[vince_vega]

hi there, as the title says discuss. pros and cons of each! i have the phone and broadband with telewest and if i switch from sky+ i will save around £38 a month plus i will be able to watch a little bit of hi-def on my hitach 42PD7200 without having to spend £300 plus an a box from sky! should i or shouldnt i?

[Ultra2man]

No discuaaion required if like me you do not live in a Telewest area.
Not all of us will have the choice.

[vince_vega]

good point! but £38 quid is alot of cash to throw away each month!

[dazzafact]

Originally Posted by Ultra2man

No discuaaion required if like me you do not live in a Telewest area.
Not all of us will have the choice.

Great help mate!! I think, and its only what ive picked up from these kinds of forum; that telewest is inferior in its quality, mpeg2 and mpeg4; I also think that the majority of its content at the mo is being upscaled from sd. I think the best thing to do if your not committed to either is to wait a month or two to get a true review of sky hd. Everything is just conjecture at the mo! If you search for the telewest hd thingy on here you should get a feel for how that is at its early stages!!

[vince_vega]

but i point blank refuse to shell out £300 quid and then another tenner on top of my sky subs to watch a bit of hi def! i can watch hi def when i want on telewests pay per view, granted there might not be the choice of programmes but it will get better over time.

[Attu]

Originally Posted by vince_vega

granted there might not be the choice of programmes but it will get better over time.

But how much time ?, for me I see the telewest box as very good if you want a PVR with its 3 tuners etc but as for HD i think SkyHD will be alot better as its got the lions shair of the HD content.
If you going for this thing just for HD then SkyHD is the better option, if you want it for general TV and as a PVR then the Telewest system for the price is hard to beet.

Andy

[br14n]

I done exactly what your thinking of doing Vince and the TVD is a good bit of kit and as you said im saving money. Sure the TVD has a few teething issues most of which will be rectified by a download mid april. Sure sky will have more HD to start but Telewest will get more in time and at less monthly subs. I wouldnt let the fact that Telewest use mpeg2 put you off as the HD ive seen so far has been excellent. They've both got good and bad points IMO.

[Karma]

I think you are right. There will be teething problems on both systems for a while.

I'm lucky, I live in a Telewest area. They are currently running a campaign that asks "Here's 10 reasons to change to TVDrive from Sky+, Give us 1 good reason not to!"

I contacted them, having been a Sky customer for 15 years, to point out that a TV eye gave me Sky+ with full remote control in two rooms (albeit that only one programme could be watched).

They came back with the answer that for £10 extra a month - the equivalent of a Sky mirror subcription - I could have two TVDrives with the boxes coming free of charge. This has the advantage of independent watching of programmes in each room, or 6 channels of recording, (not that I'd ever use it) and HD off both boxes. All this on 30 days free trial, send back if unhappy, no questions asked. And I've cut my subscription cost.

Frankly, I bit their hand off. If it's any good I'll keep it and then cancel Sky ( I wonder what they'll offer to keep my custom), if not I'll send it back.

But to be honest, with the amount of HD that is going to be realistically available over the next twelve months I've got nothing to lose.

Even the BBC are saying that their HD broadcasts are only for a one year trial period.

This time next year, if I chose Telewest now, I can always cast around and see what's available. Frankly in 12 months, I think SKY will be wetting themselves to offer packages to tempt me back.

With TVdrive, at least Sky now have realistic competition, which is a good thing as they have had an effective monopoly. This benefits everybody in either better technological innovation or lower prices.

Karma

[KableMan]

Originally Posted by dazzafact

...that telewest is inferior in its quality, mpeg2 and mpeg4; I also think that the majority of its content at the mo is being upscaled from sd...

Hi - it was my understanding that MPEG2 vs MPEG4 was all about improved compression i.e. MPEG4 allows you to further compress the signal without additional loss of quality and not that MPEG4 would produce better pictures than MPEG2? I know that better compression leads to better uncompression and better PQ but that's only if the bandwidth is limited surely? As bandwidth is not an issue for Telewest and MPEG4 is more expensive I figured this is why they've opted for MPEG2 whereas Sky have limited bandwidth at a high price therefore they've opted for MPEG4...? Or am I missing something? Also isn't it likely that Telewest will be able to achieve a higher transmission rate via cable and doesn't this also affect the PQ too?

The lack of content was making me question the merits of the TVDrive - I'd not considered it as the poor quality option though until now - hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me out there can give some advice? Also the upscaled SD is the same for Sky - even Sky One will have mixed SD and HD programmes as they don't have enough HD and so far reports suggest the upscaled SD on the TVDrive via HDMI is upto DVD quality which ain't bad.

Also the BBC HD Channel will be available soon and I'm sure ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 will want to cash in on the trial this year too, and Telewest plan on running all the free HD channels alongside its Teleport service (for individual HD programmes) so this will increase the content plus it'll have HD movies available too. So things aren't looking too shabby.

Plus, and its a big one, the TVDrive package is very cheap: Minimum TV package is £5.50 (for 40+ channels including Sky One) + £15 for TVDrive (including Teleport which covers the auto-recorded BBC channels, HDTV and HD Movies + pay per view) + £0 for the 3 tuner 160GB PVR with HDMI = £20.50 I also have 2MB broadband + phone too... I think I'm convincing myself

So what do Sky have content wise? Sky One HD BUT I've seen everything already - Battlestar Galactica, Stargate, 24 (I'm watching it in pretty fine looking divx from HD right now ahead of sky), Over There, 4400. Everything else I watch that I don't download is on freeview so if it makes it to HD it'll be free too.

That leaves the discovery channel and national geographic which offer very nice eye candy but anything they can do the BBC can do better - Planet Earth in HD very soon too for free plus their back catalogue no doubt much of which has been filmed in HD already.

So what's left Movies - well I don't know about you but I'm planning on getting myself a HD-DVD player (we'll grow old waiting on blu-ray as it'll take Sony an age to lock down the copyright protection to its satisfaction) for movies and any I fancy watching meanwhile will be pay per view on Telewest as well as Sky Movies. That leaves sport well i'm not a football fan so I'm not too fussed about Sky Sports but I do love to watch the World Cup and Wimbledon oh and the Olympics all of which will be in HD care of the BBC again. Not all the footy mind but enough to get my HD fix with and Wimbledon will be very nice indeed.

Finally there's Artsworld HD please!!

So unless MPEG4 is something very special compared to MPEG2 I think my mind is now made up. The content isn't significant enough for me to justify the £300 start-up price plus the monthly subscription for Sky. I was also expecting a 300GB HDD for that but it's only going to include the 160GB drive like in the TVDrive. Of course if you have no choice... or money is no object then Sky's the one (and yes I know the "everyone with a big telly is rich" argument and shouldn't therefore scrimp on their setup - but I can afford my lovely 50" screen because I don't waste my money elsewhere ).

Cheers
KableMan

[meltonboy]

I live in a TW area, but cant have a dish on my block, so no choice for me...

Otherwise i would have waited to compare content. Althought the sky deal looks pretty expensive in camparison, i might have gone for it if various HD channels were only via sky (like sky one or sports).

There have been many postings on this subject and we believe that eventually TW will have the same, but as yet we don't know.

The current content on TW doesn't justify going for TW on its own, but now that sky have published costs, there is more of a comparison.

[Mike_CA]

Originally Posted by KableMan

Hi - it was my understanding that MPEG2 vs MPEG4 was all about improved compression i.e. MPEG4 allows you to further compress the signal without additional loss of quality and not that MPEG4 would produce better pictures than MPEG2? I know that better compression leads to better uncompression and better PQ but that's only if the bandwidth is limited surely? As bandwidth is not an issue for Telewest and MPEG4 is more expensive I figured this is why they've opted for MPEG2 whereas Sky have limited bandwidth at a high price therefore they've opted for MPEG4...? Or am I missing something? Also isn't it likely that Telewest will be able to achieve a higher transmission rate via cable and doesn't this also affect the PQ too?

It is generally considered that MPEG2 does a slightly better job as far as PQ than MPEG4. But the difference is very small. The biggest issue with MPEG4 is the possibility of teething problems. In the US, SAT companies recently started implemented MPEG4 to reduce bandwidth usage in selected areas. There has been a small amount of problems and some schedules have been rolled back. I don't think it is a big issue but the SAT companies want to make sure that everything is 100% correct before implementing it nationwide.

[RyanK]

Easy

Pro. Already have Sky+ so upgrading to SkyHD is no problem

Con. I have no cable in my area so Telewest isn`t an option

[wandersen]

Ummm ... bandwidth is a huge issue for telewest. Sky have far more bandwidth to play with via Satellite.

I think the question is whether you want the cheapest or the best. Telewest is cheaper - but has not even announced a single HD channel as yet. Everything is VOD, which you have to pay for anyway !

[alistaln]

Originally Posted by Karma

They came back with the answer that for £10 extra a month - the equivalent of a Sky mirror subcription - I could have two TVDrives with the boxes coming free of charge. This has the advantage of independent watching of programmes in each room, or 6 channels of recording, (not that I'd ever use it) and HD off both boxes. All this on 30 days free trial, send back if unhappy, no questions asked. And I've cut my subscription cost.

This sounds very interesting Karma - let us know how you get on. I'm a Sky man through and through (I used to be NTL many years ago), but as I live at the top of a set of apartments - Telewest can't actually help me at the moment

[MKRich]

IMO TVdrive is about as competitve as OnDigital was to Sky.

You will still have to pay subs on the TVDrive if you want to see any sport in HD and that is if they can even get it at all! How many films do they currently have in total on the TV Drive, 1 or 2??? sky will have more than that every day!

Sky one HD will more than likely show all their current shows in HD so if you want to see 24, BSG, stargate Atlantis etc on the TV Drive you will need that (more subs probably)

Sky actually produce their own shows so expect all the sky shows to be in HD before long if not straight away. What do Telewest produce?

Don't get me wrong I understand the price factor and for some Sky is simply too much, but IMO there is no comparison between the two, Sky will offer the best option for amount of HD content at launch and I only expect the gap will get bigger between the two, but don't get me wrong you'll pay for it Thats why it is a "premium" product.

I mean other than the BBC trial and the odd pay per view offering what exactly are Telewest planning to show on the TVDrive in HD?

[KevinPedrick]

Telewest do produce shows. They produce the suite of UK channels, Living TV and Bravo and likely some others I can't remember. Boston Legal is one of my favourite shows, the Mrs loves Will and Grace and Charmed is pretty popular but not my thing.

Personally I think Sky's channels, especially Sky One are rubbish. The only thing on Sky One I watch is Simpsons and Futurama. I much prefer Channel 4's offerings such as Lost, Desperate Housewives and West Wing. I hope Channel 4 offer some HD as for Sky's if it never reaches Telewest I won't miss it.

I would never subscribe to the movie channels, I much prefer the pay-per-view style. Telewest negotiate their own deals for pay-per-view movies and the Teleport service is far superior with much more content and better functionality than Box Office.

[silkyandy x]

In my area it is NTL for cable. DO they offer a similar service to telewest? I also heard that the bitrate is differesnt between telewest and sky with sky being higher - how will this effect the PQ?

[MKRich]

When I say produce I mean actually make the programme rather than buy the rights off of the original programme maker.

I personally love sports so sports HD is a main selling point, I agree Channel 4/E4 have the pick of the US shows but I will have those as well as all the other shows with Sky HD.

Can't comment on the PPV as I have never seen the TV Drive but currently is there still only 1 or 2 HD films available? Not exactly good is it?

My real point with the TVDrive is whilst Sky have announced a limited startup schedule, Telewest have virtually nothing at all, they are pretty much completely reliant on other broadcasters releasing FTA HD channels or paying Sky for the use of their HD channels (which means those dreaded subs Telewest Fans hate so much ) it is all well and good sitting and hoping for channels to come out but if like me you don't like waiting and have no reason to wait there really is no option.

[Shimmyhill]

Having tried and failed to price it up on the TW site.

How much is the full TW pack with sports + movies (the same as Sky for £42.50)

[MKRich]

Originally Posted by silkyandy x

I also heard that the bitrate is differesnt between telewest and sky with sky being higher - how will this effect the PQ?

This is speculation at present, the assumption has been made that because Sky are using a more efficient compression format that they can show higher bitrates comparitively to Telewest, no-one AFAIK has any proof of this as of yet.

[gerbilly]

I think that is just wishful thinking to keep this Sky Boy from getting too upset.
I have recently just replaced my Pace PVR3 Sky+ box with Telewest new TV Drive. As a result as I have Telewest Broadband and phone I am saving enough to get Setanta tv with my package. Being scottish it is more than likely it will be only English football on HD apart from the world cup for which Telewest will also receive. It is nothing more than wishful thinking to say that Telewest will not get access to the SKY HD channels which I think will be no more than 10. They may not be in the initial up take of these channels but they will eventually receive these channels before the year is out.

I have had both sky+ for over 4 years and I have to say as a PVR the TV Drive is better and more stable and reliable, this opinion may change over time but at the moment I think it is better. The HD Sky box is still going to have only the 2 tuners so already on that front the TV drive is a winner.
Sky customers will benefit for a period with more HD content however they are paying a pretty penny for this with the increase in subs and the cost of the box.
The arguements over PQ i think are negilgable as there will be other factors affecting PQ like the make and brand of your TV. At the moment the telewest option is a no brainer it is a better PVR and wont cost a great deal. It is whether you want to wait until Telewest gets more HD which I think is the important decision for those who have the option.

To close I think MK Don view is extremely biased and not based on any knowledge of the two packages being offered.

[KevinPedrick]

NTL and Telewest are now the same corporate entities (inc. Virgin Mobile) and likely soon to become the same cable provider.

I'm not sure bit rates between Satellite and Cable can be easily compared they are very different. The cable provides 10Mb internet and Telephone services and even offers uploads of information, hence the rather excellent Teleport service which the Sky service cannot. I've not heard of Telewest running into bandwidth issues and I had thought Telewest chose MPEG2 over MPEG4 cause even though MPEG4 offers better bandwidth efficiency this is not of huge concern to Telewest and MPEG2 is cheaper (not sure on this).

[KevinPedrick]

Originally Posted by mkdon77

When I say produce I mean actually make the programme rather than buy the rights off of the original programme maker.

I personally love sports so sports HD is a main selling point, I agree Channel 4/E4 have the pick of the US shows but I will have those as well as all the other shows with Sky HD.

Can't comment on the PPV as I have never seen the TV Drive but currently is there still only 1 or 2 HD films available? Not exactly good is it?

My real point with the TVDrive is whilst Sky have announced a limited startup schedule, Telewest have virtually nothing at all, they are pretty much completely reliant on other broadcasters releasing FTA HD channels or paying Sky for the use of their HD channels (which means those dreaded subs Telewest Fans hate so much ) it is all well and good sitting and hoping for channels to come out but if like me you don't like waiting and have no reason to wait there really is no option.

Agreed, Sky is probably better for the sports fan.

Telewest own and operate the channels I listed earlier and these channels do make their own shows, such as recently Wogan Now and Then!

The only homemade Sky programmes I know of is terrible docu-opinions of reality TV stars and Telewest manage their own versions of those such as Jade's Salon (I was never gonna watch that!!!).

HD films are trickling in very slowly (1 so far!) and its a shame Sin City didn't stay up for longer. Apparently Hitchhikers is soon and no doubt more to follow. HD films rights are no doubt expensive so I guess the availability will be limited until more of the UK is HD ready, and I'd expect the same situation from Sky. The HD movie channels that appear on the Sky guide are they actually showing HD movies or upscaled..?

Some of the HD content available via Teleport's TV on demand (sky customers aren't likely to know anything about TV on demand, best google it ) is very entertaining and I'm very much enjoying it! Pride was good, blue planet (although not true HD0 is good and I'm looking forward to Discovery/BBC's Supervolcano sometime this week!

[MKRich]

Originally Posted by gerbilly

I think that is just wishful thinking to keep this Sky Boy from getting too upset.

To close I think MK Don view is extremely biased and not based on any knowledge of the two packages being offered.

Nice isn't it when people resort to being rude when having a discussion. ( if I was a tit for tat kind of guy I would put it down to you being scottish but i'm not so I won't )

Please explain to me where my view of the current offering of the TV Drive is incorrect? All I have stated is that the Telewest HD offering is very poor at present and whilst you may get it cheap what is the point of having a HD box with no HD content to watch! yes I do prefer Sky, that is because I generally prefer "the best" rather than "the cheapest"

Kevin Pendrick:

You are right, I forgot about the recent wogan shows and the like, I stand corrected You are also correct a some of skys stuff is not so good, they do have things like Soccer Am, Dream team etc which again isn't for everyone but my point is Sky are IMO in a different league financially in broadcasting terms than Telewest, whilst they offer an alternative IMO it is not at the same level, so basically you get what you pay for, if you are happy with what Telewest have to offer then go with them! I am not so I go with Sky!

[gerbilly]

I have had Sky+ for the last 4/5 years mate and was an early user of Sky+.
I can assure mate that the TV Drive box is a far better PVR.
You are saying that the Sky HD box is better even though you have not seen it working, and you are saying the TV Drive is not a challenge to the Sky box even though you havent seen it working either.
Not very sensible is it.?

The only part of your rant that is accurate is that for a short time Sky users will have more HD content, however this in the the next year will also be available to Telewest customers.

It is up to everyone else what they want to do ie. go with Sky or go with Telewest, however I wouldnt listen to your views mate as you have seen neither box in action.

[Tarbat]

Originally Posted by gerbilly

IThe only part of your rant that is accurate is that for a short time Sky users will have more HD content, however this in the the next year will also be available to Telewest customers.

Where's the announcement from Telewest stating this?

[gerbilly]

One word of caution Thomson are making the new Sky HD box and there record with the Sky 160 Box is hardly sparkling is it????

[gerbilly]

Originally Posted by cjgpers

Where's the announcement from Telewest stating this?

There is none mate, but it will happen as Sky will need the funds that will come from there sale. Just like all the other sky channels that are available on Telewest.

[MKRich]

Originally Posted by gerbilly

I have had Sky+ for the last 4/5 years mate and was an early user of Sky+.
I can assure mate that the TV Drive box is a far better PVR.
You are saying that the Sky HD box is better even though you have not seen it working, and you are saying the TV Drive is not a challenge to the Sky box even though you havent seen it working either.
Not very sensible is it.?

The only part of your rant that is accurate is that for a short time Sky users will have more HD content, however this in the the next year will also be available to Telewest customers.

It is up to everyone else what they want to do ie. go with Sky or go with Telewest, however I wouldnt listen to your views mate as you have seen neither box in action.

Not comparing the box merits at all OP was asking about Sky HD and Telewest HD not PVR functionailty, I will take your word for it on that as I have never seen a TV Drive, I for one am perfectly happy with Sky +, I see no reason that Sky HD + will be any worse.

My comments have only ever been about the choice of HD programming available, whilst still limited Sky have lots on offer at launch compared to Telewest and for that I am willing to pay the premium price for it.

I agree with you that no-one should listen to me when making their decision, I take it we are all grown up enough to make our own decisions, I am merely offering my opinion, not trying to start an argument.

As for your rant comment, well I will leave it up to everyone else to judge, the only one ranting appears to be you

[wandersen]

Originally Posted by KevinPedrick

Telewest do produce shows. They produce the suite of UK channels, Living TV and Bravo and likely some others I can't remember. Boston Legal is one of my favourite shows, the Mrs loves Will and Grace and Charmed is pretty popular but not my thing.

No they don't - this company was sold off about two years ago.