[Vogon64]

My second Xbox 360 has just died with E73, 14 months after I bought it.

I am just about to get into a battle with Amazon under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (amended) asking for a free repair or replacement on the grounds that electronic equipment of this nature should reasonably last more than 14 months with normal usage.

So to add weight to my argument I am looking for some sort of documented statistics or expert opinion on how long a games console should last. Ideally this will be independent research from some suitably meritous organisation or maybe some sort of statistically backed up study rather than just stated opinion.

If anyone can help or point me to a suitable source then I would be very grateful - it might also enable all those other disappointed Xbox owners to get their machines fixed in similar circumstances.

Thanks in advance, I will of course keep the forum updated on progress.

[SteveU30]

TBH I don't think you need to look very far. Microsoft have by their own admission extended the warranty on the RRoD fault to 3 years. This would suggest that even the manufacturer believes it should last for 3 years.

Put this to Amazon and see what they say.

[dazza1011]

well i dont think there will be anything concrete that says how long a console should last but it should deffo last longer than 14 months.

if you paid for it on a credit card you will have a better chance of getting your cash back if Amazon point blank refuse

you say you are going into a battle with amazon have you rang them and what did they say ? or are you expecting a battle ?

an e73 error says there is a problem with the ethernet port

[silvercue]

this is why I always get my consoles from the high street - so much easier to return, even out of warranty.

There is a link in a thread somewhere on this forum with the stuff you need.

Can't recall where - sorry.

[willp2003]

well yours has lasted 6 months more than my 3

good luck with it

[cunners]

As far as I'm aware, under EU legislation, all electronic goods should last 2 years minimum. I'll see if I can find a link for you.

Here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cg...model=guichett

Check out Article 3 and Article 5 in particular.

"1. The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods. If, under national legislation, the rights laid down in Article 3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that period shall not expire within a period of two years from the time of delivery."

[mattclarkie]

Originally Posted by cunners

As far as I'm aware, under EU legislation, all electronic goods should last 2 years minimum. I'll see if I can find a link for you.

Here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=EN&n umdoc=31999L0044&model=guichett

Check out Article 3 and Article 5 in particular.

"1. The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods. If, under national legislation, the rights laid down in Article 3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that period shall not expire within a period of two years from the time of delivery."

But in the UK we haven't adopted that, we have the SOGA which means it must last 12months minimum, and then dependent on cost and product upto 6years.

If you pay £200+ for something it should last 3years minimum really.

[Vogon64]

Originally Posted by dazza1011

you say you are going into a battle with amazon have you rang them and what did they say ? or are you expecting a battle ?

Round 1: an amazon stock response saying "sorry its out of warranty, contact Microsoft"

I have contacted them again and am waiting to see if I can get past the first line of customer services!


As other people are aware, but Amazon are trying to deny, it is the sellers responsibility under the sale of goods act, not the manufacturer!

[Vogon64]

Originally Posted by silvercue

There is a link in a thread somewhere on this forum with the stuff you need.

Can't recall where - sorry.

Before I go searching, can anyone point me in the right direction?

[SteveU30]

Ok, your best source of info is here but basically you need to 'scare' Amazon into doing something for you.

This usually involves putting in writing that you intend to get an independant professional evaluation of the Xbox carried out and if it is found that there is an inherent fault then you will be returning the Xbox to them. Futhermore you will expect a repair/replace/refund (it is their decision which happens) to be carried out and you will expect them to cover all costs including the cost of carriage and the inspection you have forked out for (which they have to do under the SoG act).

You probably won't have to get it inspected as most retailers will understand you are serious simply by sending this letter and calling their bluff.

Please note that the law states that after 6 months of ownership it is the customers responsibility to prove an inherent fault, not the retailer.

Feel free to ask if you want any more info on the subject.

[AudioSlim]

Originally Posted by SteveU30

Ok, your best source of info is here but basically you need to 'scare' Amazon into doing something for you.

This usually involves putting in writing that you intend to get an independant professional evaluation of the Xbox carried out and if it is found that there is an inherent fault then you will be returning the Xbox to them. Futhermore you will expect a repair/replace/refund (it is their decision which happens) to be carried out and you will expect them to cover all costs including the cost of carriage and the inspection you have forked out for (which they have to do under the SoG act).

You probably won't have to get it inspected as most retailers will understand you are serious simply by sending this letter and calling their bluff.

Please note that the law states that after 6 months of ownership it is the customers responsibility to prove an inherent fault, not the retailer.

Feel free to ask if you want any more info on the subject.

And send your letter registered post to their registered UK office.
And state they have two weeks to respond before you will start court proceedings.

That should do the job.

Slim

[SteveU30]

Originally Posted by AudioSlim

And send your letter registered post to their registered UK office.
And state they have two weeks to respond before you will start court proceedings.

That should do the job.

Slim

Yep, what he said!!

[Gooner DK]

I did this last year with Woolies and my console packed up after 14 months like yours. Had to send several letters quoting 1979 SOGA and I threatened I would be taking them to the small claims court if they didnt comply.

The funny thing is my problem was a dodgy disk drive so I paid for the repair and Woolies agreed to refund me once I had done that. Microsoft took a month to repair it so I complained and got Gears of War and Viva Pinatta free a refund from Woolies of £85 and then Microsoft gave me a refund of £85 aswell even though I never had the ring of red, so happy days.

[Vogon64]

Originally Posted by AudioSlim

And send your letter registered post to their registered UK office.
And state they have two weeks to respond before you will start court proceedings.

That should do the job.

Slim

There is a problem... what is Amazon's UK Office address?

I have been communicating via email (so I have a record) but the only address I can find for Amazon is one for the parent company in Switzerland.


EDIT: have just found this one, anyone know if it correct?
Amazon.co.uk Ltd
Patriot Court
1-9 The Grove
Slough
SL1 1QP

[Vogon64]

Originally Posted by SteveU30

Ok, your best source of info is here but basically you need to 'scare' Amazon into doing something for you.

I have pretty much done that, except for the fact that without a Uk postal address I am limited to communicating via email with the "standard" poor customer services people... I ahve asked for contact details of someone in authority but no response yet.

[knight2000uk]

If you require to know what the problem is with your xbox causing E73 it is caused by a cold solder joint under the Southbridge or the ethernet chip, if its got to hot it may have even dropped a capacitor or resistor off the bottom of the board.
Also if the GPU has lost a bga contact that leads to the ethernet/southbridge this also causes the afformentioned error.

Stu

[AudioSlim]

Originally Posted by Vogon64

I have pretty much done that, except for the fact that without a Uk postal address I am limited to communicating via email with the "standard" poor customer services people... I ahve asked for contact details of someone in authority but no response yet.

Search companies house for their registered office if your struggling.
They have to have one!

Slim

Edit, the site is down at the moment, try later.

[SteveU30]

Originally Posted by Vogon64

There is a problem... what is Amazon's UK Office address?

I have been communicating via email (so I have a record) but the only address I can find for Amazon is one for the parent company in Switzerland.


EDIT: have just found this one, anyone know if it correct?
Amazon.co.uk Ltd
Patriot Court
1-9 The Grove
Slough
SL1 1QP

According to Wikipedia here the address in slough is for their Software development centre. Also listed is the fulfillment and warehousing centre in Bedfordshire which according to Pricerunner here the address is:

Amazon.co.uk
Ridgmont
Bedford
MK43 0XP

You can either take your pick, write to both or wait until the companies house webcheck service is back up and running.

[SteveU30]

Ok found the thread on here that was mentioned before with all the help and advice, it's here

[Graham27]

Have you tried just contacting MS?!

Whilst it is indeed the retailers responsibility, sometimes it's just simpler and quicker dealing directly with the manufacturer yourself

[SteveU30]

Originally Posted by Graham27

Have you tried just contacting MS?!

Whilst it is indeed the retailers responsibility, sometimes it's just simpler and quicker dealing directly with the manufacturer yourself

It's unlikely he'll get anywhere as MS are renowned for declining any repairs other than for the RRoD fault after the 12 month period.

A lot of screaming and shouting may get you somewhere with them but if you're going to do that then you may as well direct it all at the retailer who you actually have more clout with legally.

[kopchoir]

Amazon are renowned for being a set of cocks when it comes to returns and customer service and you could be at this for a while, you could always book it in with ms and get it repaired and tell them it has the RROD 2 of my friends have done this and had their consoles returned fixed

as our graham once said The decision is yours

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by SteveU30

It's unlikely he'll get anywhere as MS are renowned for declining any repairs other than for the RRoD fault after the 12 month period.

Well, they don't so much as decline to repair as charge you 78.20 for the pleasure. I got nowhere with my retailer (link), so I'm taking them to small claims court to get my repair money back.

[Vogon64]

Originally Posted by SteveU30

According to Wikipedia here the address in slough is for their Software development centre. Also listed is the fulfillment and warehousing centre in Bedfordshire which according to Pricerunner here the address is:

Amazon.co.uk
Ridgmont
Bedford
MK43 0XP

You can either take your pick, write to both or wait until the companies house webcheck service is back up and running.

I have had an email from the "executive complaints dept" or something similar. based in Ireland. They also provided a snailmail address so I shall write to them there. (I'll post the address when I get back on my email).

[Vogon64]

Originally Posted by Graham27

Have you tried just contacting MS?!

Whilst it is indeed the retailers responsibility, sometimes it's just simpler and quicker dealing directly with the manufacturer yourself

yes... they said thanks, just send us £80 + vat and we'll sort it. They also said that their system would not allow them to book in a repair for a console out of warranty without a credit card to charge.

[Vogon64]

does anyone have any advice as to my involving my credit card company - I understand that they are jointly liable.

Could I get them on my side to presure Amazon OR
could I just get my money off them?

[SteveU30]

Originally Posted by Vogon64

does anyone have any advice as to my involving my credit card company - I understand that they are jointly liable.

Could I get them on my side to presure Amazon OR
could I just get my money off them?

Yes they are jointly liable, you'll probably have more luck with them I would imagine. I would send the same letter that you would send to Amazon to them also and just go with whoever seems to be helping you the quickest.

[Vogon64]

I have just had an email saying that they have passed my complaint to the Amazon Legal Department for review.

So making some progress, but its now me against the hordes of legal eagles that Amazon must surely employ. I reckon to just pay me would cost less than an hour of some legal persons charge rate - perhaps they will see sense.

[SteveU30]

I think they would be daft to decline this as they should well know the 360s reliability rate.

They may try and counter-call your bluff by saying go ahead and get the report but I doubt it as they would almost certainly end up having to pay for the report, the repair and shipping costs etc...

[Vogon64]

Well, the legal eagles have now asked if I have the RROD, and if so go away and send the box to Microsoft.

I replied to the contrary and quoted the list of potential causes (as earlier in the thread) and requested that they get on with it...

I wait with baited breath for the next installment.