[Munkey Boy]

Friday January 23 2009
After 3 happy years of 360 ownership, it's finally come to me, my 360 has given up the ghost. I know it's a bit self-important of me to make a new thread about this just for myself, but having written the FAQ at the top of this forum some time ago, it's finally time for me to put it into practice.

I thought I'd start this thread as a kind of diary of how long the process takes and the hoops I have to jump through, so people can follow it and see if they want to do the same. I'm going all the way to small claims court if I have to, so it could be an interesting trip!

I've got an Elite, bought in Sept 2007, and while messing about in Liberty City, the colour palette went very strange, and when I tried to reboot I got nothing, no image at all. Tried HDMI and VGA on 2x TVs, no image, no error message. It's obviously out of warranty with Microsoft (16 months old), and I understand I'm liable for a £60-70 charge if I go to MS, so I'm taking it up with HMV in-store for a free repair or replacement.

Tuesday January 27 2009
1400
I've registered my console online at Xbox.com, it returns as out of warranty, so I phoned the HMV where I bought it from (£299.99 in Sept 07) to see if I could bring it in for a repair or replacement. The reply: HMV ask that customers go to Microsoft after 12 months. I informed him I had but I preferred to use my legal right to go to my retailer, so he said it was HMV policy not to take it for a repair or replacement after 12 months and offered me a phone number for their central customer services.

Customer services repeat the same line, even implying they work closely with Trading Standards to stay within the law and they are happy that they have no responsibility after 12 months (my wife is a Trading Standards Officer by the way, so I knew this wasn't true). I ask for an email address, so I can get this in writing, email to follow.

(By the way, I'm lucky enough to own 2x 360s, if anyone's wondering why I'm still online!)

1500
Email sent to HMV customer services:

Dear HMV,

I purchased an Xbox 360 Elite console at your store in XXXXXXXXXX in Greater Manchester on XX September 2007 for a price of £299.99. On the 23 January 2009 while playing a game, the image on screen became distorted with various garish colours, and upon rebooting the console, the Xbox 360 would no longer display an image on the screen. I tested the console with a different video cable (I have tested both HDMI and VGA), and even on a different TV with both cables. In all circumstances, the Xbox 360 failed to produce an image or any sign of an error message.

On contacting Microsoft, I was informed that my console was no longer in their 12 month warranty period for such faults, and I would be liable for a charge of up to £70 to repair my console.

Today, 27 January 2009 I contacted the HMV branch by phone, as the retailer responsible under the requirements of the Sale of Goods Act 1979, to request a repair or replacement in their store, as the console purchased (taking in to consideration the cost, period lapsed and apparently terminal, inherent [?] fault) is clearly not of satisfactory quality.

I was informed by a member of staff (XXXXXXXX) that it is HMV policy not to offer a repair or replacement to customers with faulty goods after 12 months, but instead I should contact Microsoft for this service. I informed the sales representative of the fact I already had, but I would be charged for the repair, so I referred him to my statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to receive a repair or replacement from the retailer. The sales representative denied that the Sale of Goods Act or similar legislation held any legally binding role for HMV after the 12 month warranty period however. This is not correct, as under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, it is the retailer who is legally responsible for faulty goods and there is no 12 month time limit.

I telephoned your central customer services phone line and held a virtually identical conversation with another HMV employee, who failed to provide any contact details, but they offered me this email address.

As a very regular customer of HMV, I am therefore exercising my statutory rights by requesting in writing that as the retailer of the faulty Xbox 360, HMV repair or replace the console, free of charge to myself, and within a reasonable time period (if you choose to offer a repair).

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.

Regards,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

We'll see what they say!

1700
Got an email response already from HMV:

Dear XXXXXXXXXXX,

I am writing in reply to your email regarding your out of warranty faulty Xbox console.

As the sales of goods act is applicable in a court of law, we are not obliged to offer a replacement, refund or repair at store level and so all members of staff you have spoken to have dealt with your query to the best of their ability.

If you are requesting for us to offer you any further service you will need to forward a hard copy of your email to the following address to be dealt with and considered;

Senior Customer Service agent
hmv Customer Service
Film House
142 Wardour Street
London
W1F 8LN

May I thank you for taking the time to write to us for a resolution to your issue.

Kindest regards,

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Which in shorthand is meaningless waffle attempting to put me off. It'll take more than that! So, printed off the email with slight amendments and will send registered post tomorrow.

An interesting document regarding central government advice to retailers on their legal obligations.

Wednesday January 28 2009
Letter posted recorded delivery (text identical to email).

Saturday February 7 2009
Letter recieved from HMV declaring no responsibility for console out of warranty.

Monday February 9 2009
Applied on Xbox.com for an out-of-warranty repair of the Xbox 360. Charged £78.20.

Write letter to HMV declaring my intention to take them to small claims court to recover the £78.20.

Wednesday February 11 2009
Arranged collection by UPS.

Thursday February 12 2009
Collected by UPS.

Tuesday February 17 2009
Repaired by MS in Germany, waiting for collection by UPS.

[Munkey Boy]

Email sent to HMV customer services:

Dear HMV,

I purchased an Xbox 360 Elite console at your store in XXXXXXXXXX in Greater Manchester on XX September 2007 for a price of £299.99. On the 23 January 2009 while playing a game, the image on screen became distorted with various garish colours, and upon rebooting the console, the Xbox 360 would no longer display an image on the screen. I tested the console with a different video cable (I have tested both HDMI and VGA), and even on a different TV with both cables. In all circumstances, the Xbox 360 failed to produce an image or any sign of an error message.

On contacting Microsoft, I was informed that my console was no longer in their 12 month warranty period for such faults, and I would be liable for a charge of up to £70 to repair my console.

Today, 27 January 2009 I contacted the HMV branch by phone, as the retailer responsible under the requirements of the Sale of Goods Act 1979, to request a repair or replacement in their store, as the console purchased (taking in to consideration the cost, period lapsed and apparently terminal, inherent [?] fault) is clearly not of satisfactory quality.

I was informed by a member of staff (XXXXXXXX) that it is HMV policy not to offer a repair or replacement to customers with faulty goods after 12 months, but instead I should contact Microsoft for this service. I informed the sales representative of the fact I already had, but I would be charged for the repair, so I referred him to my statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to receive a repair or replacement from the retailer. The sales representative denied that the Sale of Goods Act or similar legislation held any legally binding role for HMV after the 12 month warranty period however. This is not correct, as under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, it is the retailer who is legally responsible for faulty goods and there is no 12 month time limit.

I telephoned your central customer services phone line and held a virtually identical conversation with another HMV employee, who failed to provide any contact details, but they offered me this email address.

As a very regular customer of HMV, I am therefore exercising my statutory rights by requesting in writing that as the retailer of the faulty Xbox 360, HMV repair or replace the console, free of charge to myself, and within a reasonable time period (if you choose to offer a repair).

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.

Regards,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

We'll see what they say!

[Craigy]

Good luck, thought you bought one launch day though?

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by Craigy

Good luck, thought you bought one launch day though?

I did, but I upgraded in Sept 07 to an Elite and sold my old one on eBay.

Got an email response already from HMV:

Dear XXXXXXXXXXX,

I am writing in reply to your email regarding your out of warranty faulty Xbox console.

As the sales of goods act is applicable in a court of law, we are not obliged to offer a replacement, refund or repair at store level and so all members of staff you have spoken to have dealt with your query to the best of their ability.

If you are requesting for us to offer you any further service you will need to forward a hard copy of your email to the following address to be dealt with and considered;

Senior Customer Service agent
hmv Customer Service
Film House
142 Wardour Street
London
W1F 8LN

May I thank you for taking the time to write to us for a resolution to your issue.

Kindest regards,

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Which in shorthand is meaningless waffle attempting to put me off. It'll take more than that! So, printed off the email with slight amendments and will send registered post tomorrow.

[MeTrek8000]

Can't you make it give you the RRoD using the towel trick?

Who needs 3 xbox 360's?

[Bilbob]

Good effort Munkey, was going to go the same way when my elite RRoD'd on me 2 weeks ago, but unfortunately I bought it from Zavvi so I had to go the MS route... Should be back with me tomorrow, when I will unfortunately, be out !

I will update as to what I get back when I see it!

Good luck, although to be honest, I reckon they will cave.

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by MeTrek8000

Can't you make it give you the RRoD using the towel trick?

Who needs 3 xbox 360's?

I could, but it's much more fun this way! (and legal )

Originally Posted by Bilbob

Good effort Munkey, was going to go the same way when my elite RRoD'd on me 2 weeks ago, but unfortunately I bought it from Zavvi so I had to go the MS route... Should be back with me tomorrow, when I will unfortunately, be out !

I will update as to what I get back when I see it!

Good luck, although to be honest, I reckon they will cave.

Ouch, unlucky! It's 50-50 as to whether they'll grant me the repair/replacement or make me go to small claims. But I'm pretty sure there's not a chance I'll pay a penny!

An interesting document regarding central government advice to retailers on their legal obligations.

[Synax_Injector]

Mate my 3 year old xbox broke last week and the 3 years RROD warranty runs out in Feb...It didn't have 3 red rings, but I lied and said it did to see if they would repair it, nothing to lose right.

Well, since last wed (so 6 days) they have picked up my xbox, repaired it and added 3 months warranty to it and sent it back to me, they have even supplied me with a UPS tracking number.
So it took just 1 week to repair and send back my xbox, impressive by anyone's standards.

[leeb]

Must be the day for them as I just got the RROD!

Luckily my console is only 10 months old so it's off to Game I go....

Will keep checking on your progress though Munkey Boy. Good luck with it!

[benmango]

Originally Posted by Synax_Injector

They have picked up my xbox, repaired it and added 3 months warranty to it and sent it back to me

Quick question regarding the warranty - my 14 month old 360 has just been sent to MS for RROD. Bearing in mind the warranty for RROD is 3 years (so 36 months), when I get it back will I still have 22 months of warranty for it against RROD or just 3 months?

[RottenFox]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

even implying they work closely with Trading Standards

..the only reason that is, is because Trading Standard office is probably about 3 doors along the street from them..

hope you get some joy at least..i'm into double figures with the 360's i have had, and the last one came from the administrators/headquarters of zavvi,when i was supposed to go and pick one up from my local store,supposed to be there waiting for me, but when i got there..nothing..so i threw a tantrum instore,as it was pre-arranged,and they delivered another
......but, it must have been used as a football, as it has dotted lines on the screen,when i play games,so its just as bad as the original.!

so i'll have to send it off for repair,i guess,but i did get a new receipt(not that its worth much,i guess)

[Bilbob]

Originally Posted by benmango

Quick question regarding the warranty - my 14 month old 360 has just been sent to MS for RROD. Bearing in mind the warranty for RROD is 3 years (so 36 months), when I get it back will I still have 22 months of warranty for it against RROD or just 3 months?

22 months for RRoD, 3 months for everything else

[Synax_Injector]

What Bilbob said above mate.

Originally Posted by benmango

Quick question regarding the warranty - my 14 month old 360 has just been sent to MS for RROD. Bearing in mind the warranty for RROD is 3 years (so 36 months), when I get it back will I still have 22 months of warranty for it against RROD or just 3 months?

[rai80]

This must be Sept 07 Elite dying week cos mine went on Monday.

UPS man just left with it saying "another Xbox"

[Pooon]

Nice one Munkey, guess it helps when the missus knows her stuff

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by Pooon

Nice one Munkey, guess it helps when the missus knows her stuff

Someone's got to, right?!

[Craigy]

Any word back yet MB?

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by Craigy

Any word back yet MB?

Nothing yet (though I haven't got today's post yet), gave them 14 days to respond, 7 gone.

[Munkey Boy]

OK, quick update - got a letter from HMV on Saturday and the long and short of it is they've told me to go to MS and pay for my repair. Which I'm going to do - and then take HMV to small claims court to recover the cost of that repair.

I'm going to reply to the letter informing HMV of my intentions, meanwhile arranging the repair via Xbox.com. Disappointing they've done this, but at least we get to see how the court system works now!

[Bilbob]

They've actually TOLD you to take them to court???????!!!

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by Bilbob

They've actually TOLD you to take them to court???????!!!

Sorry, I realise I've phrased my previous post badly. They (HMV) said because my console is out of warranty they are not willing to repair, replace or refund (it'll be clear when I post the letter tonight). HMV have basically said they want no more part of this.

So I've paid the £78.20 to MS now for the repair, and I'll be taking HMV to small claims to recover that cost. Hope that makes more sense!

[Officer M168]

Good on ya Munkey !

[shagaboopon]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

Sorry, I realise I've phrased my previous post badly. They (HMV) said because my console is out of warranty they are not willing to repair, replace or refund (it'll be clear when I post the letter tonight). HMV have basically said they want no more part of this.

So I've paid the £78.20 to MS now for the repair, and I'll be taking HMV to small claims to recover that cost. Hope that makes more sense!

I sincerely hope you win not only your costs for repair back but compensation for the messing around getting them to honour their obligations under the SOGA.

[Munkey Boy]

Originally Posted by shagaboopon

I sincerely hope you win not only your costs for repair back but compensation for the messing around getting them to honour their obligations under the SOGA.

We'll see, there's no guarantees, and I'm going to have to scour the internet to try and prove the fault is inherent - in other words, it's happened to lots of other people.

Am I right in thinking that MS provide a description of the fault when they return your 360? What I need to do then is see how many people I can find with a similar fault to prove it's a problem with the 360 in general as that will strengthen my case. (Any links/help anyone can provide me in this respect would be much appreciated!).

Anyone else had their 360 go funny colours and then just refuse to produce a picture when they reboot? (I'm guessing there's loads, but I've yet to search on it)

[mattclarkie]

Originally Posted by Munkey Boy

We'll see, there's no guarantees, and I'm going to have to scour the internet to try and prove the fault is inherent - in other words, it's happened to lots of other people.

Am I right in thinking that MS provide a description of the fault when they return your 360? What I need to do then is see how many people I can find with a similar fault to prove it's a problem with the 360 in general as that will strengthen my case. (Any links/help anyone can provide me in this respect would be much appreciated!).

Anyone else had their 360 go funny colours and then just refuse to produce a picture when they reboot? (I'm guessing there's loads, but I've yet to search on it)

MS give you a checklist, it says something like

Motherboard
DVD Drive
Some other stuff.

They tick what they replaced on your console, generally it is Motherboard or Motherboard and DVD-ROM.

They don't actually say what was wrong with the console, just what was replaced to fix it.


I've still got to fire my letter off to Comet, and my console was still in the 12months with exactly the fault you had.

Psychodelic 360, after reboot no more picture via HDMI or Component.

[Munkey Boy]

Wow, didn't even take 5 minutes to find a similar fault, thanks. The evidence starts here!

[benmango]

Good luck to ya Monkeyboy!

I'm sure you'll find looooads of similar complaints out there on the world wide web - so hopefully not too much trouble in proving it's an inherent fault, but I guess you'll see.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes though - again, best of luck

[Munkey Boy]

Well, here's the letter I got from HMV. Writing response now.

[mattclarkie]

Similar to what I got from Comet, they deny the SOGA responsibilty, only my console was only 11months old.

These retailers need to be taken to court and made to realise they are actually by law responsible to serve their customers.


Good on you for sticking it to the man.

[Craigy]

Is that where the screen goes all bright chess board like?

Thats what I had and got the 3 red lights after a reboot.