on upgrades. (not to mention re-decorating my lounge so they arent in the middle of the room all the time and have their own space out of the way)

Dont forget also that the AC/DC was always billed as an expansion pack and while at £25 for 18 songs it was slightly more than normal DLC it was far cheaper than a normal game (GH Aerosmith and Metallica are both more expensive-Yes I Know they have more songs and charachters) The reasons they released it like this was due to AC/DC insisting that if people want their music, they have to buy the whole album and not singles.

I agree with the comments about people avoiding the wired RB strat. That was a big mistake on HMX's part not making the 360 guitar wireless or at the very least release the wireless guitar seperately like they did in the states.

In this day and age people dont want wires! Although, ive never understood why both GH and RB have made their drums wireless. Personally, id rather have wires on mine (they dont move after all!) and not have to worry about changing batteries.

[Gordon B]

I think the finance dept might have something to say about that.

Besides I already have the PC upgrade bug so I don't think its possible to pick up another

[chewyx]

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

I think the finance dept might have something to say about that.

Besides I already have the PC upgrade bug so I don't think its possible to pick up another

Dont say I didnt warn you! Before you know it youll think the bass pedal is rubbish and want to upgrade (£80 to £180) and want another cymbal (£50). Plus you should get a drum throne if you havent already got one (about £20) Its amazing how much difference the correct seating position will make. And some Nylon tipped sticks (£5-10) as the wooden ones can cut the pads up when they start to fray.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but a MAJOR advantage RB has over GH is the ability to have all the tracks in one place without having to swap discs. This isnt me being lazy (honest!) its more for convienience. Especially if im having a party, people dont want to wait 5 mins to change the discs therefore RB1 songs (if it couldnt be imported) would never get played and there are some cracking tunes on there.

This is a big reason I dont buy any GH DLC as Im concerned that come November when GH5 comes out, any DLC ive bought wont be compatible and I will have wasted money (ive spent enough on RB I cant afford to waste any!)

[Gordon B]

Way ahead of you my friend.

My set came with an excellent stool (ooer) and I have just been and picked up a pair of nylon tipped from my local music shop for £6.

The third cymbal will be going on the christmas list though.....

Also, to add about swapping discs, I like the way that RB2 integrates any dlc into the tour automatically. Nice touch that.

[BradleyLove]

Word of warning to those of you using Nylon tipped sticks.

1) They might mark your pads. Nylon tips leave marks on real cymbals and drums skins so be warned about your pads.

2) Wooden sticks tend to deteriorate over time but nylon sticks break so be careful of that. They can result on sharp ends that may damage your pads. This is why I don't use nylon tips on my real electric drumkit.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by BradleyLove

Word of warning to those of you using Nylon tipped sticks.

1) They might mark your pads. Nylon tips leave marks on real cymbals and drums skins so be warned about your pads.

2) Wooden sticks tend to deteriorate over time but nylon sticks break so be careful of that. They can result on sharp ends that may damage your pads. This is why I don't use nylon tips on my real electric drumkit.

Hmm, I was advised that nylon tips were the way to go.

[BradleyLove]

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

Hmm, I was advised that nylon tips were the way to go.

I haven't used nylons on my GHWT kit so I can't 100% guarantee they will mark, but I use nylon tips for my real drum kit (these - I used to use shawstix wooden nylon but they kept snapping!) and they mark my cymabls. The marks come off with some cymbal polish, but the marks do not come off my remo pinstripes (tom skins).

It's just something to bear in mind. As I said, it hasn't happened to me personally cos I don't use nylons on my GHWT kit (for this reason).

[chewyx]

The nylon tipped sticks do leave a mark on the IONs (along with fine white flecks) both of which can be wiped clean with a cloth no problem.

[Chrispyphillips]

[BradleyLove]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

Apologies for offering advice... god forbid people find any useful information here...

[lentini]

Originally Posted by BradleyLove

Apologies for offering advice... god forbid people find any useful information here...

THere's plenty of Ion drum threads in the Rock Band section

[BradleyLove]

Originally Posted by lentini

THere's plenty of Ion drum threads in the Rock Band section

That's great... but I wasn't talking about Ion drums and I don't have Rock Band.

[PlexShaw]

I use wood-tipped Zildjian Anti-Vibe Trigger Sticks and they seem to work fine with my RB1 kit (no problems so far) - and did with the GH:WT kit when I still had it.

Incidently, I'm quite surprised by how much more enjoyable GH:WT is on drums when played with the RB kit. Kind of makes a mockery of the "use our kit of the optimal experience" warning when you load up the game with a RB kit connected.

[STANNY08]

There are two reasons i went for Guitar Hero world tour over Rockband. The price of the full band package, and the fact that the drums in the guitar hero pack has a total of 5 pads plus pedal against the rockbands 4, so i assumed that the Rockband drums would not be compatible with Guitar Hero.

[shrimp3r]

Originally Posted by STANNY08

There are two reasons i went for Guitar Hero world tour over Rockband. The price of the full band package, and the fact that the drums in the guitar hero pack has a total of 5 pads plus pedal against the rockbands 4, so i assumed that the Rockband drums would not be compatible with Guitar Hero.

I think GHWT just drops a lane when it detects the RB kit.

Mark Mac

[PlexShaw]

Yeah, the game simply adjusts the number of lanes to 4 when the RB is plugged in. IMO Guitar Hero is far more enjoyable when played with the RB kit.

I'm not sure why people thought it would not be compatible considering it was announced by Neversoft the RB kit would work with GH:WT at E3 last Summer.