[Chrispyphillips]

Originally Posted by Tufty McTavish

So I think I did my shoulder in playing 'real' drums! My right shoulder started getting stiff and sore a couple of weeks ago but it's far better now. Guessing I pulled a muscle or just used them in ways they weren't happy about. The reason I think I'm going to blame the drum kit is because my left arm started feeling very similar shortly afterwards. I use my right hand on the hi-hat (Yellow) notes and have been playing a lot of high note frequency songs on Hard of late, and it's the arm that has suffered the most. Flinging your arms about to whack the cymbals is a really great feeling, but it's an action I don't often do.

Or maybe I slept on it wrong. Either way, blaming the drum kit is more entertaining.

Over on Eurogamer they're commenting on some sarky comments coming out of the GH and RB studios:


I guess the GHWT drums are going to be my control interface of choice moving forward. But Harmonix fought back with:

Hmm, weak argument by Harmonix in my mind. They reaffirm what the GH guy states about the thought process. "Oh, theres cymbals, we need to compete with this, whats the cheapest and easiest way of doing this? Cymbal ports? That should work, we can once again fleece people to make even more money then!!!"

It doesnt sit right with me. I'll aappreciate that they are musicians 1st and all that, but we are gamers first, and want the best for our money. Harmonix's instruments dont cut it at all for me. I for one wont be buying another Rock Band related peripheral! As I've stated, I'm looking to buy a drum kit (the point in this thread) and then will stick with the GH stuff. As long as theres compatibility.

Tufty, this news deserves a place on the official thread I think. If you havent already I'll post over there if thats cool!

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

As I've stated, I'm looking to buy a drum kit (the point in this thread) and then will stick with the GH stuff. As long as theres compatibility.

The GHWT drum set looks to be the most widely flexible item at this time. I'm thinking its MIDI-controller interfacing is still that little bit of magic that means you can use your e-drum kit with any game without losing any functionality. For instance, mine is technically a RB drum-set to all other games, which means I lose some degree of functionality. Plug it in via a GHWT drum-set interface and it becomes a GHWT level item, and assuming games support all the features of that kit then I'm good to go. Quite how we'll manage the programming so that we "can expand it to as many drums and cymbals as humanly possible" remains to be seen however.

[Tufty McTavish]

I just upgraded one of my drum pads. After a few months of use I decided that I absolutely love the feel of the mesh snare drum. The rubber toms are super sensitive, not too loud, and have great bounce, but the mesh just feels lighter, quieter and more ... well, awesome!

So I decided to try one of these bad boys:

This replaces one of these original items:

I thought I'd try one at a time to spread the cost and not dive into something I wasn't too sure about. I've not had a chance to put it to extended use but I am already very pleased. I'll do at least one of the other toms in due course too. The inconsistency across the kit nags at me a little.

For anybody considering the e-drum route, I can wholeheartedly recommend it. The immersion factor is incredible, plus the sensitivity compared to my original RB toy drum set is, unsurprisingly, unbelievable. And if you wanted to dive in fully, I can totally recommend thinking about the mesh pads instead of fully rubber items. I kinda wish I'd known this from the beginning actually, but I always knew I could upgrade at a later date if I felt inclined. I now feel so inclined.

[Chrispyphillips]

I hate you Tufty!

[Chrispyphillips]

Tufty Tufty Tufty Tufty Tufty Tufty!!!!

In the local paper theres an advert for 'Roland electric drum kit, 8 piece, as new'

It must be the TDK-3s mate, it must be!! At that price, with payday tomorrow, and the disaster that was the mrs leaving me, it would be rude not to?!?!?!?!?

I'm ringing the number now to see if they're still available but no ones home! Oh man, with a stroke of luck I could be playing the drums before I know it! They're cheaper than the cheapest kit I've seen in the local music store, and not too much more than the ion kits price (for more inputs and a brain too)

Question. Was the bass pedal/headphones included in your kit, or were they separate purchases? If these are included I may be tempted to go the whole hog and not even barter!

My luck this week - they've been sold!

<Fingers crossed smiley!!!!>

[Stinja]

This thread is great and reminds me why i like AVForums; no matter how much Teh Mrs nags me about my gadget/AV/gaming spending, i can come on here and find dozens of people sadder* than me




* you can take that as a compliment too BTW.

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

My luck this week - they've been sold!

Nooooooooooooooooo! I was so excited for you. Now I'm crushed too.

Question. Was the bass pedal/headphones included in your kit, or were they separate purchases?

I'll still answer this for future reference. No, the kick pedal is not included. Luckily I already had this as my first mod project was to make a real kick pedal work with the original RB drums (which is an incredible easy project actually). No headphones either.

[Chrispyphillips]

mate, I think you misunderstood my post. It was meant to read that knowing my luck with everything thats gone on this week, they have probably been sold....

but...

I'VE BOUGHT THEM!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!

An (as good as) brand new set of Roland TD3's!!!

I'm like a kid at Christmas, in Disney Land!! Just been to view them and they are pristine. Mesh on the snare, bass pedal included. No headphones so thats a bit, and no stool, but I can get them the weekend/next week! I'm gonna pick them up tomorrow (when I should be working!!)

I had to get them, it would be rude to music not to!

Yipppeeeeeeeeeee

[Slyboy]

Chrispy - well chuffed for you. You will have to give us an update what they are like once you get it all set up. I'm so jealous...

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

I'VE BOUGHT THEM!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!

An (as good as) brand new set of Roland TD3's for £299!!!

HECK YEAH!!! Man, that's f-ing awesome. Believe me when I say I am so excited for you. That applies to anybody that jumps in and gets a proper decent drum set, but since we've got the same kind, big thumbs to you, sir.

I'm like a kid at Christmas, in Disney Land!!

That doesn't really wear off either...

Just been to view them and they are pristine. Mesh on the snare, bass pedal included.

A pedal included is a sweet saving of perhaps £20+ and then postage on top. Glad to hear they're pristine. The cymbals and toms all 'mark up' when used but they seem to get to that 'used' state and don't seem to see much change.

I'm a little wary of spreading muck onto my mesh snare drum head though. Might be worth getting some nylon tipped drum sticks if you haven't already. I briefly used my std Rock Band wooden sticks and the tips quickly got covered in a bit of black stuff from the toms, whereas the nylon tipped stick I normally use seem unaffected by this. I don't want to spread anything on my lovely bright mesh snare!

Oh man, better than half price Rolands! These are cheaper than the Black Mamba's I had my eye on. I had to get them, it would be rude to music not to!

Sounds like an absolute steal to my mind. 2nd-hand from a private owner I assume? 'twas meant to be, man! I mean, after all this time they literally just fell into your lap the week you hit a low. That's a message, that is! :D

So, now you need to connect them up to the game. Just in time for you to reconsider which GH:WT pack to get, huh? Are you wishing you'd never sold your RB1 drums now? You'll need to modify them and add the MSA-P kit - which, by the time you add a project box and all the MIDI cabling, adds up to a fair extra whack.

[Chrispyphillips]

They even gave me sticks mate, nylon tipped!!

Been 'playing' the last hour or so! I'm in love! So amazing.

Yeah its 2nd hand, couple whose son has rarely played them so top notch! Picked them up tonight as well. landed!

I'm gonna stick with the GH kit mate. Will get the guitar/mic/game, and will have th interoperability of the midi kit on the drums, so can use them to play GH and RB! No need for any modding/soldering of any sorts! Happy with that mate!

Thank god the mrs has gone, I'd never have been allowed these. It was fate mate, saw them in the evening post, and I was the 1st to call so they 'dibbsed' them for me!!!

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

They even gave me sticks mate, nylon tipped!!

Good lord, can you align the stars any better than this?!!

Been 'playing' the last hour or so! I'm in love! So amazing.

They are sooooooooo sensitive aren't they? I still like lightly brushing them and seeing a reaction in RB. You have to be careful when you're moving about that you don't come into contact e.g with your clothes as that'll move you about the menus, select songs, etc. Happens here all the time when we change drummers and a light touch starts the gig when we're not quite ready, or cancels us out of a band.

Yeah its 2nd hand, couple whose son has rarely played them so top notch!

Bargain of the year then!

I'm gonna stick with the GH kit mate. Will get the guitar/mic/game, and will have th interoperability of the midi kit on the drums, so can use them to play GH and RB! No need for any modding/soldering of any sorts! Happy with that mate!

I look forward to hearing about how you get on then.

So, couple of things that you'll want to know about. You'll need to look in the manual to find out about MIDI remapping. I selected a drum set whose sound I didn't much like (#4 in my case) and start remapping the different types of hits to 4 different MIDI values (for R, Y, B and G pads) which I'd preprogrammed into my MSA-P via Sysex. You'll find you can configure rim shots to output the same value as hitting the item properly. That way they'll all register no matter how you hit the pad/cymbal. I think you'll probably want to be outputting the values that I listed in a post over on the GH:WT preview thread recently. These are the values that the GH:WT MIDI plug expects.

Secondly, you'll definitely need to adjust the crosstalk cancellation values. This is also covered in the manual and is a dead easy thing to adjust. I took a note of all the default values so I could restore them later if necessary. I looked at the toms that were causing me the most trouble and noted that their values were something like 20, while another item was as high as 50. I raised all inputs to the same level, 50, but noticed I was still getting a little crosstalk. I think I then bumped it up to 55 and I've never needed to touch that again. I'll double check the numbers for you later.

Try thwacking the frame of the kit with your drum stick and notice how many indicators light up on the brain for an example.

Thank god the mrs has gone, I'd never have been allowed these. It was fate mate, saw them in the evening post, and I was the 1st to call so they 'dibbsed' them for me!!!

I'm quite willing to believe it, dude. So awesome.

Here are the GH:WT MIDI values.

[kismet110]

^^^

You lucky s*d Chrispy, well done That's a great price, even adding a decent throne and headphones will still make it less than buying an ION + required accessories (not taking into account a MIDI interface of course).

Set I had my eye on I missed out on but more will surface no doubt. Still not 100% sure when I get it what option I'm gonna go for regards interface as the choice is a little bewildering; GH:WT, MidiRocker, J5 or MSA-P

The first is the best in terms of cost/ease but no way I can have two kits in the room so hoping someone comes out with a neat little project box that just has the controller soon.

Also had some email exchanges with Scott @ ByteArts (top guy) about a MidiRocker with an RB2 drum controller built-in which would be wireless and (once he's worked it out) velocity sensitive + distinctly recognise cymbal hits.

J5 is smart but more expensive (and lots of Y-cables) and MSA-P is only for programming experts like Tufty...

Once again, well done and let us know how you get on with it.

[oasismark]

Happy for ya Chrispy, and jelous too!

Post a pic or summat, i dont even know what these drums look like!

how do they connect to the 360?

and what pad is what colour?

[Chrispyphillips]

Cheers lads!! So chuffed I dont wanna be in work today! Not in my flat the weekend either so cant play them till Sunday!

Going to pick up a pair of headphones from Argos (Sony's for £19.99 - dont wanna go overboard) and thats me fairly sorted!!

The manual is a beast Tufty. I'll get around to reading it and setting it exactly to my likings, but for now I just wanna hit things and make a noise!!!

Kis, I know what you mean about what type of interface to use, but the way I see it, I need all the GH stuff anyway, and can use the drum midi thing (and since I wont need the frane for this, can put the drums on the table and hook up to the rolands, saving space) and can then easily sell the kit once someone brings out a neat box to do all these tricks with, probably in the not so distant future!!

So thats 2 convertees, a few are actively looking and interested. I knew this thread was a good idea!!!

Its the bargain of the year in my eyes!

[Chrispyphillips]

Originally Posted by oasismark

Happy for ya Chrispy, and jelous too!

Post a pic or summat, i dont even know what these drums look like!

how do they connect to the 360?

and what pad is what colour?

Got a pic, but cant get it onto my computer till next week. At the moment mark they're literally just the kit, I havent got them connected to the 360 as I only bought them last night and didnt go down Tuftys MSA-P route thing (plus I sold my RB drums) so am waiting till the GH kit comes out, and using the midi interfacing of that! So I havent had a chance to map the colours etc, but I know where they'll all be when I'm ready!! I just really hope you can use the midi-interface of the GH kit, to map the pads to play Rock Band. Otherwise i'll be using the GH kit to play RB!

I'll keep this thread updated, and like Tufty does if I make additional purchases I'll stick em on here. The great thing about this kit is that its 100% upgradable. Mesh can be added to any/all the tom pads/bass kick (not cymbals I believe) and a new brain can even be bought and added, and I'm sure then additional cymbals can be added, if one so desires!!

I'm really enthuising over this, cant wait till I use them to play the games!!!

[Chrispyphillips]

Mark, these are the drums...

Although mine doesnt have the double bass, and my bass pedal is different to the one shown. They're by far better than the Mambas I had my eye on, and a cracking entry level kit!!

Tufty, does your kit have the 'pad' hi-hat, or the 'cymbal' hi-hat? I've seen variations of the kit which look like this...

Would certainly be interested in upgrading this first thing. Would really add to the kit IMO!

[kismet110]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

Kis, I know what you mean about what type of interface to use, but the way I see it, I need all the GH stuff anyway, and can use the drum Midi thing (and since I wont need the frame for this, can put the drums on the table and hook up to the Rolands, saving space) and can then easily sell the kit once someone brings out a neat box to do all these tricks with, probably in the not so distant future!!

Fair point if you have need for GH kit anyway and space to plonk the kit on, sadly I don't have that luxury as 360 is in the bedroom and even one kit is a biggie

The other cool thing you'll be able to do is map the redundant elements (as far as GH is concerned) to the same MIDI notes as the used parts, i.e. have Tom3 the same as Tom2 and the Ride Cymbal same as Crash.

This way you can utilise everything on your Roland rather than just some of the pads for full-on rockin' goodness

PS: Regards your earlier post, you can definitely use GH:WT kit in Rock Band on 360, think there is an issue with PS3.

[Chrispyphillips]

Originally Posted by kismet110

PS: Regards your earlier post, you can definitely use GH:WT kit in Rock Band on 360, think there is an issue with PS3.

But....

Can you use the GH midi module, to hook up an e-kit, and use that for Rock Band?! Thats the 6 million dollar question!

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

But....

Can you use the GH midi module, to hook up an e-kit, and use that for Rock Band?! Thats the 6 million dollar question!

RBone? Interesting. I don't know if the GH:WT kit works with RB1, but it should with RB2. Wasn't somebody commenting elsewhere that one of cymbals doesn't get used on the GH:WT kit when playing on RB?

I think you could setup a drum map in your Roland's brain for GH:WT mode (to output all MIDI signals, then another for when you want to play RB2. This second map configures all the toms/cymbals to use just the four MIDI channels that RB2 recognises via the GH:WT drums.

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by kismet110

This way you can utilise everything on your Roland rather than just some of the pads for full-on rockin' goodness

Yes, every instrument input on my TD-3 has a output that triggers something in Rock Band. Before a song starts I often wail away on all the pads/cymbals just for fun. I haven't started using the HiHat control pedal admittedly. I think some folks use that in open/closed mode to swap the HiHat cymbal between Yellow/Blue.

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

Tufty, does your kit have the 'pad' snare, or the 'cymbal' snare? I've seen variations of the kit which look like this...

^^^ The above is exactly what I have, a cymbal HiHat, a mesh snare, and pads for Toms 1 through 3. I'm in the process of changing the pad toms for mesh toms (as shown earlier) as they have a wicked feel and are much quieter. With the vast amount of £££s that you've saved you can upgrade many items

[Bursar]

Yeah, the right most GH:WT cymbal (orange?) doesn't get used when using the kit in RB. A quick look around suggests that the GH:WT drums will work in RB1, but only on the 360. Apparently PS3 RB and RB2 needs a patch to make the drums work.

However not being much of a PS3 gamer, I don't know if/when that patch is due.

[leedm33]

Chrispy or Tufty, when you guys can drag your self away from them TD3's is there any chance either of you guys could post up some rough measurements of the footprint these TD3's cover.
Am genuinely interested in looking for a set of these and have a small unused bedroom that i'm looking at turning into a games/drum set room.
Would be nice to know the width and depth so to get a rough idea how much room they use.

[kismet110]

Originally Posted by Tufty McTavish

I'm in the process of changing the pad toms for mesh toms (as shown earlier) as they have a wicked feel and are much quieter. With the vast amount of £££s that you've saved you can upgrade many items

Don't mind me asking but how much did the mesh replacement cost you?

[Chrispyphillips]

Originally Posted by leedm33

Chrispy or Tufty, when you guys can drag your self away from them TD3's is there any chance either of you guys could post up some rough measurements of the footprint these TD3's cover.
Am genuinely interested in looking for a set of these and have a small unused bedroom that i'm looking at turning into a games/drum set room.
Would be nice to know the width and depth so to get a rough idea how much room they use.

Aww man, I dont have a clue where the measuring tape is!!! (rushes off to find it)

Nope, looks like the ex got it in the divorce!

They're not as big as you'd imagine though mate, I'd say go to a music shop and check out a set for comparison. They're about 4 1/2 ft tall and about the same wide (as a real rough estimate) but can be arranged a bit to fit most spaces! I love them, and havent played them since Friday, so am gonna try out my new cans I bought and give them a bashing now!!

[leedm33]

No worries Chrispy, i found some specs on the Roland website.

I am watching ebay like a hawk now but there's nothing there at the mo for the price you paid for yours! In fact 2nd hand prices seem quite high, which puts your bargain into perspective.

Playing toy drums(Rockband) has really given me a taste for wanting to learn the real things so to speak.
I think for the time being i'll be just looking to get a set at the right price......the compatability with RB/GH will have to come at a later date.

[Chrispyphillips]

Originally Posted by leedm33

No worries Chrispy, i found some specs on the Roland website.

I am watching ebay like a hawk now but there's nothing there at the mo for the price you paid for yours! In fact 2nd hand prices seem quite high, which puts your bargain into perspective.

Playing toy drums(Rockband) has really given me a taste for wanting to learn the real things so to speak.
I think for the time being i'll be just looking to get a set at the right price......the compatability with RB/GH will have to come at a later date.

Very true mate! I cant quite believe how cheap they were! As I said, at the price, it would have been really stupid of me not to! I could probably sell them on ebay and get about £100 more than I paid! (I'm not gonna though!)

I havent even used them to play the games yet, but I cant recommend them enough. Playing RB has given me a real taste for playing the drums and I can knock out some decent tunes. The feel and bounce of the pads is immense, and I'm so glad I went down the Roland route. Completely customisable, very user friendly, reliable, and damn sexy to look at!!!!

Keep your eyes open mate, like I said, I got mine in the local paper, which is probably a better place to look since people who want to sell local will advertise there over ebay! Good luck with it all mate!

[Bursar]

Originally Posted by Chrispyphillips

Playing RB has given me a real taste for playing the drums

I know what you mean. My Ions might not be in quite the same league as your kit, but wow, what a difference it makes to be playing on a 'proper' kit.

I find myself listening to the song as it plays so I can tell whether I should be hitting the cymbal or the pad when the yellow or green notes come down.

And today I've found myself looking at the TD-3 module. I really think I should leave that until after Christmas though... In the meantime, I might just find that little app that lets you plug your RB kit into a PC and play drums that way.

I've also been looking at Free Drum Lessons to pick up a few tips.

[Tufty McTavish]

Originally Posted by kismet110

Don't mind me asking but how much did the mesh replacement cost you?

To answer a question Chrispy asked me at the same time, I got it from Amazon.co.uk. GAK (or GuitarAmpKeyboard.com) list their wares via Amazon so you're using the Amazon shopping cart/address book but your goods come from a third party. There's no shipping charge for this item via the Amazon Marketplace so it came to a round £129 delivered. That's probably enough to horrify some folks but I absolutely love it to bits and am willing to invest in something I truly enjoy. I plan to flog the original tom on eBay to recover some of the cost.

I'd happily recommend GAK. I had a brief email exchange with one of their guys that was helpful. I'm not sure if postage was included if I'd ordered direct, but the ability to use my Amazon address book meant I avoided creating an account and got it delivered to the most appropriate delivery address. I like that a lot. I forgot to check if they're listed on Quidco though. When I got my Roland set I was able to save a fair few £££s by going through Quidco at another e-tailer.