[thetonyclifton]

I believe him makes sense to me!

Originally Posted by StooMonster

Clarification: SiI504 simply 'bob's video material (which is what vast marjority of LCDs/plasma displays will do too). When I mentioned motion adaptive and motion compensationed deinterlacing for video material, I meant other chipsets.

Simply put, 480p produces twice as many pixels as 480i or 576i.

Your display -- no matter if it has Silicon Image, Faroudja, Gennum, Silicon Optix or Anchor Bay Technology deinterlacing chipsets (some of those are the state-of-the-art ones) -- will not "deinterlace" as good a picture from 480i/576i as feeding it 480p from Wii.

StooMonster

[Gold Feet]

Whatever the technical details going on, there is no difference between 480i and 480p via component on my Gamecube and Samsung R7 LCD, if anything the 576i games look better, and the colours on the Wii are perfect via composite, the people with crap composite seem to be running either 50" plus screens, or an unmentionable brand. But yet the arguments continue in several different threads like we all have the same TVs
I'll take an extra game or controller over a component cable until the prices are reduced a bit.
If you want a pin sharp perfect picture then use a CRT VGA monitor...end of.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by StooMonster

1. film - for 24/25 frames per second film source material, 50/60 fields per second are weaved together to create frames (using 3:2/2:2 pulldown and inverse telecine).

2. video - for 50/60 fields per second video source material, where alternate lines are calculated (deinterlaced) via various methodologies (from simple 'bob' through motion adaptive or motion conpensative).

3. graphics / game - for 50/60 field per second video/computer game source material, either passes as 720 x 240/288 fields or 'bob's them (simply display each line twice).

I believe that I know what I am taking about. Are you really sure you do?

No I am not sure what I am talking about, as I have already stated

So in cases 1 & 2 it supports what I am saying, but in example 3 it doesn't and you are saying that the Wii gets flagged up like that? How does the telly know that it is graphics and/or a game? How does it know to weave a movie but not weave a game?

[booth1976]

Originally Posted by StooMonster

Clarification: SiI504 simply 'bob's video material (which is what vast marjority of LCDs/plasma displays will do too). When I mentioned motion adaptive and motion compensationed deinterlacing for video material, I meant other chipsets.

Simply put, 480p produces twice as many pixels as 480i or 576i.

Your display -- no matter if it has Silicon Image, Faroudja, Gennum, Silicon Optix or Anchor Bay Technology deinterlacing chipsets (some of those are the state-of-the-art ones) -- will not "deinterlace" as good a picture from 480i/576i as feeding it 480p from Wii.

Stoo is correct...

With 480p you're dealing with progressive frames... With 480i you're dealing with 2 fields at half the resolution (2 consecutive fields of 240tvl) of a progressive frame. As LCD/Plasma's are progressive devices they don't deal with field based material as well as progressive frames.

Also if there's a very bad deinterlacer in the LCD, like Stoo said it might just miss a field out leaving you with a resolution of 240tvl!

Original Xbox into my LCD via composite is unbearable. Via component (at 480p) it's much better. And I'd bet money that the Wii will be the same.

Wish they'd have allowed it to output at 720p though!

[SeaneyC]

Finally people who are talking sense instead of me hitting my head against a wall trying to tell BonzoBanana 480P > 576i

Still awaiting delivery of my component cables, I expect the difference between 480P and composite 576i on my plasma to be immense. Not to mention i'll be able to play on my projector too then :D

[addyb]

Originally Posted by SeaneyC

Finally people who are talking sense instead of me hitting my head against a wall trying to tell BonzoBanana 480P > 576i

Still awaiting delivery of my component cables, I expect the difference between 480P and composite 576i on my plasma to be immense. Not to mention i'll be able to play on my projector too then :D

What projector you got? I have an hitachi tx100 and wii games look great on it!

[SeaneyC]

Oh no, that's not the issue, just the only run of cable i have is component to my Sanyo Z3! Come on Ninty, just forked out over £250 for this stupid component switcher and cabling for my projector and PS2, where's my cable for the Wii! Given current recent "nin-farce-do" events, i expect to see a cable with digital out before i even see this stupid component cable!! (haha if only, my Wii is the only item of equipment i own currently hooked up using analogue, tres annoying.)

[shagaboopon]

No digital output capability on the Wii I believe, just wanted to clear up the statement even if it was a tongue in cheek comment

[zz101]

So has anyone actually tried both a component and RGB cable??

[SeaneyC]

Originally Posted by shagaboopon

No digital output capability on the Wii I believe, just wanted to clear up the statement even if it was a tongue in cheek comment

Indeed, it was tongue in cheek. I know we're all really waiting for Ninty to surprise us with the USB 2.0 soundcard for 7.1 surround on the Wii. Haha!

Seriously though, what are they going to be used for? Suggestions please.

[TransientWolf]

Stoo - you are right of course regarding the half field resolution which I had forgotton.

I still stand by what I said though - whilst the component will be better I don't think in the real world it is enough for the 'hype' around people wailing about not having the component cables, and certainly not to justify paying the £50+ prices some people want for these on ebay!!!

Of course until I get one of each and actually compare who knows!

[davidcharles]

zz101...

i bought rgb and component yesterday.....neither has made THAT much difference.....sorry...

rgb made the colours a bit better and text in games looks a bit crisper
component made colours better as well and in 480p text is even crisper BUT it shows up the jaggies more as well...

i have found the best picture to be 480i ....it looks just as crisp as 576i and hides the jaggies a bit...

i am sure people will have different results on different tv's....

they are both far too expensive for what they do as well......

[StooMonster]

Originally Posted by TransientWolf

whilst the component will be better I don't think in the real world it is enough for the 'hype' around people wailing about not having the component cables, and certainly not to justify paying the £50+ prices some people want for these on ebay!!!

Yep, there are some mad prices.

Fact is 480p has twice the picture information as 480i/576i -- and should look better.

However, all progressive displays (LCDs and plasmas) have different processing ... from cheap rubbish that does nasty things to signals through to expensive chipset from named brands that will make 480i look pretty similar (but not identical to) 480p output from Wii.

Some people might not like the results of 480p, like davidcharles above who prefers the lowest resolution signal and a bit of blurring to reduce "jaggies". Although displays with different scaling algorithms could result in no jaggies with 480p anyway; again, it's all down to the display's processing.

StooMonster

[shagaboopon]

Still waiting on my component cable but on my PS2 using the component cable I get a lot better picture than scart or composite. Also when I play guitar Hero 2 when I enable the progressive scan the picture is twice as good again although as people have stated it does highlight the jaggies more as there is no blur and its a lot sharper image.

My guess is the debate here is split in 2 different directions, there is no argument the picture quality through 480p component is better by a mile, the problem that people saying it doesn't look as good as 480i or 576i is not down to picture quality but the perceived image quality. When displaying in 480i and 576i I believe the poor picture quality is hiding some of the defects which is causing people to believe it looks better, in actual fact it is just a more blurred less clear image they are looking at.

This is just my opinion but seems the only reason why anyone could say component isn't as good, unless the component cable and or TV of people who say otherwise is very poor quality.

[finalfight]

Originally Posted by shagaboopon

Still waiting on my component cable but on my PS2 using the component cable I get a lot better picture than scart or composite. Also when I play guitar Hero 2 when I enable the progressive scan the picture is twice as good again although as people have stated it does highlight the jaggies more as there is no blur and its a lot sharper image.

My guess is the debate here is split in 2 different directions, there is no argument the picture quality through 480p component is better by a mile, the problem that people saying it doesn't look as good as 480i or 576i is not down to picture quality but the perceived image quality. When displaying in 480i and 576i I believe the poor picture quality is hiding some of the defects which is causing people to believe it looks better, in actual fact it is just a more blurred less clear image they are looking at.

This is just my opinion but seems the only reason why anyone could say component isn't as good, unless the component cable and or TV of people who say otherwise is very poor quality.

It's not that that it isn't as good, its just that the difference is not as prominant as say running an Xbox 360 on composite or RGB before switching to HD componant at 720p or 1080i. Whilst the difference with the 360 was literally night and day, with the Wii the diffrence is pretty negligible. Yes componant is better than RGB and RGB is better than composite but to the eye the differences regarding the Wii's RGB and componant outputs are pretty minimal regardless of tech specs.

[Bigmonty69]

Originally Posted by finalfight

It's not that that it isn't as good, its just that the difference is not as prominant as say running an Xbox 360 on composite or RGB before switching to HD componant at 720p or 1080i. Whilst the diffrence with the 360 was literally night and day, with the Wii the diffrence is pretty negligible. Yes componant is better than RGB and RGB is better than composite but to the eye the differences regarding the Wii's RGB and componant outputs are pretty minimal regardless of tech specs.

I have to disagree. I had my Wii set to 480i with composite then got a Game component cable and changed to 480p. I have to say the difference is pretty significant on my 42" Panasonic plasma!

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bigmonty69

I have to disagree. I had my Wii set to 480i with composite then got a Game component cable and changed to 480p. I have to say the difference is pretty significant on my 42" Panasonic plasma!

Yeah but the difference between 480i & 576i is massive - looks great at 576i via composite, but awful via 480i via composite. I'm sure that component will be better again (something wrong if it isn't) but 576i is pretty good IMO.

[StooMonster]

...and so we slip back from objective (data) to subjective (opinion) comment.

If double the amount of video data doesn't look better on your display, you know what the problem is...

StooMonster

[Gold Feet]

Originally Posted by StooMonster

...and so we slip back from objective (data) to subjective (opinion) comment.

If double the amount of video data doesn't look better on your display, you know what the problem is...

StooMonster

yeah, its not a VGA CRT that can handle lower res signals better than any LCD or Plasma

[Zebadee69]

I have to agree with Bigmonty69, I thought the composite cable was pretty good until I bought a componant cable. The shimmering has gone and it's brightened everything up.

[w3dal]

Originally Posted by Peterm69

I have to agree with Bigmonty69, I thought the composite cable was pretty good until I bought a componant cable. The shimmering has gone and it's brightened everything up.

I Agree too. Got a component cable today and its looks fantastic on 480p much better than composite. Dont know about RGB but decided on component over RGB this time purely because thats the only way i can get progressive out of the Wii and on my Panny plasma it looks stunning. Well worth the 20 quid.

Dal

[finalfight]

Originally Posted by Bigmonty69

I have to disagree. I had my Wii set to 480i with composite then got a Game component cable and changed to 480p. I have to say the difference is pretty significant on my 42" Panasonic plasma!

Disagree with what exactly? I never stated the composite cable was any good or compared it to anything else. In fact you are agreeing with the point I made about upgrading from composite to componant, although I was refering to the 360.

Regarding the Wii I said the difference between the Wii RGB and componant on a decent set, though visable was not exactly earth-shattering.

Everyone knows composite is the work of the devil.

=============================================
There's opinion and opinionated, objective and objectionable.

[Hissing_Sid]

I know this might not be the place to ask this but since my question is loosely connected to the Wii component cable; and since a few knowledgable people seem to be hanging round the thread I'll give it a try.

Thing is I bought a JVC 42 inch Plasma last spring. It is not a HD ready jobby. However having had a proper read through the manual in anticipation of connecting the Wii, I've come across a few confusing things. Although it's not HD ready the manual says that I can get 625p, 525p, 1125i and 750p through one of my ext using component. It says these are HD signals and yet the TV is a non-HD ready jobby as already stated. And most of the posts concerning HD around here commonly refer to 720p, 1080i etc, and not the numbers above which come from my manual....Me confused. Will the Wii be able to use any of these when I connect it through this ext using component? Since my TV manual doesn't say it has 480, but has the ones I've written above....

Once again apologies for the seemingly off topic questions but I'm not very up to date with all this TV signal malarkey, and my use of the search function doesnt seem to answer my specific question.

Cheers....

[Bigmonty69]

Tried the RGB today after borrowing from a mate. Difference between that and component is quite significant also. It had a lot of the blurry image that the composite had. Think I'll stick with component.

[TransientWolf]

Originally Posted by StooMonster

...and so we slip back from objective (data) to subjective (opinion) comment.

If double the amount of video data doesn't look better on your display, you know what the problem is...

StooMonster

Stoo - am I misleading myself here - please help.

Although in interlaced mode it is sending half the resolution per even and odd field, the display is still combining that information into one field of full data isn't it.

So it isn't that there is only half resolution being displayed (or 'twice the amount of video data' being sent) (some people are saying "twice as good" ) but that any change in the picture information across two consecutive frames gets baked into the then progressive frame displayed, which is therefore likely to show more artefacts, particularly motion artefacts?

Please reassure me when I crack this Wii out on Xmas day I am not running it at "half" resolution and I don't need to go and spend a fortune on a cable just yet!

[JagoPlasma]

actually stoo, even tho 480p does give you a higher framerate, and more pixels per second, 576i is still i higher resolution.

think about someone flashing a torch thru a window, with 480i the window is smaller than 576i so nomatter how many times you open and shut that window the 576i will catch more of the light in any one frame.
but because the 480p window opens and shuts over 2x faster the torch is actually brighter you just dont see as much of the beam

and with an always on progressive display, the light always stays on at full intensity anyway so 576i will look more detailed but 480p will run smoother, no difference in brightness at all

the only bonus of 480p is much smoother video (if the game actually runs at 60fps that is) not better resolution

[JonStatt]

Originally Posted by Hissing_Sid

I know this might not be the place to ask this but since my question is loosely connected to the Wii component cable; and since a few knowledgable people seem to be hanging round the thread I'll give it a try.

Thing is I bought a JVC 42 inch Plasma last spring. It is not a HD ready jobby. However having had a proper read through the manual in anticipation of connecting the Wii, I've come across a few confusing things. Although it's not HD ready the manual says that I can get 625p, 525p, 1125i and 750p through one of my ext using component. It says these are HD signals and yet the TV is a non-HD ready jobby as already stated. And most of the posts concerning HD around here commonly refer to 720p, 1080i etc, and not the numbers above which come from my manual....Me confused. Will the Wii be able to use any of these when I connect it through this ext using component? Since my TV manual doesn't say it has 480, but has the ones I've written above....

Once again apologies for the seemingly off topic questions but I'm not very up to date with all this TV signal malarkey, and my use of the search function doesnt seem to answer my specific question.

Cheers....

First of all HD Ready is not just about resolution. It is also about the connectivity. THe HD Ready sticker requires an HDMI connection. So TVs that are HD panels, and support HD signals, cannot have the sticker if they only have a component or DVI connection.

I would have thought the JVC would have no issues with 720p, 1080i and probably also 480p. You will just have to try it and see!

[CAS FAN]

What I don't get is why we don't just have 576p - surely better all round! Why must we reduce down to 480 when going progressive?

[SeaneyC]

480P works for me! In fact, apart from the Sharp Aquos TVs that are Pal progressive native (and even those are only 540P IIRC), i can't think of any SD Plasmas or LCDs that would benefit from 576P as most of them are 480 line displays, a legacy of the NTSC market i assume, and the fact that 480 lines is standard VGA resolution.

[JagoPlasma]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

What I don't get is why we don't just have 576p - surely better all round! Why must we reduce down to 480 when going progressive?

would be good wouldnt it, but it'd be compromised, it'd either be 50hz or the actual framerate would suffer

besides, its not like nintendo to give europe something better or even on par to other countries