[dkronik]

Guys - Based on the negative feedback I have been seeing with regards to the quality of SD and Cable TV broadcasts on the Panny G10.....should I purchase the OPPO DV-983H DVD player to upscale the TV broadcasts on the Panny G10 to improve the picture quality? I would like to know if this makes sense as the OPPO has excellent scaling performance. If no, please recommend a solution to improve SD TV broadcasts on the G10.

Many thanks....

Clint

[Avi]

Originally Posted by dkronik

Guys - Based on the negative feedback I have been seeing with regards to the quality of SD and Cable TV broadcasts on the Panny G10.....should I purchase the OPPO DV-983H DVD player to upscale the TV broadcasts on the Panny G10 to improve the picture quality? I would like to know if this makes sense as the OPPO has excellent scaling performance. If no, please recommend a solution to improve SD TV broadcasts on the G10.

Many thanks....

Clint

The Oppo 983 is a universal DVD player it doesn't do anything with regard to broadcast TV, Sat etc .

AVI

[dkronik]

AVI:

I know it's a DVD player. I have digital cableTV service and I read where the signal is passed through the OPPO DVD player which would then upscale it to 1080p (Using the Oppo's superior scaler) thus providing better SD PQ on the Panny G10. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this solution is incorrect can you recommend something better?

Regards,
Clint

[Avi]

Originally Posted by dkronik

AVI:

I know it's a DVD player. I have digital cableTV service and I read where the signal is passed through the OPPO DVD player which would then upscale it to 1080p (Using the Oppo's superior scaler) thus providing better SD PQ on the Panny G10. Please correct me if I am wrong. If this solution is incorrect can you recommend something better?

Regards,
Clint

Clint

The 983 has no facility to input a live broadcast signal. You can possibly record and store broadcast TV data in a format/medium/size that the 983 supports and playback the recorded image. Is this what you mean as opposed to live broadcast ?

AVI

[Barcoing Mad]

I don't think the 983 has any video inputs.

[dkronik]

AVI - Thanks again for your prompt response. I thought the OPPO DVD player had a facility to input a live broadcast signal. Now with that out of the way, what solution is there for me to upscale my live cableTV broadcast to 1080P to improve the PQ on the G10? If yes, can you list the best hardware option currently available to achieve this.

Many thanks....

Regards,
Clint

[Avi]

Originally Posted by dkronik

AVI - Thanks again for your prompt response. I thought the OPPO DVD player had a facility to input a live broadcast signal. Now with that out of the way, what solution is there for me to upscale my live cableTV broadcast to 1080P to improve the PQ on the G10? If yes, can you list the best hardware option currently available to achieve this.

Many thanks....

Regards,
Clint

Video processors or AV recievers have the facility to process live broadcast TV. If you want a product that uses the same ABT2010 silicon as the 983 then options include the DVDO Edge/Duo video processors and some current models of Denon and Yamaha AV receivers.

AVI

[dkronik]

AVI:

In your opinion which is the least expensive product with regards to price/performance for viewing live broadcastTV/CableTV on the G10? The DVDO video processor is $US1200.00 - quite an expensive solution just to upscale broadcastTV/CableTV.

Regards,
Clint Samuel

[Avi]

Originally Posted by dkronik

AVI:

In your opinion which is the least expensive product with regards to price/performance for viewing live broadcastTV/CableTV on the G10? The DVDO video processor is $US1200.00 - quite an expensive solution just to upscale broadcastTV/CableTV.

Regards,
Clint Samuel

It really depends on what level performance you require, the connection type to your source/display and the output options from the source.

For example if using HDMI/DVI does you broadcast/cable box provide an interlaced signal over HDMI/DVI ? If not you're stuck with how well the source box deinterlaces unless some form of progressive reprocessing is performed. PReP is a feature available on the DVDO Edge for example and this is around US$600 and about the cheapest solution to employ PReP.

AVI

[dkronik]

AVI:

The cable box is a MOTOROLA DCT700-MX2. I have attached a photo of
the cable box for you to see the available output options from the source. Hopefully this helps with your recommendations. Based on this, do you still recommend the EDGE?

Regards,
Clint Samuel

[choddo2006]

Wow, has it really only got composite video out? No s-video or HDMI? Can you get an upgrade on that box? I think the EDGE, while good, is going to be overkill until you can get a decent signal into it. And it may be that you can get a good enough picture without it, just by moving up from composite (although the G10 really does seem to do some odd things to SD signals - assuming it's the same with 480i as it is with 576i European signals, which are the only screenshots I've seen)

[Liam @ Prog AV]

I'm afraid that's how much a good picture costs! As AVI suggested further up, you might want to think outside the box and get yourself an AV Receiver with an ABT2010 chip inside it (better Denons and Yamahas are the ones to look at).

[Liam @ Prog AV]

WOW this has been an open window on my desktop for over an hour. New recommendation, get a new cable box.

[jgrg]

Isn't that an analogue cable box? ie: It is like terrestrial analogue TV, but you get more channels because the signal comes down a cable. I once saw analogue NTSC cable TV when visiting a friend in Boston. It was dire!

[dkronik]

So you guys agree that a AV receiver with the ABT2010 chip inside it as the best option? Also I am holding out for HDMI 1.4 so I would have liked to get a video processor in the interim.
Choddo2006: Why do you think the EDGE is overkill for my needs?

Again, many thanks to you guys for providing feedback and guidance on this.

Regards,
Clint

[jgrg]

Originally Posted by dkronik

So you guys agree that a AV receiver with the ABT2010 chip inside it as the best option? Also I am holding out for HDMI 1.4 so I would have liked to get a video processor in the interim.
Choddo2006: Why do you think the EDGE is overkill for my needs?

Don't hold your breath for HDMI 1.4!

Choddo2006 rightly points out that getting a decent TV source will improve you picture more than adding a very good de-interlacer/scaler to a poor source. A digital TV receiver with HDMI output ought to be cheaper.

[choddo2006]

What do you think HDMI 1.4 will give you? I mean, the G10 doesn't have it anyway. The audio back channel and ethernet are nice-to-haves but without the whole system supporting it, and most people already have 1.1 / 1.3 devices in the mix, it'll be a long time before it's taken seriously I think.

I think an EDGE would be overkill right now because your cable box can only output a signal so useless that you're spending $600 to turn complete rubbish into possibly slightly less rubbish. SD will never be stunning but until you get a decent clean signal into the EDGE, you won't get any value out of it.

[dkronik]

Guys - I intend to sell the G10 and purchase a Panasonic HDMI 1.4 3DTV and 1.4 BLURAY when Panny releases the HDMI 1.4 3DTVs next year. That being the case I would still need a solution to improve SD PQ.

Choddo2006: If you were in my position, what would you do or what hardware would you purchase to improve PQ, taking into consideration my cable company's MOTOROLA DCT700-MX2?

Regards,
Clint

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Clint there is no improving that cable image. Well there are very small improvements that won't in any way make up for the nasty feed and nasty connection type. You are basically watching little better than a VHS tape. If you can get digital TV or even HDTV you will immediately reap benefits. You can then consider a DVDO Edge for further improvement.

As for HDMI 1.4 it's your choice but if no Blu-Ray disc or TV service is going to use the added colour depth that even HDMI 1.3 offers for many years I don't think it's something to really be too concerned about!!

[choddo2006]

Originally Posted by dkronik

Guys - I intend to sell the G10 and purchase a Panasonic HDMI 1.4 3DTV and 1.4 BLURAY when Panny releases the HDMI 1.4 3DTVs next year. That being the case I would still need a solution to improve SD PQ.

Choddo2006: If you were in my position, what would you do or what hardware would you purchase to improve PQ, taking into consideration my cable company's MOTOROLA DCT700-MX2?

Regards,
Clint

Personally - I think that 3D stuff is a total and utter gimmick that will die inside 2 years through complete market apathy. It's ok once in a while in the cinema but I for one don't want to be wearing plastic over-specs in my own lounge. That's just my personal view

I don't know enough about cable companies outside the UK to know how to solve the specifics of your situation but I'd have thought your provider could offer a digital service and/or a box with better output options?

[stryker74]

Originally Posted by Liam @ Prog AV

I'm afraid that's how much a good picture costs! As AVI suggested further up, you might want to think outside the box and get yourself an AV Receiver with an ABT2010 chip inside it (better Denons and Yamahas are the ones to look at).

What about also the Onkyo NR906? it have a good video processor (HQV Reon-VX)

[Avi]

Originally Posted by stryker74

What about also the Onkyo NR906? it have a good video processor (HQV Reon-VX)

The IDT Realta and Reon solutions don't have progressive reprocessing. This can be very useful because unfortunately a lot of products don't support an SD interlaced output option over HDMI. This means deinterlacing performance, which is the foundation of SD PQ, is basically governed by the deinterlacing performance of the source box. Even a good downstream processor without some type of progressive reprocessing can't fix issues typically associated with an incorrectly deinterlaced progressive input.

AVI

[spinmar]

Originally Posted by Avi

The IDT Realta and Reon solutions don't have progressive reprocessing. This can be very useful because unfortunately a lot of products don't support an SD interlaced output option over HDMI. This means deinterlacing performance, which is the foundation of SD PQ, is basically governed by the deinterlacing performance of the source box. Even a good downstream processor without some type of progressive reprocessing can't fix issues typically associated with an incorrectly deinterlaced progressive input.

AVI

Ok but what is the difference in the following case?
Suppose that you have a product which doesn't support 576i for hdmi, what is the difference betwwen:
1) Using DVDO preps function using HDMI output from the product;
2) Use scart output from the product and a cable with Scart on the one side and 4 RCA jacks on the other (R,G,B + Sync) and connect it to Lumagen radiance xs(xd/xe).

Is there any difference?
What should be the better configuration?

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally Posted by spinmar

Ok but what is the difference in the following case?
Suppose that you have a product which doesn't support 576i for hdmi, what is the difference betwwen:
1) Using DVDO preps function using HDMI output from the product;
2) Use scart output from the product and a cable with Scart on the one side and 4 RCA jacks on the other (R,G,B + Sync) and connect it to Lumagen radiance xs(xd/xe).

Is there any difference?



What should be the better configuration?

In theory the scart output could look softer. There are many variables though.
While a prep type process may get the signal re-interlaced you may find that the subsequent upscaling may actually make compression artefacts more obvious while removing the occassional de-interlacing error....

Analogue scart output may actually make the visibility of compression artefacts less obvious. I think at this level of discussion we are being really, really picky (which is always good).

[Avi]

Originally Posted by spinmar

Ok but what is the difference in the following case?
Suppose that you have a product which doesn't support 576i for hdmi, what is the difference betwwen:
1) Using DVDO preps function using HDMI output from the product;
2) Use scart output from the product and a cable with Scart on the one side and 4 RCA jacks on the other (R,G,B + Sync) and connect it to Lumagen radiance xs(xd/xe).

Is there any difference?
What should be the better configuration?

I can't speak for the analogue output of every product. But I can say that with a Thomson SkyHD box using any of the analogue connections the image exhibits more noise and is noticeably softer IMO compared to digital. The Radiance will properly deinterlace the unmolested 576 output.

That's just my opinion and some may find the analogue output fine.

AVI

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

In theory the scart output could look softer. There are many variables though.
While a prep type process may get the signal re-interlaced you may find that the subsequent upscaling may actually make compression artefacts more obvious while removing the occassional de-interlacing error....

Analogue scart output may actually make the visibility of compression artefacts less obvious. I think at this level of discussion we are being really, really picky (which is always good).

There is usually some compromise with either solution. I ended up using a DVDO product to PReP the SkyHD signal but the output is 576p unscaled. This is then scaled by the Radiance.

AVI

[jgrg]

I find that compared to HDMI analogue SCART RGB clips highlight detail and introduces quantization errors. This means, for example, that over HDMI the sky and clouds in outdoor shots look smoother and more natural. It is unavoidable that you will loose the fine gradation of colour information as you go through an (unnecessary) digital to analogue to digital conversion.